For future versions: Analytics Department

[CBeisbol]

From this thread (post 11)

But, if you really want to talk about what breaks front office continuity, in the modern era, it's not having an analytics staff. Every team uses analytics now. And it's not at all modeled in the game (no, having woBA isn't analytics). Of course users are their own analytics staffs. But an analytics staff in the game could do a few things right off the bat:

-Create team specific projections. Right now teams don't make any projections (well, I don't know how AI teams operate, maybe something like a projection). There should be a way I can ask my staff for a projection on a player. Or a team. Or a season. Or how a trade will impact the team. This should work like scouting. The better and more well funded your analytics staff, the more accurate the projections. It's kind of baffling this is not in the game.

-assist with player development. Analytics are remaking baseball players; from launch angles, to pitch repertoires, to defensive positioning. Let the analytics department impact how coaches help players develop. Strong analytic staffs will add onto coaches abilities and weak ones take away. Or, vice-versa. Poor coaches could fail to implement good analytics. A coaching rating could he added: Analytics/Traditional on a coach's willingness to accept that information. Old school users could disable analytics. Or give a minimal budget and hire all traditional coaches.

Should have added

Analytics should also help in-game performance. Teams with strong analytics should be better prepared for their opponents.

Some will say that this shouldn't be added because we don't have the data to say how analytics impacts the game (spoiler: it's killing it ). Well, I'm pretty sure we don't have data for how scouting, or coaching, or managers or morale, or... impact the game either. But we accept those things into OOTP.

It's way past time analytics gets a spot as well

At least projections for players.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

From this thread (post 11)




Should have added

Analytics should also help in-game performance. Teams with strong analytics should be better prepared for their opponents.

Some will say that this shouldn't be added because we don't have the data to say how analytics impacts the game (spoiler: it's killing it ). Well, I'm pretty sure we don't have data for how scouting, or coaching, or managers or morale, or... impact the game either. But we accept those things into OOTP.

It's way past time analytics gets a spot as well

At least projections for players.

I applaud the effort, but good luck getting this to gain traction, lol

[garion333]

Projections is interesting because you're basically asking OOTP Development to be your analytics department and I'm not sure that's a task they're up to. Maybe they are, I don't know. Big ask.

Player development and analytics isn't necessary to be an added part to the game, you can consider it a part of the game already if you imagine it being baked into the Player Development budget. What I think you really want, unless it's minute control of individual player development (ie. launch angles), is for players to develop power a la Lindor. That is something that can probably be more prominent in the game's player creation and development code. Perhaps even a hidden power rating that could develop if fostered by Power Hitting Coaches.

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Analytics should also help in-game performance. Teams with strong analytics should be better prepared for their opponents.

For this I do think you'd have to prove some sort of +$x dollars gives +in-game performance before it could be put into the game. Otherwise you're spit balling. Stuff like personalities work on very small effects that add up across the entire team. Something like budgeting for analytics would likely be a dollar amount, like development. But you'd have to prove somehow teams that spend more on analytics actually win more. Basically, it'd be pay to win, if paying to win with analytics truly exists. Doubt that'll happen.

[dward1]

Player Development as a whole needs to be so much better. Scouting/analytics department/player development can all be massively gamified in a fun way.

You spend a lot on analytics? you get more reliable or quicker info about his spin rates, bat speed, etc which lets you know more reliably their potential. you spend more on player development category velocity, your pitchers are more likely to gain velo (with a slight risk of injury increase), you spend more time on injury prevention you have less time to work on fielding, you spend more on scouts you have a better read on a high schoolers defensive ratings and personality, you spend more on foreign scouts you have better reports on international amateurs, you spend more on catching coaches you have better chance of developing good catchers, etc, etc.

right now this is in the game in an incredibly haphazard way and it could go so much deeper. just copy FM for coaching/development, they really nail that part of the game

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

I applaud the effort, but good luck getting this to gain traction, lol

Maybe

There is a pretty vocal contingent of anti-analytics posters.

