OOTP Developments Forums - View Single Post - The Bucs Start Here - A Pirates Do-Over

luckymann · 12-29-2023, 11:40 PM

OK, get comfy, this is a long one…

Another dreadful outing costs Ed Whitson his rotation spot, with Rick Langford put in his place.

The injury whirlygig continues with UL Washington forced onto the IL for the minimum stint with a wrist injury, with Dale Berra finally getting his shot in the bigs. Bill Almon steps into the everyday role while Wash is recuperating.

Some iffy form then takes hold, with Rich Gossage imploding a number of times (ERA above 6 at one point) as we slip below 500 for the first time this year. Certainly can’t blame Al Oliver, who is having another fine season, but we’re getting next to nothing other than flexibility from Derrell Thomas and not enough from Phil Garner.

We get Wash back and Reggie Walton heads back to Lincoln. After 70 games we are 34-36 and 3 back of the Cubbies. The Dodgers have 50 Wins under their belt by this stage and that’s a fair indication how far we are off the pace right now.

It all goes a bit hell-in-a-handbasket as we lose Guidry for 5 weeks with back problems. We move Whitson back into the spin and recall Victor Cruz from AAA. After dropping 5 straight, we take 3 from 3 at home to the Cards and thank heavens for them—that puts us at 11-3 against the Redbirds; 26-36 versus all others. Once again our weak division also works in our favour as, despite all of the injuries and poor form, we’re still only a couple off the lead with no club in the group above 500 at this point and only 5 games separating top from bottom.

A few more wins against the Cubs and, almost unbelievably, we go into the ASB – which also coincides with this season’s halfway point – in first place at 41-40. A pretty amazing result, really and full credit to the Little Engine, who are playing their hearts out.

Our return from the break is a poor one as we win just one of our first seven and it doesn’t take long before we are 5 games below 500 and look headed for one of our worst seasons ever. Sadly, it would seem, this Little Engine might not be able.

I’ve not given up just yet. All the same, I think it is time to cut a bit of bait. Well, actually, a whole netload full as it turns out.

We flip Lee Lacy to Toronto for a reliever we’ve been eyeing for a while now and a big wad of cash to defray some of the costs you hear about in a bit.

This is one of those “pain for gain” transactions you have to make from time to time, where we trade away a great player who still has some good years left in him but who we aren’t getting much use out of because of our entrenched OF for a solid player who should be a mainstay in our pen for years to come or even perhaps the rotation. That’s not to say we won’t feel Lee’s absence for the remainder, but our BP is in tatters (10th-ranked 4.00 ERA) and Larry, who played for us IRL from 1982 thru ’86, should hopefully provide the first few stitches in the repair job. He still has two years’ TC remaining and we lock down the first of those within days of his arrival at a cost of $170k. Lou Marone is sent to AAA via the WW.

That’s just the nibble. Next comes the chum. Or, more accurately, the throw everything out of the boat that isn’t nailed down. Won't die wondering, this Hill lad, that's for sure.

If the earlier swap was “pain for gain”, this one is certainly the opposite. It makes little sense long-term and yet I simply can’t walk away from it and pull the following move with the Cubbies.

The big risk here is that both players are pending FAs. Jason is an eligible who played for us IRL 1981-85 and will likely cost us about $1.5m per to retain. Thus the importance of that cash payment in the Lacy trade, which all but covers the differential. This also frees up Kong’s CC slot.

Ben is a gun but purely a rental (after the retention, a fairly cheap one), as there’s no way we can pay what he’ll be after when he’d be used as a backup OF. Still, he gives us so much more in the short-term. It’s a pure dicre-roll. I figure we’ve had all the bad luck we can have and played about as bad as we can so far this year, yet we’re still only a handful of games out of first and well in contention. The trade’s worth will be fairly easily judged, given it was conducted with the club we are chasing. Having missed out last year and with the Dodgers looking so strong I decided to have a real crack and then take my medicine later. Genius or goat move? We shall see.

