Pitching WAY to good

jeter6970 · 06-20-2006, 09:15 PM

I'm playing with a patched game.
I'm using an import league from v6.5 that originally used Cubbyfans 2006 roster set.
I'm playing in a Major League universe with AAA,AA,A,and short season A ball, so a lot of my minor leagues have fictional players filling out rosters.
All MLE's are set to the default -- so basically modern day baseball #'s.
I'm playing out all of my teams games

These are my results as of May 31, 2007 (I played out the 2006 season on 6.5)

American League
3.26 ERA .246 BA 160 CG 81 SO .291 BABIP
National League
3.05 ERA .239 BA 139 CG 103 SO .288 BABIP
International League
3.03 ERA .234 BA 128 CG 75 SO .278 BABIP
Pacific Coast League
2.97 ERA .234 BA 161 CG 96 SO .277 BABIP
Eastern League
2.45 ERA .217 BA 106 CG 99 SO .252 BABIP
Southern League
2.40 ERA .214 BA 93 CG 85 SO .245 BABIP
Texas League
2.44 ERA .213 BA 88 CG 55 SO .243 BABIP
California League
1.62 ERA .178 BA 147 CG 115 SO .193 BABIP
Carolina League
2.20 ERA .201 BA 99 CG 74 SO .214 BABIP
Florida State League
1.93 ERA .191 BA 179 CG 134 SO .203 BABIP

The Jupiter Hammerheads in the FSL have a Team ERA of 0.94 with 35 Complete Games and 23 Shutouts. In 458 IP they have allowed 253 hits and 75 walks and given up ONLY 9 home runs!!!!!

I'm managing the Yankees in this league and as a team these are some of my stats and league rankings (51 Games Played)
.245 BA 8th in AL
.288 OBP 5th
.388 SLG 7th
.677 OPS 7th
208 Runs Scored 4th
3.63 ERA 11th
213 Runs Allowed 11th
68 BB Allowed tied for 1st (I haven't walked a batter in my last 15 games, and only have drawn 3 walks as a team)

While I don't have any factual information to go on -- it is hard for me to imagine that a lot of these numbers would make sense or match up to numbers in real life baseball.
It seems to me there are a lot of people on the boards talking about similar issues with the AI and pitching being WAY better than hitting. It also seems that more people who have imported teams from v6.5 have had odd numbers coming up like the ones above. I'm not sure but that may be where most of the problems come from.

Along sort of the same lines here -- it seems that the pitchers endurance may be having an effect on the overall numbers. When switching the endurance level from low to very low all it seemed to do was change how long it took a pitcher to recover -- not how long a pitcher could throw in a game. I had a reliever with a 25 endurance rating that was 86% rested after throwing 18 pitches the day before (the only time he pitched in the last 5 days) When I switched the endurance rating to very low he was only 63% rested. Meanwhile my starting pitcher, who had a 77 endurance rating threw 127 pitches and was effective for 8 innings. After moving on to the next day the relief pitcher was only 77% rested until I switched the endurance rating back to low -- then he was 100% rested.

Right now I'm going to set up a fictional league with the same set up and sim until May 31 of the 1st season -- then I'm going to re-import my league and set it up the same way again, but this time sim until May 31 of the 2007 season. (This to see if there is a difference from playing out games to simming games) and get back with the results. Maybe that way it will show there is more of a specific area that needs to be worked on.

JimG · 06-20-2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeter6970

California League
1.62 ERA .178 BA 147 CG 115 SO .193 BABIP

Thats a big part of the problem right there. A BABIP is just silly since even the best pitchers dont have BABIPs anywhere near that low. Its even weirder to have it that low for a whole league.

