Using the Team Draft Budget to set your Markets.
 

This post is the result of a lot of frustration and research. Many thanks to The Wolf for his research, that while used for a different purpose, led me here.

A few of you have already stopped into my "Level Playing Field" dynasty, and I've shared that I was intensely happy with my markets/financial settings due to some great information I've found. Instead of type it to the several posters that have inquired, I'm going to share my findings here.

The base of my findings resulted from this post by The Wolf -- so all credit for the start of this system belongs to him, I just chose to apply the information for a different purpose.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...41-post10.html

I'll also post this short example for a point of reference:

NAME/OOTP MARKET SIZE

New York, NY 10
Los Angeles, CA 10
Chicago, IL 10
San Francisco, CA 10
Dallas, TX 10
Philadelphia, PA 10
Houston, TX 10
Washington, DC 10
Boston, MA 9
Detroit, MI 9
Atlanta, GA 9
Miami, FL 8
Seattle, WA 7
Phoenix, AZ 7
Minneapolis MN 6
San Diego, CA 6
Baltimore, MD 5
St. Louis, MO 5
Tampa, FL 5
Denver, CO 5
Pittsburgh, PA 5
Portland, OR 4
Cleveland, OH 4
Cincinnati, OH 4
Sacramento, CA 4
Riverside, CA 3
Kansas City, MO 3
San Antonio, TX 3
Salt Lake City, UT 3
San Jose, CA 3
Milwaukee, WI 3

OK... so what I did... I inputted my financial settings (Media contract, merchandising, contract levels, etc.) and I did it before anything was set into stone (IE before the league started).

After inputting my settings I went and looked at the financial projections and got:

Average Revenue: $131,568,000
Average Expenses: $22,000,000 (no minors in, yet)
Average PAYROLL: $84,062,000 (caps for a reason)
Average Profit: $25,506,000

Alright, so far so good. This is where it gets tricky. I have a 24 team league. I added the "point scores" from the table above for all 24 of my teams. I then took the Average PAYROLL and multiplied by 24. If its an average, I hypothesized, this is how much money is in play. I then took that total point score (only part I didn't write down, I BELIEVE my total score was 199.) I then took the TOTAL MONEY number and divided it by 199. This gave me the dollar value PER market size point.

I assigned the New York Yankees and Los Angeles Dodgers point scores of *12* where they would normally be a 10, just to simulate the fact that these two squads have more money than everyone else. Anyways... after using this system, this was my budget assigned BEFORE the inaugural, and what the team budgets were AFTER the inaugural once salaries were assigned.

AL:

NYY: $132M/$178.2M
LAA: $110M/$148.5M
CHW: $110M/$148.5M
TEX: $110M/$148.5M
BOS: $110M/$148.5M
DET: $110M/$148.5M
SEA: $77M/$103.95M
MIN: $66M/$89.1M
BAL: $55M/$74.25M
CLE: $55M/$74.25M
KC: $33M/$44.55M
OAK: $33M/$44,55M

NL:

LAD: $132M/$178.2M
CHC: $110M/$148.5M
SF: $110M/$148.5M
NYM: $110M/$148.5M
HOU: $110M/$148.5M
PHI: $110M/$148.5M
WAS: $99M/$133.65M
ATL: $99M/$133.65M
SD: $55M/$74.25M
STL: $55M/$74.25M
PIT: $55M/$74.25M
CIN: $44M/$59.4M

As you can see, the numbers come out identical for all matching markets, the small markets have the little money, and I've got the space at the top I wanted for the Yankees and Dodgers. If I had it to do again, I may even make those 2 squads a 13 or 14, but I digress.

The point was, that if you are using an inaugural draft, you CAN get the market sizes and budgets you want to START the league. Obviously, things will evolve in gameplay, but that it was what we all want anyway. It was important to me, however, to have my markets separated to start...