Originally Posted by garion333

Projections is interesting because you're basically asking OOTP Development to be your analytics department and I'm not sure that's a task they're up to. Maybe they are, I don't know. Big ask.

But I don't know why people would be opposed to projections. I mean, the game already does pre-season projections and the top 10 (or 20 or whatever it is) hitters and pitchers. It would just be an expanded version of that.

Player development and analytics isn't necessary to be an added part to the game, you can consider it a part of the game already if you imagine it being baked into the Player Development budget.

Fair enough

For this I do think you'd have to prove some sort of +$x dollars gives +in-game performance before it could be put into the game. Otherwise you're spit balling. Stuff like personalities work on very small effects that add up across the entire team. Something like budgeting for analytics would likely be a dollar amount, like development. But you'd have to prove somehow teams that spend more on analytics actually win more. Basically, it'd be pay to win, if paying to win with analytics truly exists. Doubt that'll happen.

No more paying to win than paying for good coaches, scouts, trainers, development, etc helps you win.

Ok, sure, player development encompasses analytics. I can buy that.

Let us hire a Head Baseball Analyst, or whatever, and let it be analogous to scouting and coaching.

Better analysts get us better information about players and help develop better players.

And projections. We should definitely have projections.

[TomVeal]

If I may strike a discordant note, what you're proposing is a simulation of owning a baseball team, which would be interesting but isn't what OOTP is designed to do. The player's role is to look at the information available to him and make decisions on that basis - not to figure out what traits make a top-flight analytics department and how much has to be paid to obtain them.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by TomVeal

If I may strike a discordant note, what you're proposing is a simulation of owning a baseball team, which would be interesting but isn't what OOTP is designed to do. The player's role is to look at the information available to him and make decisions on that basis - not to figure out what traits make a top-flight analytics department and how much has to be paid to obtain them.

That's not at all what I'm asking for. I I have no idea what I posted that you, and the poster who thanked your post, read that gave you that conclusion. I also think you're overestimating, vastly, what owners do.

Simulating making decisions for a baseball team about how to piece together what players is absolutely something that projections would come in handy for. That's why, absolutely with zero doubt, every single team uses them.

So, it's weird that OOTP doesn't incorporate them.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Football Manager gives you an option to have a Data Analytics Team.

Although It can be argued that this is covered within the development & scouting budgets, I wouldn’t mind getting emails updating me about projections and pointing me out to certain advanced stats that I normally wouldn’t go searching for.

[TomVeal]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

That's not at all what I'm asking for. I I have no idea what I posted that you, and the poster who thanked your post, read that gave you that conclusion. I also think you're overestimating, vastly, what owners do.

Simulating making decisions for a baseball team about how to piece together what players is absolutely something that projections would come in handy for. That's why, absolutely with zero doubt, every single team uses them.

So, it's weird that OOTP doesn't incorporate them.

Suppose that the game added an "analytics department". It would then be important for players to figure out how to obtain one that would give the most accurate projections possible. Maybe that could be turned into an interesting game, but the game wouldn't be OOTP.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by TomVeal

Suppose that the game added an "analytics department". It would then be important for players to figure out how to obtain one that would give the most accurate projections possible. Maybe that could be turned into an interesting game, but the game wouldn't be OOTP.

Why wouldn't the game be OOTP if there were an analytics department?

[CurlyKarkovice]

I would like the analytics department staff member as long as they had areas they excelled and areas they lacked like scouts. Like anything it isn't just big budget throws the most money at it and is always more prepared. You build an analytics reputation and the great Department Heads want to be taken seriously or they won't sign with you.

It would be cool to see projections and compare them to year-end stats. Specifically the guys that hit their 1% projection good or bad. Good like 2017 Avi Garcia was a .690 OPS guy but the 8 projections out of 1000 that had him as at .900 ops came true and he ended up going to the all-star game.

Maybe the storyline is the perfect storm of he bought into info from the new robust analytics department, new hitting coach and something else(high babip, adding muscle weight). I know, I know a lot of people hate the storylines and turn them off.

