The real problem with baseball

CommishJoe · 10-06-2009, 12:08 PM

A lot of people point to the product on the field and complain that's the problem with baseball. Teams like the Pirates will never win while teams like the Yankees & Red Sox always seem to be in it. To me, that's not the biggest problem with baseball. This is...

New York Yankees slash premium prices by up to $1,250 - MLB - SI.com

Quote:

The remainder, 1,704 non-premium seats, will increase from $100 to $125.

Every price they mentioned in that article is priced for the rich and famous. I saw my first game at Yankee Stadium in 1975. If I was a kid growing up in NY now, I doubt I'd ever get a chance to see them in Yankee stadium with the prices listed there. The "real" fans of the game are forgotten.

silvam14 · 10-06-2009, 12:18 PM

Wow, That's horrible. I live in Boston and haven't been to Fenway in 3 years. It just isn't financially appetizing anymore no matter how much I love the sox

RchW · 10-06-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

A lot of people point to the product on the field and complain that's the problem with baseball. Teams like the Pirates will never win while teams like the Yankees & Red Sox always seem to be in it. To me, that's not the biggest problem with baseball. This is...

New York Yankees slash premium prices by up to $1,250 - MLB - SI.com

Every price they mentioned in that article is priced for the rich and famous. I saw my first game at Yankee Stadium in 1975. If I was a kid growing up in NY now, I doubt I'd ever get a chance to see them in Yankee stadium with the prices listed there. The "real" fans of the game are forgotten.

This is happening in all sports. Here in Toronto my son has been to two NHL games and maybe 10-15 Raptors games. Baseball is still affordable here, however I don't know if we will have Baseball in 10 years. To me there is an entire generation of kids for whom sports is an abstract pursuit that is not based on live attendance. Couple that with a drop in real income for many people, professional sports may be in for a huge collapse in the future. Where are the fans going to come from? My kids won't be in the market.

Twenty years ago my wife and I shared in two sets of Leafs season tickets. We would go to 15-20 games per year. It was affordable. It's not even close to that now and our salaries have quadrupled.

CMH · 10-06-2009, 12:43 PM

Well, there's a good thing, Joe.

The Yankees are slashing the prices and they are doing it because the fans have spoken.

Yes, it's still ridiculously expensive, but if fans continue to say, "forget it, I'll just watch it on YES," then the Yanks will be forced to continue slashing.

I remember that prior to the season the Yankees defended their prices and said they wouldn't cut them down. Then April came along and they reduced the prices by nearly 50% for most of the expensive seats. Now they are doing it again for 2010?

I hear the playoff tickets are just as expensive as the regular season tickets. That's good news when you really consider the market.

I understand why the Yankees charge so much. They still drew 3 million fans despite not selling out over 70 of their games. It's OOTP strategy here: how much can you charge, not sell out, and still turn a profit?

Russ · 10-06-2009, 12:48 PM

there's a reason Camden Yards is filled with Red Sox and Yankees fans whenever the team comes down here. It's cheaper to pay travel, hotel, and tickets down here than it is to pay to see the teams in their own stadium.

Skipaway · 10-06-2009, 12:54 PM

That's not the problem with baseball. That's the problem with stadium size. When you have limited number of seats with a huge fan base, you just have to use to price to determine who get to see the games.

Skipaway · 10-06-2009, 12:57 PM

And if you consider the ticket price a problem, the solution is to make the fan size smaller and poorer.

Just look at concert ticket prices. Bands with established big older fan base would have much higher ticket prices than new bands with small younger fan base.

CommishJoe · 10-06-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

there's a reason Camden Yards is filled with Red Sox and Yankees fans whenever the team comes down here. It's cheaper to pay travel, hotel, and tickets down here than it is to pay to see the teams in their own stadium.

When I lived in NJ, I'd make yearly trips to Baltimore to see the Yankees play. They have a great ballpark, easy to get to and affordable prices.

It's one of the things I miss the most about living on the east coast.

Le Grande Orange · 10-06-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipaway

That's not the problem with baseball. That's the problem with stadium size. When you have limited number of seats with a huge fan base, you just have to use to price to determine who get to see the games.