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I think I explained that fairly well, but of course, if you have questions, feel free. I'm very happy with the results of this, and if it can help someone else get extra enjoyment out of their game, I was more than happy to share it.

Happy OOTPing!

EDIT: I used San Jose for Oakland, sue me. :)

Poster "AC" -- since I know you are going to be using this for a league such as mine, I'm going to go track down my financial settings for you real fast.

Attachment 278134

Those financials were posted by Orcin, and full credit and thanks should go to him. They work masterfully.

I'm terribly impressed by this. It's a clever way to use the information that I compiled, and frankly I wish that I'd thought of it.

I rather think that if you'd wanted the same thing I did with my league, you'd have gotten to it anyways.

Regardless, without your research on this, I'd have never gotten my league setup the way I wanted, and this information would not be available to others.

Take a bow, sir. Your research on this issue (even if it wasn't THIS issue) has improved my enjoyment of the game and especially my league tenfold. Thanks again for taking the time.

Thank YOU for doing this. I'm going to piggyback on YOUR work and thereby increase my enjoyment of OOTP. Good job.

No problem at all. I'd have posted it sooner, but my other posts on the topic were ignored by the majority of the community. If I'd have known so many others wanted it, I'd have posted it sooner.

I hope everyone gets use out of it... when I was first starting my league, I probably took 9 or 10 hours before stumbling upon your post trying edits, owner settings, you name it, I tried it -- to try to get any reasonable facsimile of the real markets. I was going down in flames. Then, I saw your post and said "I wonder if I could use these scores, figure out the total money available, and set my league up."

I seriously hopped out of my chair and danced a jig. Mind you, I'm on medical leave with back issues, and this was terribly painful. Was worth it, though. :)

Regardless, glad I could help even one person get more enjoyment other than myself. That's why I write a dynasty report, and why I'm on this damn site at least 8 hours a day during my recovery. I just love baseball and this game. :)

If you get stuck on anything, don't hesitate to ask... but I think I covered everything to get you to where I am.

I'm sure you gathered, but I used "3" for Oakland and KC. I didn't see a KC setting, so I just gave them the same I was giving Oakland (whose number I got using San Jose, CA.)

Jay:

Quick question. You say:

"After inputting my settings I went and looked at the financial projections and got:

Average Revenue: $131,568,000
Average Expenses: $22,000,000 (no minors in, yet)
Average PAYROLL: $84,062,000 (caps for a reason)
Average Profit: $25,506,000"

After I plug in the team revenue and team expense/salary settings, it tells me to complete the inaugural draft before getting the financial setup and summary projections.

How do you view the projections before the draft?

Thanks again for sharing this.

You view the projections by entering the financials during league creation. So, when you are actually CREATING the league, you'll see the numbers. :)

Here are my team payrolls as of July 3rd of my 1st year:

Attachment 278182

And the budgets just to have them in the same post for easy reference.

Attachment 278183

One thing that I think really should be noted is that using this system, you can really have a lot more freedom in ANY league, not just a historical league -- as long as you start it with in an inaugural draft.

I know this is not an ideal option for EVERYONE, but for most of us playing fictional leagues, who DOESN'T sim out the initial run of players in the first place? Even if I'm starting my league with no history, I'm running at least 20-25 years and THEN nuking the history.

In a true historical setting, you won't need to use the settings as your rosters are already set!

Also, for fictional players designing their own worlds, this enables you to have an owner with a lot more money, while editing their market size to be smaller. (NOTE: I have not tested this, its just an educated hunch.)

Regardless of if that hunch is right, it does give you a lot more room in designing a league in Middle Earth, and having Mordor have infinite resources, for example. :D The Yankees and the Dodgers are a prime example in my scenario that I was able to give them more money if I wanted, and its money they keep. I just don't know how their market size is going to react going forward in the other example if you edit it...