[Brad K]

What's the analytics dept do? Look over the same stuff we do and maybe come up with a different answer? Who are you going to believe? Yourself of the analytics dept?

[PSUColonel]

I’d like to see heat zones for pitchers and hitters...I’d consider that anylitics....but they would also need to have some sort of meaningful impact within OOTP. I don’t think the current game engine would support that...but I could be wrong.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Brad K

What's the analytics dept do? Look over the same stuff we do and maybe come up with a different answer? Who are you going to believe? Yourself of the analytics dept?

That's in the first post

Also, they should create projections if I didn't mention that anywhere else

[TomVeal]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

That's in the first post

Also, they should create projections if I didn't mention that anywhere else

In other words, in that version of OOTP, the objective wouldn't be to identify the players who will take your team to the World Series; it would be to identify the analysts who will tell you who those players are. It might be an interesting game, but somebody could play it without knowing a whit about baseball.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by TomVeal

In other words, in that version of OOTP, the objective wouldn't be to identify the players who will take your team to the World Series; it would be to identify the analysts who will tell you who those players are. It might be an interesting game, but somebody could play it without knowing a whit about baseball.

Why is that different than now?

Identifying the scout that will identify who those players are?

[TomVeal]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Why is that different than now?

Identifying the scout that will identify who those players are?

First of all, scouts - even the ones with supposedly "legendary" ability - aren't all that good at evaluating prospects.

Second, if they were, I'd have the same problem with scouting as with the proposed "analytics department".

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by TomVeal

First of all, scouts - even the ones with supposedly "legendary" ability - aren't all that good at evaluating prospects.

Second, if they were, I'd have the same problem with scouting as with the proposed "analytics department".

Have you considered that, like scouts, the error bars for projections are also very big for prospects, and get smaller as players are more experienced?


*ok, I'll confess, part of the reason I'd like to see projections in the game is so more people might better understand what projections are, and aren't. So when something more important than a baseball sim, say a global pandemic, happens people will better understand it.

[endgame]

>diving...
...............^........

A good share of this may be out of my wheelhouse, but anxious to learn, I'll take a swipe at a couple of Everyday Joe (that'd be me in this instance) questions and/or observations FWIW and thanks in advance to any responses.

1) As a concept, why not? It's a tad intriguing to consider the likes of a scout-free, data only entity, if you will, that presents itself as an investment opportunity. I can embrace that, perhaps more if it should ever flesh out in design.

2) I want to see this conversation universally or at least bilaterally applicable to the fictional genre as well as MLB, but it 'feels' more MLB'ish to me, particularly when discussing projections. I'll tuck a question in here. If player ratings for the 'real life' rosters are developed and assigned utilizing Pecota projections (do I have that right, the name and the relationship), are these same algorithms at work looking at our players' forecasts through Preseason Predictions, Scouting Reports, OSA, etc or does its formula work outside these means and methods? It looks to be much more than written code. It sounds like we're talking about significant statistical comparisons. My goodness, sorry I took such a long way to ask.

3) The complexities of adding placeholder and figurehead roles and functions have numerous opportunities to go wrong, but that may be another thread. Point here is- this is NOT a criticism of the original post's idea -we have existing 'places' that are not fulfilling their potential in the practical, real life, role and function in the game.

An argument is often made that our implementations have been half-thought-out or fleshed out we'll fix it or add to it later, have the bones, stuff. Coaches. Let's have a coach mitigate tougher decisions with a consult, not just a note saying the club's ok boss, nobody is disruptive. So what, really? Charlie, while you're here can you tell me how Homer's going to fair on the road this week against the lefties?

I don't know. Rambling a little there.

and probably the most expected Joe inquiry- not me in this case - uh, what's in it for me and what's it gonna cost me? Do have to learn anything?

[jimmysthebestcop]

Sounds like a great concept. But the game already has several not fully realized concepts

Challenge mode, team chemistry, personality, traits, coaching, stories, owner goals

I would need at least 1 of them to be fully fleshed out and updated for 202x before adding a new concept that will fall into the same trap.

But it's a great idea.