HOF or Not????

SandMan · 11-01-2011, 10:36 PM

I just started a new league. 8 years in and I have a couple of players that are leading most of the stats. The problem is they started the league at age 31 and 32. Neither 1 will be able to meet my minimum stats for automatic induction. Here are the stats. Do I elect them in?

Player 1: 1670 hits, .347 Batting average, 2 batting titles, 252 Homers, 5 times all-star. Leads the league at this time in Batting Average, 2nd in home runs.

Player 2: 141-67 record, 3.09 ERA, 3 time Cy Young. Leading all pitchers at this stage of the league in wins.

Neither player has 10 seasons in yet since the league is only 8 years in. Both players are signed through the next season but they are 38 and 39 years old next season.

Player 1 is kind of a cross between Hank Greenberg and Sam Thompson. Player 2 is similar in record to Dizzy Dean or Addie Joss.

olivertheorem · 11-01-2011, 10:56 PM

Personally, I'd be willing to make exceptions for early players in that kind of situation, but to each his own.

Chicagofan76 · 11-02-2011, 05:05 AM

Player 1 yes but not unless he gets the required 10 years

Player 2 borderline but I lean towards yes.

In my fictional Endor League Luke Skywalker only played 6 seasons retired as the #2 in AVG at .354 #1 in HR at 387 #1 in RBI #3 in SB had 2 Triple Crowns 2 time MVP....Which are actually better then my self created #'s for him. In my self created time I had him in the HOF In OOTP 11 he doesnt make the HOF because not enough years played.

Has there been any players in real MLB that played 8-9 seasons, who had HOF #'s who are not in the HOF?

If player 2 can get 15 more wins and 20 more losses in the next 3-4 seasons he is as good as Koufax but has a much higher ERA.

MLHFFYP · 11-02-2011, 10:32 AM

I would say no only because their are minimum requirements and they haven't been met.

In the real life Hall of Fame this kind of things comes up and the result has been that there was a gradual lessening of standards in regards to the election of players.

Bill James did a great job on discussing this in his chapter on Phil Rizzuto in his book on the Hall. He also points out that there are several players who probably got in for other reasons that would not have made it under the original intent.

Frankie Frisch was well known for lobbying for his Cardinal teammates when he was on the committee to review players out of voting years. He was successful in getting some in so he accomplished his personal mission.

My point is that the Hall should be the biggest deal for individual player recognition and I think that the minimum standards have to be met unless there are extraordinary circumstances.

But that is the great thing about OOTP; we can be do what we want and make those things happen.

olivertheorem · 11-02-2011, 10:56 AM

Well, the only exception I would make is for guys who are over 30-ish at the start of a league, or those guys who literally did not have an opportunity to hit the 10-year minimum. And then only if their rate stats warrant inclusion.

SandMan · 11-02-2011, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olivertheorem

Well, the only exception I would make is for guys who are over 30-ish at the start of a league, or those guys who literally did not have an opportunity to hit the 10-year minimum. And then only if their rate stats warrant inclusion.

My thoughts on this also. Both players were over 30 when the league started. They did not have an opportunity. I will only elect these players if they play 10 seasons though.

snepp · 11-02-2011, 02:20 PM

They're league pioneers, minimum requirements go out the window.

Ktulu · 11-02-2011, 03:35 PM

It's really up to you

. It's your HOF, you get to decide what the requirements are. Personally I have no problem putting in early pioneers. One thing I do like to do though is wait a good 25 years before inducting anyone. That let's you get a feel for who is really HOF worthy. Maybe in 25 years you'll find that 2 or 3 MVP/Cy Youngs in an 8-9 year period isn't really that special. Or maybe that will be the only time it's ever been done.

My rule of thumb is to get through the "2nd Generation" of players (first few amateur classes) before I start doing the HOF.

fintach · 11-02-2011, 06:17 PM

You still have two seasons before they reach 10 years (and may get more if they can keep it together past 40). They may make it past a benchmark that makes your life easier. 2000 hits and 300 homers are in reach for Player 1, and those will help. I'm not sure about benchmarks for Player 2, but if he hits 150 or 175 wins (especially if he's got a good lead over #2), that might help.

Either way, I like the idea of holding off for at least ten years. That should give you a better sense or scope for their accomplishments. You might still want to put them in as pioneers (after all, credit should be given to the people who set the records that others will later break), but you might enjoy it more if they turn out to be even more special.