An example of a solid trade through the financials was recent in my dynasty. Minnesota went into rebuild mode in June (they now sit at 21-58.) They traded Ken Caminiti at 35 making $14,000,000 in the last year of his deal and $3,000,000 in cash to cover part of the salary dump, and received two prospects in return, one a 3.5 * and the other is a 1*.

They traded him to the Angels, a large market team. LA inked the 35 year old to a 2 year contract extension for $20M total shortly after. With the acquisition, the Angels are still $35M under budget.

So, the Twins got two prospects and some financial relief for the rest of the year, and LA got a starting third baseman and the inked him to an extension that was fiscally responsible.

Caminiti is the 5th overall in the Positional Strength Report.

I love that you mentioned Mordor and the Yankees back to back.

And not even intentionally... it just flowed so nicely on the screen... lmfao

Sigmund Freud: "There are no accidents."

How much are the superstar players making? Having alot of trouble getting a handful of players close to $25m per year.

Well, I'll grab a screenshot. But, I know Honus Wagner at 33 years old just signed a 2 year extension with Chicago for $22M a year per.

What do you have your "Super Star" player salary set at? Mine is set at $18,000,000.

EDIT: Here's everyone above the $20M mark.

1 Honus Wagner Chicago $25,000,000
2 Jesse Burkett New York $23,000,000
3 Albert Pujols Chicago $23,000,000
4 Jose A Bautista New York $22,000,000
5 Carl Furillo New York $22,000,000
6 Pedro Guerrero Washington $22,000,000
7 Jim Wynn Chicago $22,000,000
8 Willie Crawford Houston $21,000,000

Mine is set at $16m. The biggest problem I have is hitting that balance of present day mlb salaries and not having too much money floating around so I don't get players making $35-$40m per season. Leaving arbitration on may also affect my player salaries going up too high. I'm going to give your a shot. Thanks for posting about this.

Well, as I said earlier in the thread, the actual financial settings are the same ones used by Orcin in "Orcin's Story" -- he now has right around 35 seasons of history and I've never seen anything get out of line in his dynasty report. I'll also be happy to update this thread after my first season, first free agency period and the like so you can see how everything evolved along those lines.

I'm at the ASB in the first season and that Wagner extension is the largest I've seen. He is 33 years old, and has been performing very, very well to this point. He was making $25M this year, and took $44M for 2 years on the extension. I'm quite happy with that type of deal, especially around a cornerstone star. Paying for age 34-36 seasons of Honus Wagner, and getting them for less than what you are paying him currently, is a solid, solid move.

And you're welcome! Though, seeing the response to this thread, I only wish I'd posted it sooner. :( Thank you for joining the discussion!

One further thing I wanted to draw attention to in reply to this... When you set the system up this way, you are using what the game projects for you as your league's financial base! They tell you the average payroll, and you're defining your "pool of money" by the point scale, as you know how much every single one of your "points" is worth. When the game gives you that average payroll projection, it is telling you how much money is available for salaries in your league...then of course the game adds cash on for scouting, development, and the like.

How do you think the money will be affected if I had no arbitration or
if I fix the media contract so all teams make the same amount? I would
move the $25m to national contract as not to remove that cash. I plan
on running some test but wanted your input. Also do you think this would
work for a smaller league (12 teams)?

I need to re read your section explaining the points. Not quite seeing what you mean.

Can't really contribute here except to say that this is such a beautifully simple approach. Wish I would have thought of it.

I honestly don't know. I don't see why not having arbitration would be any different. You still have the same amount of money available between the teams to pay the players.

I don't want the teams getting the same media contract, but I would just see how it affected the financial projections during league creation. I feel that is the most important thing, is making sure you have all the payroll funds allocated to where the other essentialls can be added by the CPU as intended during programming.

I have no doubt it would work for a smaller league. Again, it is all about getting the dollar amount per market point to where you've got the funds you want in the right places.