So this isnt really a pitching problem because the DIPS engine shouldnt be giving low BABIP numbers to great pitchers. Instead the problem is in the sim. Good news for your league I think it that you dont have too many great pitchers --- you just have the wrong values so you should edit each your leagues MLE tables until you have the numbers you want.

jeter6970 · 06-20-2006, 10:17 PM

Ok -- here are my results playing with a fictional league with the same set ups
American League
4.69 ERA .268 BA 69 CG 30 SO .304 BABIP
National League
3.99 ERA .258 BA 50 CG 46 SO .295 BABIP
International League
4.15 ERA .264 BA 73 CG 48 SO .297 BABIP
Pacific Coast League
4.32 ERA .263 BA 100 CG 48 SO .298 BABIP
Eastern League
4.06 ERA .253 BA 78 CG 28 SO .286 BABIP
Southern League
4.10 ERA .255 BA 79 CG 29 SO .286 BABIP
Texas League
4.19 ERA .265 BA 49 CG 22 SO .298 BABIP
California League
4.02 ERA .253 BA 65 CG 30 SO .287 BABIP
Carolina League
4.55 ERA .274 BA 52 CG 24 SO .311 BABIP
Florida State League
4.03 ERA .260 BA 67 CG 35 SO .292 BABIP

Well these seem to me to be more realistic numbers -- As I write this up I'm simming my second test of the league again imported from v6.5

jeter6970 · 06-20-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimG

Thats a big part of the problem right there. A BABIP is just silly since even the best pitchers dont have BABIPs anywhere near that low. Its even weirder to have it that low for a whole league.

So this isnt really a pitching problem because the DIPS engine shouldnt be giving low BABIP numbers to great pitchers. Instead the problem is in the sim. Good news for your league I think it that you dont have too many great pitchers --- you just have the wrong values so you should edit each your leagues MLE tables until you have the numbers you want.

MLEs are all set to defaults -- just like the the first test league I ran with fictional players

jeter6970 · 06-20-2006, 10:40 PM

Now here are my results for re-importing my same league but simming through.
Remember all games are played through May 31 of the season.

American League
3.37 ERA .244 BA 165 CG 77 SO .284 BABIP
National League
3.25 ERA .239 BA 99 CG 77 SO .289 BABIP
International League
2.98 ERA .240 BA 128 CG 76 SO .285 BABIP
Pacific Coast League
3.24 ERA .240 BA 139 CG 69 SO .286 BABIP
Eastern League
2.68 ERA .221 BA 127 CG 86 SO .246 BABIP
Southern League
2.62 ERA .221 BA 103 CG 62 SO .251 BABIP
Texas League
2.51 ERA .215 BA 85 CG 54 SO .252 BABIP
California League
1.84 ERA .185 BA 154 CG 115 SO .196 BABIP
Carolina League
1.88 ERA .184 BA 103 CG 81 SO .194 BABIP
Florida State League
2.03 ERA .195 BA 189 CG 125 SO .209 BABIP

jeter6970 · 06-20-2006, 10:50 PM

So the current league I'm playing and the 2nd test league -- both using the same core players and imported from v6.5 -- have VERY similar stats.

While the 1st test league I ran had much more realistic numbers.

So the best I can guess is maybe there is something wrong with the way things import from v6.5.
I don't know if this was mentioned before -- or if someone else did tests like this -- or even if this issue has been addressed at all, but if not I hope this catches someone's attention.

I also hope this has enough information in it so that it might be some sort of help in possibly identifying and solving a problem that seems to exist.
If anything else is needed I'll be glad to try some other tests -- or whatever may need to be done.

Edit -- All leagues were started post patch

OOTPinSTL · 06-20-2006, 11:16 PM

I've got all my settings on "Normal" as well, and I routinely see two to five shutouts just about every day.

darkenigma510 · 06-21-2006, 01:23 AM

When I imported my 6.12 league, I also noticed that for the first couple of years, pitching dominated hitting.

jbsnadb · 06-21-2006, 01:36 AM

It could be that fictional players are being created as if to populate an entire universe, when in reality, the major leagues are already full. So, talented pitchers are pitching at lower levels than they should, simply because there is nowhere else for them to play.

QuestGAV · 06-21-2006, 02:12 AM

Leagues with low MLEs (even if your ML is set on default, the minor leagues all have progressively lower MLEs) have low ERAs. It seems like this is due to the Batting Average MLE having a more obvious affect on hitters than pitchers, as pitchers don't have a rating that corresponds to Contact for hitters.

I've also heard others say that their 6.x leagues imported with low ERAs initially and as time passed the ERA increases. This is probably due to an interaction between the League Totals that are based on the imported players and the ratings relative to each other and the new talent created by the new PCMs. If there's an imbalance between the ratios of ratings of the imported players vs the created ones that enter the league you'll see a change as the league becomes more and more slanted towards the players created in OOTP06.

