http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...aft-issue.html

Saw someone post this and I figured I'd copy it here to make sure Spritze saw it.

I'm not on my PC right now so I can't test this myself with the latest patch and historical database that Markus linked to.

100 year old players
 

Hi,

I created a fictional league with 16 teams from the 20's and 30's. I chose 1927 as the era. Turned off trading, free agents, no minors etc as I just want to play a season's worth of games. Looked at the rosters and notice every player is at least 100 years old. And they do look every bit of 100 years old. I've attached a screen shot.

Any ideas? Something I did or didn't do? Bug? I'm thinking this won't affect the game play but I'm not sure.

Thanks.

I'm thinking it might make for a lot of interesting injuries like broken hips and what have you. ;) :D :laugh:

Only one J.T. Snow in the database.

Thanks again for the response. I started another 1994 league and same duplicate Snows and Surhoffs. In a 2001 league I just started there were duplicate JT Snow, JD Drew and AJ Burnetts (with and without periods) but one BJ Surhoff this time, also one CC Sabathia,and AJ Pierzynski. Similar to before, is this a possible program importing issue?

Possible but OOTP is supposed to ignore name differences and go by the player Id. There are a great many players with slightly different names in the old Lahman and the new BBref player databases but I hope OOTP is not trying to match names. I sent this to Markus as it was handled earlier in beta. I still have not seen this in any of my tests and I've been looking.

Thanks for the fielding upgrades in the historical database Spritze. :thumbup1: Andrelton Simmons looks like...Well, Andrelton Simmons again.

I gotta ask something though. The Real Stats Fielding Stats have had their innings updated appropriately, but not the Neutralized Stats Fielding Stats. For example, Eric Hosmer has 1354.0 Innings Played in Real Stats and 451.1 Innings Played in Neutralized Stats. Same old bugaboo with the Innings Played vs Innings Played Outs thing. Would it be possible to get that fixed in the future?

I realize it's a cosmetic issue if one is playing a straight historical in 2015 with Neutered Stats, but I would think it would be more than cosmetic if one was to play random debut with Neutered Stats (like I do). I would think it would tend to give 2015 players in a random debut incredible range and they'd make an incredible amount of errors because those totals remain the same, but they happen in one third of the innings that they really did, if you get what I mean.

Thanks for your time and efforts Sir Spritze.

Fielding innings are not used in ratings because they are not real for most of baseball history although I am sure somebody somewhere I adding them up but I'll fix them neutralizationally speaking.

Done. Be in next Build.

Still incorrect in the latest release.

Have I ever told you that you're the best? Because you are. Thanks.

What's used instead of fielding innings Spritze? Games?

Thanks, I'll report it to the bugs forum and upload the league file just in case it is a program issue

So, with the latest patch and the database update that Markus linked to, is now a good time to start a historical game with real minors? I want to start one in say the 50's and then play into the future with the amateur draft enabled.

Is the mode now fully working as intended or should I wait a bit longer? Any more bugs being worked on?

Thanks

This is zero in the database and has always been zero. I do not where the 23 comes from in your game.

Nothing that simple.

The Stats available are POS,G,TC,PO,A,E,DP,PB and Innings for Pitchers.

Many different combos are used depending on the things that the thing being rated depends on.

When real innings exist they can be used but what you see in game are mostly approximations that approximate the innings in question approximately.

So the database is right, but it imported wrong... I guess.

I guess. Is this a new league or something that has been floating at the top of the tank for awhile?

delete

pstrickert, yes, you're correct, I'm using single-season replay mode. So what you're saying is that the real-life records of these teams weren't really indicative of their talent level. I guess I can buy that, though in the case of the White Sox, I think their true talent level was WORSE than their real-life record of 77-77, not BETTER. After all, they were only two years away from the massive roster purge which followed the Black Sox scandal, and the next year, 1923, they lost 85 games ... so were they really better than a 77-win team in 1922? I'm skeptical. But I'll live with it. It's not like the 1922 season is super-important to me; I'm hoping to get into a league that replays all the 1920s seasons, and testing one of the early seasons in the decade was my starting point. Anyway, thanks for your input!