It's interesting to note that almost all of the new stadiums built over the last fifteen years or so have had seating capacities lower than the parks they replaced. It seems teams made the conscious choice to build smaller parks so as to reduce supply and thus drive up prices (assuming demand stays the same as it did before the new stadium; in most cases, demand goes up for the first season or two due to the novelty effect of the new park).

gnomez · 10-06-2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

It's interesting to note that almost all of the new stadiums built over the last fifteen years or so have had seating capacities lower than the parks they replaced. It seems teams made the conscious choice to build smaller parks so as to reduce supply and thus drive up prices (assuming demand stays the same as it did before the new stadium; in most cases, demand goes up for the first season or two due to the novelty effect of the new park).

One of the biggest reasons the Cardinals' owners gave for needing a new stadium was that the capacity of Busch Stadium was too small. As soon as they got public funding cemented, they removed 12,000 seats from the designs and doubled the air-conditioned indoor luxury box area. I'm sorry, you just don't go to a stadium to watch the game inside on a TV.

molarmite · 10-06-2009, 02:26 PM

I'm happy Twins tickets are still affordable. Last time I went we got 7 tickets in the Left Field for around $120 which is about $17 per ticket, not bad at all IMO.

canadiancreed · 10-06-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molarmite

I'm happy Twins tickets are still affordable. Last time I went we got 7 tickets in the Left Field for around $120 which is about $17 per ticket, not bad at all IMO.

Wow last time I saw tickets that low was the last Montreal game I did. 10$ for third base line is never a bad time. Better the the 35$ a shot for outfield in Toronto.

eriqjaffe · 10-06-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipaway

That's not the problem with baseball. That's the problem with stadium size. When you have limited number of seats with a huge fan base, you just have to use to price to determine who get to see the games.

The obvious solution, then, is stadiums with infinite capacity!

Skipaway · 10-06-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eriqjaffe

The obvious solution, then, is stadiums with infinite capacity!

That'd be over-planning. Isn't world population under 7 billion?

bababui · 10-06-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

there's a reason Camden Yards is filled with Red Sox and Yankees fans whenever the team comes down here. It's cheaper to pay travel, hotel, and tickets down here than it is to pay to see the teams in their own stadium.

Lets not forget the excellent seafood.

CMH · 10-06-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

Wow last time I saw tickets that low was the last Montreal game I did. 10$ for third base line is never a bad time. Better the the 35$ a shot for outfield in Toronto.

I paid less than 20 bucks for nosebleed seats in Toronto just last month. It was awesome.

bear · 10-06-2009, 06:20 PM

Things have changed from when I was a kid. Although I was a White Sox fan I saw more Cub games back then. At that time the Cubs couldn't draw flies to Wrigley Field and rarely opened the upper deck for their games. If you invested in a general admission ticket, you could stake out a row of seat by sitting in the last seat of that row near left field. When the game ended you would walk down that row and lift each seat in the row. When we all finished up in right filed the head groundskeeper would give everyone a free pass. Got to see unlimited Cub home games as a kid for the price of the first ticket. Buying a hot dog and a pop was the only cost. Saw a lot of baseball back then. After we finished with the seats and got our free passes enough time had elapsed to get down to the players parking lot and plead for autographs. They had finished their showers by then.

bear

canadiancreed · 10-06-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bear

Things have changed from when I was a kid. Although I was a White Sox fan I saw more Cub games back then. At that time the Cubs couldn't draw flies to Wrigley Field and rarely opened the upper deck for their games. If you invested in a general admission ticket, you could stake out a row of seat by sitting in the last seat of that row near left field. When the game ended you would walk down that row and lift each seat in the row. When we all finished up in right filed the head groundskeeper would give everyone a free pass. Got to see unlimited Cub home games as a kid for the price of the first ticket. Buying a hot dog and a pop was the only cost. Saw a lot of baseball back then. After we finished with the seats and got our free passes enough time had elapsed to get down to the players parking lot and plead for autographs. They had finished their showers by then.

bear

Sounds like the last few years when I used to do Montreal games....well other then having to bother with outfield seats (you could pretty much pick whatever seats were free regardless of price.)

