Platooning outfielders - no, not what you think!

Number4 · 12-26-2014, 06:33 PM

Imagine your best 2 corner outfielders are one guy that could be a good center outfielder as well, the other one is more known for hitting rather than catching balls.

Both players have roughly comparable arms and are more or less equally adept at left and right field.

Wouldn't it make sense to switch the outfielders around depending on the handedness of the batter? For example against lefties you'd expect more balls pulled to right, so you switch the better defender to right field and the other guy to left, reversing against righties.

Thoughts?

BIG17EASY · 12-26-2014, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number4

Imagine your best 2 corner outfielders are one guy that could be a good center outfielder as well, the other one is more known for hitting rather than catching balls.

Both players have roughly comparable arms and are more or less equally adept at left and right field.

Wouldn't it make sense to switch the outfielders around depending on the handedness of the batter? For example against lefties you'd expect more balls pulled to right, so you switch the better defender to right field and the other guy to left, reversing against righties.

Thoughts?

Sure, assuming the hitter is a strict pull hitter and there's a significant difference in the outfielders' defensive abilities. If either of those things isn't true, the risk probably outweighs any type of reward, especially if the hitter is adept at hitting to all fields.

Lockdog · 12-26-2014, 11:50 PM

That seems too tedious. If the upcoming batter is known for being a pull hitter, shift the outfield to the appropriate side.

bwburke94 · 12-27-2014, 02:14 AM

It's been done IRL in the past - this one is a fairly memorable example.

Number4 · 12-28-2014, 10:13 PM

Where is the risk? I don't get it, after all I still have an semi-decent defender in the other field. I've thought about starting a second pitcher in left/right field to always have the platoon advantage, but here the risk may indeed outweigh the reward, except for the very rare two way player.

Where would you play the better defender anyway, left or right? If it is left because more rightys pull the ball there, another reason to switch them around.

Cryomaniac · 12-29-2014, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number4

Where is the risk? I don't get it, after all I still have an semi-decent defender in the other field. I've thought about starting a second pitcher in left/right field to always have the platoon advantage, but here the risk may indeed outweigh the reward, except for the very rare two way player.

Where would you play the better defender anyway, left or right? If it is left because more rightys pull the ball there, another reason to switch them around.

Doing it with pitchers also screws up the "games played" stat in OOTP, because it gives the pitchers multiple games played if they leave the mound to play somewhere else and then come back.

BIG17EASY · 12-29-2014, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number4

Where is the risk? I don't get it, after all I still have an semi-decent defender in the other field. I've thought about starting a second pitcher in left/right field to always have the platoon advantage, but here the risk may indeed outweigh the reward, except for the very rare two way player.

Where would you play the better defender anyway, left or right? If it is left because more rightys pull the ball there, another reason to switch them around.

Better defenders typically play right field because the throw from right field to third base is the toughest throw in the outfield. Of course, if the guy's arm is significantly weaker, then that negates this aspect.

I think you're over-estimating how often right-handed hitters pull the ball. It's not like every righty pulls the ball at least 60 percent of the time.

Number4 · 12-29-2014, 10:07 AM

I know about the arm, but I want to remove it from the equation. Assume it is equal.

2 players,

1st 5/10 OF range, 6/10 OF error, 6/10 OF arm. RF, LF both 6/10
2nd 8/10 OF range, 9/10 OF error, 6/10 OF arm. RF, LF both 10/10

Who do you play in which OF position and would you change them against pull hitters? Imagine it is Game 7 of the WS and you want to get the absolute most of those both players.

jpeters1734 · 12-29-2014, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number4

I know about the arm, but I want to remove it from the equation. Assume it is equal.

2 players,

1st 5/10 OF range, 6/10 OF error, 6/10 OF arm. RF, LF both 6/10
2nd 8/10 OF range, 9/10 OF error, 6/10 OF arm. RF, LF both 10/10

Who do you play in which OF position and would you change them against pull hitters? Imagine it is Game 7 of the WS and you want to get the absolute most of those both players.