I have two Jim H O'Rourke show up. One has his real life stats as his current stats (Id 217 o'rouji01) He signed on with Baltimore as 3B. The original is playing CF with Baltimore (Id 165 orourji01)

At the 1965 draft with scouting set to 100% accuracy, I'm noticing Reggie Jackson is a 4 star potential player. If we're basing this potential rating of his real life MLB career performance, shouldn't he be 5 stars? I'm not too familiar with initial ratings in historical mode and how they're generated, but I've always assumed that to be the case.

If you subscribe to the Bill James W-L formula, then you may be inclined to attribute (usually a small part of) a team's record to luck -- good or bad. Here's an explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_expectation

Found 65 of these Irishmen who are duplicated due to the ' and 52 with the exact same names but who are different human beings. They will be updated for Update 3.

Simming a historical file with real minors and draft enabled to see results. I Started in 1920 and stopped at 1933 (plan to go to 2016) just to poke around and check a few things.

I noticed Joe DiMaggio was "purchased" by the Phillies organization back in 1931 as a 16 year old and played in the MLB at 17. Shouldn't he have gone into the amateur draft the same as everyone else? Looks like he was never drafted.

2015 Historical, and Pete J O'Brien is 147 years old. I should think he's gonna prone to broken hips and such. :laugh:

I've just realized that it's quite possible that my above post (#225) is covered by Spritze's above post (#223). Please disregard if that's the case. :)

He was probably purchased by the Phillies from the San Francisco Seals, his original historic team. They were an independent unaffiliated team and got to do anything they wanted to back in the day.

2015 Historical, Will Harris (harriwi02) is given the name Willie Harris (harriwi01) and is also given Willie Harris' birthdate.

Makes sense, but with the amateur draft enabled, shouldn't all players generated by the historical database have to go through the draft?

No.

Probably fixed in next build. I'll check when it comes out. I'm 300 miles from my computer right now.

Fixed just now. Wasn't fixed for next build. Now it is.

There are 17 Will or Willie Harris's in the DB and a gianter bunch of William's and Bill's as well.

Looking through past draft logs in league history, it appears the "ballplayer" players issue is still present. It's throughout many rounds, but here's a screenshot that shows it from 1932. I started the sim in 1920.

"Ballplayer Graham" was the 3rd overall pick..

I'm using the latest patch with the historical database update that Markus linked to.

A question for Spritze, is it worth reporting minor league players that are misidentified by BBref (due to name mispellings,variations or other errors) and thus replicated by OOTP causing them to have multiple entries in the database? Or is that something you wouldn't want to change going forward?

For example, the following 3 are all the same player:

Arthur "Tink" Riviere (rivieti01,rivier001art) - Tink Riviere Minor Leagues Statistics & History | Baseball-Reference.com
A.Reviere, 1924 Houston Buffaloes (revier001a--) - A. Reviere Minor Leagues Statistics & History | Baseball-Reference.com
Reviere, 1925 Dallas Steers (revier001---) - Reviere Minor Leagues Statistics & History | Baseball-Reference.com

See: Tink Riviere to be added to the Buffaloes, The Houston Post. (Houston, Tex.), Vol. 40, No. 53, Ed. 1 Tuesday, May 27, 1924 (The Houston Post. (Houston, Tex.), Vol. 40, No. 53, Ed. 1 Tuesday, May 27, 1924, Sequence: 10 | The Portal to Texas History)

What this means is that if you start in 1924 you would have rookie pitcher "A Reviere" on the Houston Buffaloes and after a year veteran Tink Riviere will populate the White Sox and rookie "Ballplayer" Reviere populates the Dallas Steers...

As you can imagine and just for the 1920s years I am looking at there are many other examples like this.

So what exactly is the "Ballplayer" problem? Just means their first name is currently unknown. Does not mean they were a bad player. 1,743 "Ballplayer"s were combined with other "Ballplayer"s of the same last name and position and birth year who played at the same time. The more unusual the last name the more likely this was to happen.

I change these when they are pointed out. I created a SQL query to update the database to help keep these straight when found. We also have quite a few MLB players Lahman and BBref disagree on.

I doubt this will ever be error free unless we do it ourselves in OOTP. SABR, BBref and Lahman all seem not to care. We do.