These are again, just educated hunchs... but none of these change the payroll numbers themselves, so you should be fine. Your bigger markets are still going to get more payroll money, and if everyone gets the same media contract, they will still maintain the difference you set up in the budgets.

Me too. But I'm glad someone else did.

This is awesome! I can't wait to try it out.

Could you post your average attendance and ticket price? I would have to believe that these have an effect on the financial projections.

33,249 fans -- $23.65, visiting team gate share is 20%.

I'm sure it would work for smaller financials, since you are still just using the average presented by the projections itself based off the figures you use. I just haven't tested it with other settings.

I'm starting to run some experiments and figured I would begin sharing the results on this thread since I'm using this market-size method to determine my financials.

The major difference here is that I will be applying the market size and cash adjustments after having simmed for 25 years, nuking the history, and sending all players to the FA pool. My biggest question at the outset is what numbers I have to change and which will automatically adjust.

For example, Atlanta had been assigned a market size of 2 out of 20 by the game. I am changing it, somewhat arbitrarily, to 16 out of 20. I've determined the payroll-$ per point of market size and the corresponding draft budget (see below)
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/...Financials.png

So, first question is where is the best place to put that $94M so that it's available for the fantasy draft? My best guess is in the Budget line. But do I need to include revenue from media, tickets and merchandise in that number as well? This leads to my second question:
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/...nceOptions.png
Do I have to update all of the above fields as well? Cash? Media Revenue? If Media Revenue needs to be manually updated, is the same per-point system adequate?

I'm hoping to answer these for myself through trial and error, but if anyone has any thoughts, please share.

Why not just use this on a current MLB or MAL setup?

The short answer is that I only play fictional universes and I want to find a solution that works in my universe.

OK... I think you're missing the big point of what I was doing. You *JUST* use the draft budget on the inaugural draft screen.

I do ZERO edits to market size and the like. They auto-aligned by just using the team draft budgets.

MAL's players are all fictional.

I tried the settings with an 8 team league and this is what I got. Trying to
figure out why avg profit is -34million. I'm still in the create custom league page.

I started a new league with the settings and no issues this time around. I've simmed 10 seasons so far and the financials look great to me. Market size hasn't gotten out of whack like they usually do when I use default.

Yeah, there had to be an issue with your budges he first time around. Glad it is working out for you. :)

bump

I have a question. When using this approach, should I sim my fictional league out 20 years or can I start playing from year one? Thanks

Excellent post, sir. This information is incredibly useful for future projects.

Just a bump. This remains a marvelous idea.

In the example in the first post of the thread, the numbers don't match up exactly. Were there some typos in either the numbers for market size or payroll?

Most of the time, a market size point was worth $11 million in before inaugural draft budget. Meaning Yankees and Dodgers have a 12 market size and $132 million budget.

But Washington shows as a 10 market size with only a $99 million budget. Detroit and Boston have a 9 market size but a $110 million budget. Cleveland is a 4 but with a $55 million budget. San Diego is a 6 but only has a $55 million budget.

Were those just typos of either the budget or the market size? Or was something else like fan interest or maybe a charitable/miserly owner driving the budget too?

The attachment should show them in chart form in case what I said didn't make sense.

What if your super star setting is set low? 1.5 mil?

This is fantastic. my extent of doing anything with market size has been finding similar cities based on population or assuming ok City x has this population city y has this fraction of city x's population, therefore its market size would be...

This is a great idea.

I'll have to do some more research here, just to see what other ideas are out there. If there are other ideas that people have deemed of value, would it be a good idea to have thread that has the links to these other formulas a swell?

Would you say that not having teams sharing a market would make market size bigger because of the changed dynamics of the market?

For example if you only have one team in the DC/Bal area. Or even only one team in NYC, because they would draw on a larger area since they're not splitting the market, or am I interjecting territorial rights into this and, thus, looking at it the wrong way?

So first page doesnt explain, did you enter those totals in the draft budget screen? And did you assign players contracts before draft using those numbers?

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