11-02-2011, 03:35 PM	#8
Ktulu Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: BC Posts: 4,506	It's really up to you . It's your HOF, you get to decide what the requirements are. Personally I have no problem putting in early pioneers. One thing I do like to do though is wait a good 25 years before inducting anyone. That let's you get a feel for who is really HOF worthy. Maybe in 25 years you'll find that 2 or 3 MVP/Cy Youngs in an 8-9 year period isn't really that special. Or maybe that will be the only time it's ever been done. My rule of thumb is to get through the "2nd Generation" of players (first few amateur classes) before I start doing the HOF. __________________ "The ice is getting even more thinner, my friend!"

11-02-2011, 06:17 PM	#9
fintach Major Leagues Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 481	You still have two seasons before they reach 10 years (and may get more if they can keep it together past 40). They may make it past a benchmark that makes your life easier. 2000 hits and 300 homers are in reach for Player 1, and those will help. I'm not sure about benchmarks for Player 2, but if he hits 150 or 175 wins (especially if he's got a good lead over #2), that might help. Either way, I like the idea of holding off for at least ten years. That should give you a better sense or scope for their accomplishments. You might still want to put them in as pioneers (after all, credit should be given to the people who set the records that others will later break), but you might enjoy it more if they turn out to be even more special. __________________ Currently managing: The Bridgetown Gruffs History: Portland Purple Knights of the USBL: 1x NL Champs 1970-74 Berkeley Free Radicals of the BBL: 4x Division Title, 3x LCS, 2x Left Coast Cup Champions 2011 Portland River Dragons of the SPL: 1x Division Title 2011 Las Vegas Coyotes (MLB): half season before DH bored me to death.

11-01-2011, 10:36 PM	#1
SandMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,946	HOF or Not???? I just started a new league. 8 years in and I have a couple of players that are leading most of the stats. The problem is they started the league at age 31 and 32. Neither 1 will be able to meet my minimum stats for automatic induction. Here are the stats. Do I elect them in? Player 1: 1670 hits, .347 Batting average, 2 batting titles, 252 Homers, 5 times all-star. Leads the league at this time in Batting Average, 2nd in home runs. Player 2: 141-67 record, 3.09 ERA, 3 time Cy Young. Leading all pitchers at this stage of the league in wins. Neither player has 10 seasons in yet since the league is only 8 years in. Both players are signed through the next season but they are 38 and 39 years old next season. Player 1 is kind of a cross between Hank Greenberg and Sam Thompson. Player 2 is similar in record to Dizzy Dean or Addie Joss. Last edited by SandMan; 11-01-2011 at 10:50 PM.

11-01-2011, 10:56 PM	#2
olivertheorem All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,919	Personally, I'd be willing to make exceptions for early players in that kind of situation, but to each his own.

11-02-2011, 05:05 AM	#3
Chicagofan76 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Diamond, IL Posts: 6,339 Infractions: 2/2 (3)	Player 1 yes but not unless he gets the required 10 years Player 2 borderline but I lean towards yes. In my fictional Endor League Luke Skywalker only played 6 seasons retired as the #2 in AVG at .354 #1 in HR at 387 #1 in RBI #3 in SB had 2 Triple Crowns 2 time MVP....Which are actually better then my self created #'s for him. In my self created time I had him in the HOF In OOTP 11 he doesnt make the HOF because not enough years played. Has there been any players in real MLB that played 8-9 seasons, who had HOF #'s who are not in the HOF? If player 2 can get 15 more wins and 20 more losses in the next 3-4 seasons he is as good as Koufax but has a much higher ERA.

11-02-2011, 10:32 AM	#4
MLHFFYP Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 148	I would say no only because their are minimum requirements and they haven't been met. In the real life Hall of Fame this kind of things comes up and the result has been that there was a gradual lessening of standards in regards to the election of players. Bill James did a great job on discussing this in his chapter on Phil Rizzuto in his book on the Hall. He also points out that there are several players who probably got in for other reasons that would not have made it under the original intent. Frankie Frisch was well known for lobbying for his Cardinal teammates when he was on the committee to review players out of voting years. He was successful in getting some in so he accomplished his personal mission. My point is that the Hall should be the biggest deal for individual player recognition and I think that the minimum standards have to be met unless there are extraordinary circumstances. But that is the great thing about OOTP; we can be do what we want and make those things happen.

11-02-2011, 10:56 AM	#5
olivertheorem All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,919	Well, the only exception I would make is for guys who are over 30-ish at the start of a league, or those guys who literally did not have an opportunity to hit the 10-year minimum. And then only if their rate stats warrant inclusion.

11-02-2011, 02:20 PM	#7
snepp All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,481	They're league pioneers, minimum requirements go out the window.