Déjà Bru · 10-06-2009, 09:51 PM

It's a matter of supply and demand. As long as they can sell seats at those prices, they will. Fine, let the rich guys go and waste money like that. As somebody said, I'll watch games on YES and actually see the plays instead of the back of somebody's jersey.

canadiancreed · 10-06-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

It's a matter of supply and demand. As long as they can sell seats at those prices, they will. Fine, let the rich guys go and waste money like that. As somebody said, I'll watch games on YES and actually see the plays instead of the back of somebody's jersey.

meh there's something about being at an event as opposed to seeing it on tv, although I've found it applies to sporting and if it's not in HD.

10-06-2009, 12:18 PM	#2
silvam14 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dedham, MA Posts: 9,951	Wow, That's horrible. I live in Boston and haven't been to Fenway in 3 years. It just isn't financially appetizing anymore no matter how much I love the sox __________________ Senior "Nancy Boy" of the OOTP Boards _______________________________________________

10-06-2009, 12:48 PM	#5
Russ All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Essex HON! Posts: 1,923 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	there's a reason Camden Yards is filled with Red Sox and Yankees fans whenever the team comes down here. It's cheaper to pay travel, hotel, and tickets down here than it is to pay to see the teams in their own stadium. __________________ If you don't love Russ, you don't love America. This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

10-06-2009, 12:54 PM	#6
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	That's not the problem with baseball. That's the problem with stadium size. When you have limited number of seats with a huge fan base, you just have to use to price to determine who get to see the games. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

10-06-2009, 12:57 PM	#7
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	And if you consider the ticket price a problem, the solution is to make the fan size smaller and poorer. Just look at concert ticket prices. Bands with established big older fan base would have much higher ticket prices than new bands with small younger fan base. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

10-06-2009, 02:26 PM	#11
molarmite Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 4,920	I'm happy Twins tickets are still affordable. Last time I went we got 7 tickets in the Left Field for around $120 which is about $17 per ticket, not bad at all IMO. __________________ From the wise mind of Davey Eckstein "Now all you need is a signature. A quote or initial, perhaps." [

10-06-2009, 12:43 PM	#4
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	Well, there's a good thing, Joe. The Yankees are slashing the prices and they are doing it because the fans have spoken. Yes, it's still ridiculously expensive, but if fans continue to say, "forget it, I'll just watch it on YES," then the Yanks will be forced to continue slashing. I remember that prior to the season the Yankees defended their prices and said they wouldn't cut them down. Then April came along and they reduced the prices by nearly 50% for most of the expensive seats. Now they are doing it again for 2010? I hear the playoff tickets are just as expensive as the regular season tickets. That's good news when you really consider the market. I understand why the Yankees charge so much. They still drew 3 million fans despite not selling out over 70 of their games. It's OOTP strategy here: how much can you charge, not sell out, and still turn a profit?

10-06-2009, 06:20 PM	#17
bear Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 18,797	Things have changed from when I was a kid. Although I was a White Sox fan I saw more Cub games back then. At that time the Cubs couldn't draw flies to Wrigley Field and rarely opened the upper deck for their games. If you invested in a general admission ticket, you could stake out a row of seat by sitting in the last seat of that row near left field. When the game ended you would walk down that row and lift each seat in the row. When we all finished up in right filed the head groundskeeper would give everyone a free pass. Got to see unlimited Cub home games as a kid for the price of the first ticket. Buying a hot dog and a pop was the only cost. Saw a lot of baseball back then. After we finished with the seats and got our free passes enough time had elapsed to get down to the players parking lot and plead for autographs. They had finished their showers by then. bear __________________ Bear's Unstable UTBA Season Four Gold Conference Central Division Champion First UTBA expansion franchise to win a conference divisional title

10-06-2009, 09:51 PM	#19
Déjà Bru Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Long Island Posts: 11,742	It's a matter of supply and demand. As long as they can sell seats at those prices, they will. Fine, let the rich guys go and waste money like that. As somebody said, I'll watch games on YES and actually see the plays instead of the back of somebody's jersey. __________________ - Bru