As for the players dealt away, they are replaceable but at a slight downgrade. Langford has been great this season but we think that’s about his ceiling and there’s a cliff coming for him. We could have just kept Kong, who has stood up admirably in Pop’s absence, but in Thompson we get most of the power with much-improved contact. We don’t, however, get Kong’s OF skills. That’s where Ogilvie comes in. Replace him in the aggregate, as a voice from the future might put it. Not that he had given us much this season with the bat, but Wash was the big issue and we did everything we possibly could to not have him be part of this deal. It means Derrel Thomas, currently hitting sub-200 and only possessed of an average glove at the position, now becomes our everyday SS. We could go with Bill Almon, but he is much more a backup than starter and we like having Bill roaming around in that capacity. He’ll sub in for DT in late and close. The other option is to promote Wally Backman and have Rennie Stennett move to SS. Another imperfect solution but we’ll consider it if the need arises.

I need a lie down. This stuff is exhausting. Exhilarating, sure, but exhausting. This one particularly so, as it ran the whole gamut from sally-dumping Kong and signing FA Bill Buckner, through the trade initiated by the Cubs that involved Rollie Fingers (another for Bruce Sutter was also briefly in the mix), to its final blockbuster conclusion.

As all this unfolds – almost certainly more in spite of than due to the trades – we start to turn things around with a 7-1 burst and finish the sectional bang on 500 at 51-51 and just a game back of the Cards, who have just leapfrogged the Cubs by a half-game, with the Mets two in back of us. The only one we drop in that period is an 8-7 loss to the Jints in which a struggling Victor Cruz blows a massive lead that shows us just how wild a ride the next two-and-a-bit months might prove to be.

We get Ron Guidry back just at the end of July and put him straight back to work, with Langford gone. Pops is due back next week and we’ll send him off to Lincoln for some rehab before bringing him back into the fold. We won’t get Tony Armas back until mid-September.

While the corner OFs and Lance Parrish have been great, there seems to me to be a bunch of improvement in this facet of our game, especially with the new boys on board and Pops' return imminent.

We'll need all those runs from the look of it. Lightning has been great and both Reuss and Rhoden better, but Candy has struggled and I've already spoken about our BP, which looks like the wall at the back of the secretive spot where they carry out executions, so profuse are the holes.

Plenty of strength on the other coast with the A’s (sparked back into action by the one and only Man of Steal, along with a surprising Ray Knight) and Dodgers (led by 17-2 rookie sensation Fernando Valenzuela) looking like good things to take out the respective West division. That said, not so much if you are a fan of either the Jints or Halos, either or both of which might lose 100 this season. The AL East is, like our group, set for another tight-run tussle with multiple chances in each.

News, Leaders and Top 20s

Monthly Award Winners

June

American League

Batter – Roy Smalley (Twins): 400 / 6 HR / 24 RBI
Pitcher – Danny Darwin (Mariners): 6-0 / 1.05 / 34 K / 51.1 IP
Rookie – Dan Quisenberry (Royals): 3-2 / 2.11 / 7 SV / 4 K / 21.1 IP

National League

Batter – Jason Thompson (Cubs): 354 / 9 HR / 27 RBI
Pitcher – Mario Soto (Reds): 5-0 / 2.42 / 30 K / 44.2 IP
Rookie – Fernando Valenzuela (Dodgers): 4-0 / 2.25 / 35 K / 40 IP

July

American League

Batter – Ray Knight (A’s): 434 / 3 HR / 19 RBI
Pitcher – Bruce Hurst (Red Sox): 5-0 / 2.02 / 15 K / 35.2 IP
Rookie – Bruce Hurst

National League

Batter – Ken Griffey (Reds): 344 / 4 HR / 21 RBI
Pitcher – Fernando Valenzuela (Dodgers): 4-1 / 1.58 / 43 K / 45.2 IP
Rookie – Fernando Valenzuela

Milestones and Observations of Note

2000 Hits: Bob Watson
The A’s extend Vida Blue with a 2/1040 deal.
The Twins lose 2B John Henry Johnson for 4 months to a knee injury, while Dave Collins suffers a rehab setback and will miss an additional 9 months.
While we're not the only team making moves, it is still a very quiet Deadline; there are a bunch of pending FAs this year so I anticipate this will overcorrect during the offseason - either way, here are the trades of note:

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12-29-2023, 11:40 PM	#2540
luckymann Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 12,813	The View from the Gangplank August 1, 1980 OK, get comfy, this is a long one… Another dreadful outing costs Ed Whitson his rotation spot, with Rick Langford put in his place. The injury whirlygig continues with UL Washington forced onto the IL for the minimum stint with a wrist injury, with Dale Berra finally getting his shot in the bigs. Bill Almon steps into the everyday role while Wash is recuperating. Some iffy form then takes hold, with Rich Gossage imploding a number of times (ERA above 6 at one point) as we slip below 500 for the first time this year. Certainly can’t blame Al Oliver, who is having another fine season, but we’re getting next to nothing other than flexibility from Derrell Thomas and not enough from Phil Garner. We get Wash back and Reggie Walton heads back to Lincoln. After 70 games we are 34-36 and 3 back of the Cubbies. The Dodgers have 50 Wins under their belt by this stage and that’s a fair indication how far we are off the pace right now. It all goes a bit hell-in-a-handbasket as we lose Guidry for 5 weeks with back problems. We move Whitson back into the spin and recall Victor Cruz from AAA. After dropping 5 straight, we take 3 from 3 at home to the Cards and thank heavens for them—that puts us at 11-3 against the Redbirds; 26-36 versus all others. Once again our weak division also works in our favour as, despite all of the injuries and poor form, we’re still only a couple off the lead with no club in the group above 500 at this point and only 5 games separating top from bottom. A few more wins against the Cubs and, almost unbelievably, we go into the ASB – which also coincides with this season’s halfway point – in first place at 41-40. A pretty amazing result, really and full credit to the Little Engine, who are playing their hearts out. Our return from the break is a poor one as we win just one of our first seven and it doesn’t take long before we are 5 games below 500 and look headed for one of our worst seasons ever. Sadly, it would seem, this Little Engine might not be able. I’ve not given up just yet. All the same, I think it is time to cut a bit of bait. Well, actually, a whole netload full as it turns out. We flip Lee Lacy to Toronto for a reliever we’ve been eyeing for a while now and a big wad of cash to defray some of the costs you hear about in a bit. This is one of those “pain for gain” transactions you have to make from time to time, where we trade away a great player who still has some good years left in him but who we aren’t getting much use out of because of our entrenched OF for a solid player who should be a mainstay in our pen for years to come or even perhaps the rotation. That’s not to say we won’t feel Lee’s absence for the remainder, but our BP is in tatters (10th-ranked 4.00 ERA) and Larry, who played for us IRL from 1982 thru ’86, should hopefully provide the first few stitches in the repair job. He still has two years’ TC remaining and we lock down the first of those within days of his arrival at a cost of $170k. Lou Marone is sent to AAA via the WW. That’s just the nibble. Next comes the chum. Or, more accurately, the throw everything out of the boat that isn’t nailed down. Won't die wondering, this Hill lad, that's for sure. If the earlier swap was “pain for gain”, this one is certainly the opposite. It makes little sense long-term and yet I simply can’t walk away from it and pull the following move with the Cubbies. The big risk here is that both players are pending FAs. Jason is an eligible who played for us IRL 1981-85 and will likely cost us about $1.5m per to retain. Thus the importance of that cash payment in the Lacy trade, which all but covers the differential. This also frees up Kong’s CC slot. Ben is a gun but purely a rental (after the retention, a fairly cheap one), as there’s no way we can pay what he’ll be after when he’d be used as a backup OF. Still, he gives us so much more in the short-term. It’s a pure dicre-roll. I figure we’ve had all the bad luck we can have and played about as bad as we can so far this year, yet we’re still only a handful of games out of first and well in contention. The trade’s worth will be fairly easily judged, given it was conducted with the club we are chasing. Having missed out last year and with the Dodgers looking so strong I decided to have a real crack and then take my medicine later. Genius or goat move? We shall see. As for the players