If both arms are the same, I'd leave the best defender in LF. When a pull lefty comes to bat, shift the OF right. That leaves the OF with the most range in LF in case of a hit there. When you have a pull righty, leave it normal as the defender with great range will already have it covered.

rpriske · 12-29-2014, 10:56 AM

RF is a more important defensive position than LF, so the better fielder should be there.

That assumes the equal arm because really the best arm should be in right.

jpeters1734 · 12-29-2014, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpriske

RF is a more important defensive position than LF, so the better fielder should be there.

That assumes the equal arm because really the best arm should be in right.

How so if the arm is the same?

MBarrett · 12-29-2014, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

How so if the arm is the same?

Longer throws to 3B & Home.

jpeters1734 · 12-29-2014, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBarrett

Longer throws to 3B & Home.

Longer throws to 3b not home. I get the arm piece but assuming that both arms are the same why do you want a better defender at rf?

Number4 · 12-29-2014, 01:36 PM

There are some parks that want a better defender at certain positions - f.ex fenway park
http://staticd.snippets.com/images/b...enway-park.jpg
has quite a big right field, so there should be a good defender there.

However again, assuming even the left and right outfields are equal, where do you put the defender with the better range? I thought LF, because more rightys pull the ball there, but then again in this specific example the same reasoning might lead me to switch against lefties.

rpriske · 12-29-2014, 01:38 PM

Because right field is a more important defensive position.

Even if the arm is the same, there is more to defense than catching the ball. It is tougher to play right than left because the plays he can make on the infield are (almost) always further away from him. This is more than arm strength, it is also how fast you get to a ball, how well you play balls in the corners, etc.

There is a thing about the defensive spectrum around... let me find it for you...

rpriske · 12-29-2014, 01:42 PM

Here it is: Defensive spectrum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll copy it in here...

Designated hitter – First baseman – Left fielder – Right fielder – Third baseman – Center fielder – Second baseman – Shortstop – Catcher – Pitcher

Including DH is silly and including the Pitcher is misleading, as it includes all 'defensive' parts of the game... like, you know, pitching.

The only position on the field easier to play than LF is 1B.

Not that RF is WAY harder, but it is harder, so you might aw well put the better player there.

Number4 · 12-29-2014, 01:51 PM

Yeah, RF is usually harder, because you need a better arm. Sorry, but the wikipedia article is not going to cut it this time, because I want to know where the better range with equal arms goes and if it makes sense to switch them around.

RchW · 12-29-2014, 02:48 PM

All this talk about arm and RF prompts the question, why has the current consensus best arm never played a game in MLB at the position?

jpeters1734 · 12-29-2014, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

All this talk about arm and RF prompts the question, why has the current consensus best arm never played a game in MLB at the position?

who's that?

BIG17EASY · 12-29-2014, 04:14 PM

You want the better overall defender in right because it's much easier to go first-to-third or home-to-third when the ball is hit to right field. Yes, a stronger arm helps stop runners from doing that, but getting to the ball quickly, fielding it in proper position to throw, taking the right angles all play a factor in that.

A ball hit into the left field corner can be bobbled or kicked around and it's still likely to be a double only and only fast runners will score from first. A ball hit into the corner in right that's bobbled or kicked around will often end up with the batter on third and most runners scoring from first, unless they run like Adam Dunn.

Same applies for runners tagging up and going to third on a fly ball. How many times a year does that happen on fly balls to left? A handful? It happens fairly often (although only prudent with no outs or if the ball is very deep) when the ball his hit to right.

That's why it's important to have your best overall defender in right. It's also why a guy with a great arm may not play right field.

12-26-2014, 06:33 PM	#1
Number4 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 460	Platooning outfielders - no, not what you think! Imagine your best 2 corner outfielders are one guy that could be a good center outfielder as well, the other one is more known for hitting rather than catching balls. Both players have roughly comparable arms and are more or less equally adept at left and right field. Wouldn't it make sense to switch the outfielders around depending on the handedness of the batter? For example against lefties you'd expect more balls pulled to right, so you switch the better defender to right field and the other guy to left, reversing against righties. Thoughts?

