Hey, is this tanking, shrewd managing, or just plain unethical? - Page 8

dkgo · 06-25-2020, 12:21 PM

It's only tanking if they are going up and down leagues each season.

Staying at the bottom is sand-bagging which the game structure encourages.

dkgo · 06-25-2020, 12:21 PM

.

Syd Thrift · 06-25-2020, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

It's only tanking if they are going up and down leagues each season.

Staying at the bottom is sand-bagging which the game structure encourages.

lmfao no it's not. "Sand-bagging" in a way where you pick up a whole bunch of PPs that you eventually spend to create a monster team is exactly tanking. Just because you do it "well" enough that you stay in the bottom league all the time doesn't make it not.

dkgo · 06-25-2020, 12:33 PM

so should everyone be required to spend PPs as soon as they get them?

Orcin · 06-25-2020, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

It's only tanking if they are going up and down leagues each season.

Losing on purpose is tanking, whether it results in a demotion or not.

Syd Thrift · 06-25-2020, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

so should everyone be required to spend PPs as soon as they get them?

So should everyone make up straw men no matter what the post before said?

DonMattingly · 06-25-2020, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

so should everyone be required to spend PPs as soon as they get them?

I don't think so. Especially if there is a high end card you really want and you decide to save for it. I saved for just over one season once so that I could but the Rickey 1985 SE card. I don't think trying to make a few giant improvements is any less valid a strategy than making a lot of small ones.

Or what about people who just don't have a chance to log in at all for weeks at a time? Is that sandbagging too?

I posted some screen shots way back in this thread of what I think a "sand bagger" is. A guy who had only one actual pitcher on his roster, a 99 Maddux. Every other player on his pitching staff was a hitter. That's setting up a staff that is intended to lose as much as possible so as not to advance. But doing it in a way that the Maddux card can rack up a ton of points. The year I was in a league with him that card came within 1 win of winning the pitching Triple Crown.

His lineup had an air-tight defense (to help Maddux I am sure) and also a few stud hitters to rack up hitting awards. I guess he decided even Iron level pitchers would be "too good" with that defense (and offense) behind them and he'd get promoted, so he chose to use hitters to pitch to ensure enough losses. I mean even the starter packs would produce a much better staff than he created.

The overall effect was a team that would never get promoted, yet rack up both hitting and pitching points every year. And they were "good" enough to not have a ridiculously bad winning percentage - a lot of that coming from Maddux.

They actually got in to a tie for a WC spot which is how I noticed them, I thought it was odd that "Ford" was the SP and had such a bad era. Then I saw it wasn't Whitey Ford, it was Mike Ford. His team is at post #56 in this thread.

dkgo · 06-25-2020, 01:46 PM

Pitching position players is obviously way worse than actual pitchers, even iron level ones. If it's against the rules to use them in the lowest level then why are the cards even in the game?

Spieler · 06-25-2020, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

Losing on purpose is tanking, whether it results in a demotion or not.

So a player losing on purpose to prevent a player losing on purpose from losing on purpose, whether it results in a demotion or not, is tanking. Or not. Or...

Dude, I think you are right, I should stay out of these threads. Makes my head hurt... LOL

Orcin · 06-25-2020, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spieler

So a player losing on purpose to prevent a player losing on purpose from losing on purpose, whether it results in a demotion or not, is tanking. Or not. Or...

Dude, I think you are right, I should stay out of these threads. Makes my head hurt... LOL

I think there is an obvious difference between someone losing one series on purpose to screw a tanker, and someone losing on purpose over a course of several weeks (seasons) to gain a competitive advantage. If you can't see that difference, then maybe you should stay out of these threads.

Spieler · 06-25-2020, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

I think there is an obvious difference between someone losing one series on purpose to screw a tanker, and someone losing on purpose over a course of several weeks (seasons) to gain a competitive advantage. If you can't see that difference, then maybe you should stay out of these threads.

Maybe. Or we could just call it vigilantism. Maybe you can see the difference.

DonMattingly · 06-25-2020, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spieler

Maybe. Or we could just call it vigilantism. Maybe you can see the difference.

Which still isn't tanking.