dealt away, they are replaceable but at a slight downgrade. Langford has been great this season but we think that’s about his ceiling and there’s a cliff coming for him. We could have just kept Kong, who has stood up admirably in Pop’s absence, but in Thompson we get most of the power with much-improved contact. We don’t, however, get Kong’s OF skills. That’s where Ogilvie comes in. Replace him in the aggregate, as a voice from the future might put it. Not that he had given us much this season with the bat, but Wash was the big issue and we did everything we possibly could to not have him be part of this deal. It means Derrel Thomas, currently hitting sub-200 and only possessed of an average glove at the position, now becomes our everyday SS. We could go with Bill Almon, but he is much more a backup than starter and we like having Bill roaming around in that capacity. He’ll sub in for DT in late and close. The other option is to promote Wally Backman and have Rennie Stennett move to SS. Another imperfect solution but we’ll consider it if the need arises. I need a lie down. This stuff is exhausting. Exhilarating, sure, but exhausting. This one particularly so, as it ran the whole gamut from sally-dumping Kong and signing FA Bill Buckner, through the trade initiated by the Cubs that involved Rollie Fingers (another for Bruce Sutter was also briefly in the mix), to its final blockbuster conclusion. As all this unfolds – almost certainly more in spite of than due to the trades – we start to turn things around with a 7-1 burst and finish the sectional bang on 500 at 51-51 and just a game back of the Cards, who have just leapfrogged the Cubs by a half-game, with the Mets two in back of us. The only one we drop in that period is an 8-7 loss to the Jints in which a struggling Victor Cruz blows a massive lead that shows us just how wild a ride the next two-and-a-bit months might prove to be. We get Ron Guidry back just at the end of July and put him straight back to work, with Langford gone. Pops is due back next week and we’ll send him off to Lincoln for some rehab before bringing him back into the fold. We won’t get Tony Armas back until mid-September. While the corner OFs and Lance Parrish have been great, there seems to me to be a bunch of improvement in this facet of our game, especially with the new boys on board and Pops' return imminent. We'll need all those runs from the look of it. Lightning has been great and both Reuss and Rhoden better, but Candy has struggled and I've already spoken about our BP, which looks like the wall at the back of the secretive spot where they carry out executions, so profuse are the holes. Plenty of strength on the other coast with the A’s (sparked back into action by the one and only Man of Steal, along with a surprising Ray Knight) and Dodgers (led by 17-2 rookie sensation Fernando Valenzuela) looking like good things to take out the respective West division. That said, not so much if you are a fan of either the Jints or Halos, either or both of which might lose 100 this season. The AL East is, like our group, set for another tight-run tussle with multiple chances in each. News, Leaders and Top 20s Monthly Award Winners June *American League* Batter – Roy Smalley (Twins): 400 / 6 HR / 24 RBI Pitcher – Danny Darwin (Mariners): 6-0 / 1.05 / 34 K / 51.1 IP Rookie – Dan Quisenberry (Royals): 3-2 / 2.11 / 7 SV / 4 K / 21.1 IP *National League* Batter – Jason Thompson (Cubs): 354 / 9 HR / 27 RBI Pitcher – Mario Soto (Reds): 5-0 / 2.42 / 30 K / 44.2 IP Rookie – Fernando Valenzuela (Dodgers): 4-0 / 2.25 / 35 K / 40 IP July *American League* Batter – Ray Knight (A’s): 434 / 3 HR / 19 RBI Pitcher – Bruce Hurst (Red Sox): 5-0 / 2.02 / 15 K / 35.2 IP Rookie – Bruce Hurst *National League* Batter – Ken Griffey (Reds): 344 / 4 HR / 21 RBI Pitcher – Fernando Valenzuela (Dodgers): 4-1 / 1.58 / 43 K / 45.2 IP Rookie – Fernando Valenzuela Milestones and Observations of Note 2000 Hits: Bob Watson The A’s extend Vida Blue with a 2/1040 deal. The Twins lose 2B John Henry Johnson for 4 months to a knee injury, while Dave Collins suffers a rehab setback and will miss an additional 9 months. While we're not the only team making moves, it is still a very quiet Deadline; there are a bunch of pending FAs this year so I anticipate this will overcorrect during the offseason - either way, here are the trades of note: S+ HOME REPORTS HOME PIRATES HOME __________________ HISTORICAL DO-OVERS PIRATES A'S RED SOX DODGERS CUSTOM SAVES ECLIPSE LEAGUE MOON SHOT LEAGUE EVERYMAN LEAGUE GULF LEAGUE