12-29-2014, 10:56 AM	#10
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 26,633	RF is a more important defensive position than LF, so the better fielder should be there. That assumes the equal arm because really the best arm should be in right. __________________ Rusty Priske Poet, Canadian, Baseball Fan ````````````````````````````````````````

12-29-2014, 01:36 PM	#14
Number4 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 460	There are some parks that want a better defender at certain positions - f.ex fenway park http://staticd.snippets.com/images/b...enway-park.jpg has quite a big right field, so there should be a good defender there. However again, assuming even the left and right outfields are equal, where do you put the defender with the better range? I thought LF, because more rightys pull the ball there, but then again in this specific example the same reasoning might lead me to switch against lefties. Last edited by Number4; 12-29-2014 at 01:38 PM.

12-29-2014, 01:38 PM	#15
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 26,633	Because right field is a more important defensive position. Even if the arm is the same, there is more to defense than catching the ball. It is tougher to play right than left because the plays he can make on the infield are (almost) always further away from him. This is more than arm strength, it is also how fast you get to a ball, how well you play balls in the corners, etc. There is a thing about the defensive spectrum around... let me find it for you... __________________ Rusty Priske Poet, Canadian, Baseball Fan ````````````````````````````````````````

12-29-2014, 01:42 PM	#16
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 26,633	Here it is: Defensive spectrum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I'll copy it in here... Designated hitter – First baseman – Left fielder – Right fielder – Third baseman – Center fielder – Second baseman – Shortstop – Catcher – Pitcher Including DH is silly and including the Pitcher is misleading, as it includes all 'defensive' parts of the game... like, you know, pitching. The only position on the field easier to play than LF is 1B. Not that RF is WAY harder, but it is harder, so you might aw well put the better player there. __________________ Rusty Priske Poet, Canadian, Baseball Fan ````````````````````````````````````````

12-26-2014, 11:50 PM	#3
Lockdog Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 263	That seems too tedious. If the upcoming batter is known for being a pull hitter, shift the outfield to the appropriate side.

12-27-2014, 02:14 AM	#4
bwburke94 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belchertown, MA, USA Posts: 4,507	It's been done IRL in the past - this one is a fairly memorable example.

12-28-2014, 10:13 PM	#5
Number4 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 460	Where is the risk? I don't get it, after all I still have an semi-decent defender in the other field. I've thought about starting a second pitcher in left/right field to always have the platoon advantage, but here the risk may indeed outweigh the reward, except for the very rare two way player. Where would you play the better defender anyway, left or right? If it is left because more rightys pull the ball there, another reason to switch them around.

12-29-2014, 10:07 AM	#8
Number4 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 460	I know about the arm, but I want to remove it from the equation. Assume it is equal. 2 players, 1st 5/10 OF range, 6/10 OF error, 6/10 OF arm. RF, LF both 6/10 2nd 8/10 OF range, 9/10 OF error, 6/10 OF arm. RF, LF both 10/10 Who do you play in which OF position and would you change them against pull hitters? Imagine it is Game 7 of the WS and you want to get the absolute most of those both players.

12-29-2014, 01:51 PM	#17
Number4 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 460	Yeah, RF is usually harder, because you need a better arm. Sorry, but the wikipedia article is not going to cut it this time, because I want to know where the better range with equal arms goes and if it makes sense to switch them around.

12-29-2014, 02:48 PM	#18
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	All this talk about arm and RF prompts the question, why has the current consensus best arm never played a game in MLB at the position? __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

12-29-2014, 04:14 PM	#20
BIG17EASY Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,291	You want the better overall defender in right because it's much easier to go first-to-third or home-to-third when the ball is hit to right field. Yes, a stronger arm helps stop runners from doing that, but getting to the ball quickly, fielding it in proper position to throw, taking the right angles all play a factor in that. A ball hit into the left field corner can be bobbled or kicked around and it's still likely to be a double only and only fast runners will score from first. A ball hit into the corner in right that's bobbled or kicked around will often end up with the batter on third and most runners scoring from first, unless they run like Adam Dunn. Same applies for runners tagging up and going to third on a fly ball. How many times a year does that happen on fly balls to left? A handful? It happens fairly often (although only prudent with no outs or if the ball is very deep) when the ball his hit to right. That's why it's important to have your best overall defender in right. It's also why a guy with a great arm may not play right field. Last edited by BIG17EASY; 12-29-2014 at 04:16 PM.