Questdog · 06-21-2006, 02:28 AM

One thing I would check (and I haven't imported any leagues) is what the league totals are. I don't meen the stats, but the league totals shown in the game setup screen. If they are altered when you import a league, this could be the source of your problem.

jeter6970 · 06-21-2006, 07:25 AM

Okay I went and checked League Totals and while the minor leagues were set to the defaults the major leagues were set to this:

500 AB
139 H
28 2B
5 3B
14 HR
55 BB
8 HBP
125 K
.328 BABIP

Obviously those #'s are low for LEAGUE totals. But if you put them together it equals:
.278 BA
1 2B per 17.85 AB
1 3B per 100 AB
1 HR per 35.71 AB
1 BB per 9.09 AB
1 HBP per 62.5 AB
1 K per 4 AB
The averages there seem to be possible -- but again using those #'s as league totals might throw off the way things work in the game.
I went back to my v6.5 game and in League Setup/Engine Setup noticed that this is where the above #'s came from. I clicked recalculate totals and these #'s came up instead
167281 AB
45141 H
9225 2B
871 3B
5564 HR
12946 BB
814 HBP
33513 K
.309 BABIP
meaning a
.270 BA
1 2B per 18.1 AB
1 3B per 192 AB
1 HR per 30 AB
1 BB per 13 AB
1 HBP per 206 AB
1 K per 5 AB

I then proceeded to import my v6.5 a third time into the 2006 game and ran the league until 5/31/07....
And the same results. Without getting into as much detail as above it seems that the leagues AVGs, BABIP and ERAs are WAY to low while the complete games and shutouts are WAY to high -- it is about the same as my current league and my 2nd test league.
American League
3.44 ERA .240 BA 105 CG 76 SO .295 BABIP
National League
3.20 ERA .231 BA 93 CG 84 SO .288 BABIP
and so on down in numbers as the levels get lower!!
That leaves me (even after changing league totals before import) in the same place I was earlier -- the problem occurs with the import somehow.
I was REALLY hoping this would work too. Oh well -- thanks anyway for the idea.

Questdog · 06-21-2006, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeter6970

I was REALLY hoping this would work too. Oh well -- thanks anyway for the idea.

Well, I believe your hope will be answered for those totals sure look like your problem. You see, contrary to what may seem logical, the more offensive your league totals LOOK, the less offensive they are!

I don't have access to the game right now, or I'd give you the league totals to imput. But you can just create a small quick little fictional league or start one of the premade setups and check out the league totals. Copy them down and imput into your 6.5 league and I think your problem will be solved.

Another Mike D · 06-21-2006, 12:41 PM

There seems to be an issue with imported leagues vs. OOTP2006 original leagues. I have seen the same thing, not sure whether it has to do with ratings upon import or something else. It's being examined (hopefully).

james17 · 06-21-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

Well, I believe your hope will be answered for those totals sure look like your problem. You see, contrary to what may seem logical, the more offensive your league totals LOOK, the less offensive they are!

I don't have access to the game right now, or I'd give you the league totals to imput. But you can just create a small quick little fictional league or start one of the premade setups and check out the league totals. Copy them down and imput into your 6.5 league and I think your problem will be solved.

The League Totals for the default quickstart MAL League in OOTP2006 are:

AB 167353
Hits 44522
2B 8919
3B 898
HR 5451
BB 16222
HBP 1850
K 31828
BABIP .296

Now I've never understood too well how to adjust League Totals but maybe if someone who is in the know looks at these default OOTP2006 totals it will reveal something about if they need to be changed in imported leagues.

battists · 07-14-2006, 03:56 PM

Sorry for the very late response to this thread.

There is a known issue with pitching being too strong, especially in imported leagues.

This issue has been claimed fixed in the next version of the patch, due out soon.

For now, I'm going to move this over to the Claimed Fixed forum.

Thanks,

Steve

james17 · 07-14-2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Sorry for the very late response to this thread.

There is a known issue with pitching being too strong, especially in imported leagues.

This issue has been claimed fixed in the next version of the patch, due out soon.

For now, I'm going to move this over to the Claimed Fixed forum.

Thanks,

Steve

Steve,

I've twice simmed an imported 6.5 a full season since patch 2 and this bug appears to be resolved.