I mean I wouldn't qualify to be a good German by your standards, right?

Spieler · 06-25-2020, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonMattingly

Which still isn't tanking.

I mean I wouldn't qualify to be a good German by your standards, right?

LOL. My point is that there are sheriffs in town and a phone box to report them. No, they don't immediately get the death penalty without a trial. And sometimes they are sneaky and get new identities. If people see them, report them. I am all for that. I just get tired of the constant online witch hunts.

But I do agree that we disagree and I am obviously in the minority here.

ronhatch · 06-26-2020, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonMattingly

I posted some screen shots way back in this thread of what I think a "sand bagger" is. A guy who had only one actual pitcher on his roster, a 99 Maddux. Every other player on his pitching staff was a hitter. That's setting up a staff that is intended to lose as much as possible so as not to advance. But doing it in a way that the Maddux card can rack up a ton of points. The year I was in a league with him that card came within 1 win of winning the pitching Triple Crown.

Sounds very similar to the guy I ran across, actually. The 40 and 41 cards are all pitchers, IIRC... but his "relievers" were position players.

Orcin · 06-29-2020, 07:20 PM

In case you need an explanation.... THIS is tanking. Yes, he's been reported. So what?

Name: tanker.jpg
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pstrickert · 06-29-2020, 07:49 PM

It would appear that the NC DINOS (jok3r) still have not been banned.

Syd Thrift · 06-29-2020, 07:58 PM

Yeah, like I said early on, the chances are just too high for a non-cheater to have to face one of these jackasses in play. Even when you see someone who is "legit" good at the lower rungs of the league there's always that question. Maybe they'll have fixed this by 22 but I kind of doubt it since it appears to be an issue with the admins deciding there's no issue and then glad-handling the people who complain.

It's weird, too, because this will also dissuade whales. Why spend money to get ahead when you can just cheat?

bwiese3908 · 06-29-2020, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Yeah, like I said early on, the chances are just too high for a non-cheater to have to face one of these jackasses in play. Even when you see someone who is "legit" good at the lower rungs of the league there's always that question. Maybe they'll have fixed this by 22 but I kind of doubt it since it appears to be an issue with the admins deciding there's no issue and then glad-handling the people who complain.

It's weird, too, because this will also dissuade whales. Why spend money to get ahead when you can just cheat?

Whales are whales because they drop the money... Time is more valuable than money to them. A whale will drop $5k before they purposely lose 3 seasons in a row to win a pittance of perfect points.

You all have to remember, the big payday is PLAYING a tanking team, being a tanking team is way less PP due to the time they need to lose.

LET THEM PLAY!

Orcin · 06-29-2020, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwiese3908

You all have to remember, the big payday is PLAYING a tanking team, being a tanking team is way less PP due to the time they need to lose.

LET THEM PLAY!

Don't worry, no one is stopping them. Now 1-21.

Tinkerman · 06-30-2020, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwiese3908

You all have to remember, the big payday is PLAYING a tanking team, being a tanking team is way less PP due to the time they need to lose.!

Yeah, it's since I got a decent understanding of this that tanking REALLY started to offend me, actually.

The fact it adds more disparity to the game is my number 1 reason for stamping it out.

Maybe I'm just bitter because I've NEVER encountered a proper tanker?

06-25-2020, 12:21 PM	#142
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	. Last edited by dkgo; 06-25-2020 at 12:23 PM. Reason: double posted

06-25-2020, 12:21 PM	#141
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	It's only tanking if they are going up and down leagues each season. Staying at the bottom is sand-bagging which the game structure encourages.

06-25-2020, 12:33 PM	#144
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	so should everyone be required to spend PPs as soon as they get them?

06-25-2020, 01:46 PM	#148
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	Pitching position players is obviously way worse than actual pitchers, even iron level ones. If it's against the rules to use them in the lowest level then why are the cards even in the game?

06-29-2020, 07:20 PM	#155
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,849	In case you need an explanation.... THIS is tanking. Yes, he's been reported. So what?

06-29-2020, 07:49 PM	#156
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16,435	It would appear that the NC DINOS (jok3r) still have not been banned.