OOTP Developments Forums - View Single Post - The Turn DP rating—does it do anything?

Garlon · 02-21-2021, 12:32 AM

With regards to the reference of Bill Mazeroski, he turned 1706 DP in his career, and according to the formulas from Win Shares this was about 142 more Double Plays than the average 2B during the seasons he played. This is 9% more than average. Part of turning a DP is having a good DP partner too. If you figure "Turn DP" means that you are the player making the second assist, then roughly half the time the 2B will be the "turn" partner. So if you pair Mazeroski with an average partner, that makes his totals roughly 4.5% better than average. In the example in the original post it seems that this is approximately what was happening. Perhaps this test could be done again with both the 2B and SS Turn DP ratings increased instead of just the 2B. It seems that the results seem fine and that nothing should be changed with the game without further evidence suggesting something is amiss. Remember that in the original test you are actually putting a legitimate 2B at the position, not a player who is out of position. So the relative differences between the 2B in the test seem fine to me.

Even if you do not turn the double play you will still get 1 out. The second out adds about another 0.32 runs saved from the information I have read on the subject.

As for Mazeroski, he had about 335 more assists in his career than the average 2B, so maybe 70 of those were on the double play and the rest were on other plays.

With regards to what Leo the Lip was saying about Philadelphia and Joost, those teams from 1949-1951 were 19%, 5%, and 8% better than league average in turning double plays when you account for double play opportunities. Joost was +64 double plays turned for his career, which was about 7.5% better than average.

Regarding Nap Lajoie, he was about +41 double plays turned for his career, and he turned 1050 double plays. His defensive statistics have to be interpreted in the context that he played for poor defensive teams. He made about 109 more assists than average in his career, but he made 178 fewer errors than average. So when you consider those two things you realize that the +109 assists are really the result of preventing errors since his assists above average are less than his errors saved.

02-21-2021, 12:32 AM	#25
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,268	With regards to the reference of Bill Mazeroski, he turned 1706 DP in his career, and according to the formulas from Win Shares this was about 142 more Double Plays than the average 2B during the seasons he played. This is 9% more than average. Part of turning a DP is having a good DP partner too. If you figure "Turn DP" means that you are the player making the second assist, then roughly half the time the 2B will be the "turn" partner. So if you pair Mazeroski with an average partner, that makes his totals roughly 4.5% better than average. In the example in the original post it seems that this is approximately what was happening. Perhaps this test could be done again with both the 2B and SS Turn DP ratings increased instead of just the 2B. It seems that the results seem fine and that nothing should be changed with the game without further evidence suggesting something is amiss. Remember that in the original test you are actually putting a legitimate 2B at the position, not a player who is out of position. So the relative differences between the 2B in the test seem fine to me. Even if you do not turn the double play you will still get 1 out. The second out adds about another 0.32 runs saved from the information I have read on the subject. As for Mazeroski, he had about 335 more assists in his career than the average 2B, so maybe 70 of those were on the double play and the rest were on other plays. With regards to what Leo the Lip was saying about Philadelphia and Joost, those teams from 1949-1951 were 19%, 5%, and 8% better than league average in turning double plays when you account for double play opportunities. Joost was +64 double plays turned for his career, which was about 7.5% better than average. Regarding Nap Lajoie, he was about +41 double plays turned for his career, and he turned 1050 double plays. His defensive statistics have to be interpreted in the context that he played for poor defensive teams. He made about 109 more assists than average in his career, but he made 178 fewer errors than average. So when you consider those two things you realize that the +109 assists are really the result of preventing errors since his assists above average are less than his errors saved. Last edited by Garlon; 02-21-2021 at 12:50 AM.