Sorry Spritze, I wasn't aware that the "ballplayers" were just players in the database with unknown first names. I thought something was going screwy in the database, especially when I saw one go 3rd overall.

Thanks for clearing that up.

That is awesome and as a historical player I reallly appreciate your response and dedication to building the most historically accurate database possible.

In that case, I will keep posting what I find, either here or in another thread if you prefer (there are going to be quite a few of these historical error cases and I don't want to derail this thread).

Sorry for another post, but I just noticed something and wanted to see if you could clarify again for me.

Dutch Leonard, in real-life according to the database, first appeared in the minor leagues in 1932. Yet in my sim he was drafted in December of 1929 and appeared in a few innings in 1930. Just wondering why that is happening? If 1932 was his first baseball appearance in real life, why is he playing in 1930 in my game?

Thanks

Dutch E Leonard or Dutch H Leonard?

I assume you are talking about this Dutch Leonard (Dutch Leonard Minor Leagues Statistics & History | Baseball-Reference.com). As you can see, he entered the minors in 1930, so I think that explains the draft.

And since you started your sim in 1920, you may also be seeing this Dutch Leonard in your game (Dutch Leonard Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com).

Dutch E Leonard.

Ah, the database in the game had his first season as 1932. Now I'm seeing he played in the minors as early as 1930. Sorry guys, my mistake.

I'm fairly new to historical sims so I'm still learning the ropes.

It's a good question. I don't play with a draft and without the draft I'm guessing that he would normally import in 1932 to Decatur in the IIIL, even though he played for Decatur in 1931 (and other teams), because apparently 1932 was the first year there were affiliations in the IIIL. Which explains why the earlier years aren't shown under the Real Life Stats tab, since OOTP doesn't include the data until there is at least one affiliate.

Denny O'Toole appears twice on the 1973 Chicago White Sox roster.

All the O'anybodys have been fixed. Lahman dropped the ' from the ID's while Bbref uses them. We now adhere to BBref.

J.R. Richard appears twice on the 1973 Houston Astros roster.

Yes, I'm a big fan of Bill James (not that I can claim that I'm an expert on all of his formulas). And I completely agree that a team's won-loss record in a given year is always going to contain a certain element of luck. I just felt, and I still feel, that OOTP's simulation can be off base on certain historical teams, especially since the new version was just released and bugs are still being fixed. My assessment is that the 1922 Chisox were not really a good enough team to win 77 games without a lot of luck ... based on a look at their roster, plus their record the following season, I think they were already enjoying a large helping of luck to win 77 games in 1922. But in the OOTP simulation, they're consistently winning MORE than 77 games, sometimes significantly more. So I think that there are some incorrect ratings on that team. I could be wrong, of course. And like I said before, it's really not that big of a deal. I'm going to do more testing of historical seasons and see what I get. The game is fun, which is the bottom line. But to me, it's more fun if I feel like it's really giving me realistic results.

Lefty Vinci
 

BBref doubled record:

Lefty Vinci (vinci-001lau)
Louis Vinci (vinci-001lou)

Background: Vinci signed with Sacramento (PCL) just prior to the 1924 season. He started the season with Sacramento, was loaned to Shreveport (TL) in mid-June and was called back to Sacramento in late August or September.

Sources: The Seattle Daily Times, 06-19-1924, Page 22 (see below); various Sporting News articles and box scores

Sorry if known, but J D Drew and J.D. Drew were both drafted in 1998 in my historical sim.

Cecil Coombs, Harry Schwab
 

Cecil Coombs (coombce01, coombs001cec)
C. Coombs (coombs001c--)

Harry Schwab (schwab001har)
Schwab (schwab006---)

Background: As confirmed by local press reports, veteran outfielder Cecil Coombs played for Wichita (TL) in 1924 then was hired as player/manager for Marshall (ETXL) in 1925.

If you are wondering why the 2nd Coombs record has him at 1B, it is because Wichita 1b starter Harry Schwab broke his ankle at the start of the 1924 season and Coombs had to fill in. For Harry Schwab playing at Beaumont (TL) in 1925 see below from Dallas Morning News (4-10-25).