06-20-2006, 09:15 PM	#1
jeter6970 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 69	Pitching WAY to good I'm playing with a patched game. I'm using an import league from v6.5 that originally used Cubbyfans 2006 roster set. I'm playing in a Major League universe with AAA,AA,A,and short season A ball, so a lot of my minor leagues have fictional players filling out rosters. All MLE's are set to the default -- so basically modern day baseball #'s. I'm playing out all of my teams games These are my results as of May 31, 2007 (I played out the 2006 season on 6.5) American League 3.26 ERA .246 BA 160 CG 81 SO .291 BABIP National League 3.05 ERA .239 BA 139 CG 103 SO .288 BABIP International League 3.03 ERA .234 BA 128 CG 75 SO .278 BABIP Pacific Coast League 2.97 ERA .234 BA 161 CG 96 SO .277 BABIP Eastern League 2.45 ERA .217 BA 106 CG 99 SO .252 BABIP Southern League 2.40 ERA .214 BA 93 CG 85 SO .245 BABIP Texas League 2.44 ERA .213 BA 88 CG 55 SO .243 BABIP California League 1.62 ERA .178 BA 147 CG 115 SO .193 BABIP Carolina League 2.20 ERA .201 BA 99 CG 74 SO .214 BABIP Florida State League 1.93 ERA .191 BA 179 CG 134 SO .203 BABIP The Jupiter Hammerheads in the FSL have a Team ERA of 0.94 with 35 Complete Games and 23 Shutouts. In 458 IP they have allowed 253 hits and 75 walks and given up ONLY 9 home runs!!!!! I'm managing the Yankees in this league and as a team these are some of my stats and league rankings (51 Games Played) .245 BA 8th in AL .288 OBP 5th .388 SLG 7th .677 OPS 7th 208 Runs Scored 4th 3.63 ERA 11th 213 Runs Allowed 11th 68 BB Allowed tied for 1st (I haven't walked a batter in my last 15 games, and only have drawn 3 walks as a team) While I don't have any factual information to go on -- it is hard for me to imagine that a lot of these numbers would make sense or match up to numbers in real life baseball. It seems to me there are a lot of people on the boards talking about similar issues with the AI and pitching being WAY better than hitting. It also seems that more people who have imported teams from v6.5 have had odd numbers coming up like the ones above. I'm not sure but that may be where most of the problems come from. Along sort of the same lines here -- it seems that the pitchers endurance may be having an effect on the overall numbers. When switching the endurance level from low to very low all it seemed to do was change how long it took a pitcher to recover -- not how long a pitcher could throw in a game. I had a reliever with a 25 endurance rating that was 86% rested after throwing 18 pitches the day before (the only time he pitched in the last 5 days) When I switched the endurance rating to very low he was only 63% rested. Meanwhile my starting pitcher, who had a 77 endurance rating threw 127 pitches and was effective for 8 innings. After moving on to the next day the relief pitcher was only 77% rested until I switched the endurance rating back to low -- then he was 100% rested. Right now I'm going to set up a fictional league with the same set up and sim until May 31 of the 1st season -- then I'm going to re-import my league and set it up the same way again, but this time sim until May 31 of the 2007 season. (This to see if there is a difference from playing out games to simming games) and get back with the results. Maybe that way it will show there is more of a specific area that needs to be worked on.

06-20-2006, 10:50 PM	#6
jeter6970 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 69	So the current league I'm playing and the 2nd test league -- both using the same core players and imported from v6.5 -- have VERY similar stats. While the 1st test league I ran had much more realistic numbers. So the best I can guess is maybe there is something wrong with the way things import from v6.5. I don't know if this was mentioned before -- or if someone else did tests like this -- or even if this issue has been addressed at all, but if not I hope this catches someone's attention. I also hope this has enough information in it so that it might be some sort of help in possibly identifying and solving a problem that seems to exist. If anything else is needed I'll be glad to try some other tests -- or whatever may need to be done. Edit -- All leagues were started post patch Last edited by jeter6970; 06-20-2006 at 10:58 PM.

06-21-2006, 12:41 PM	#14
Another Mike D All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: atl Posts: 891	There seems to be an issue with imported leagues vs. OOTP2006 original leagues. I have seen the same thing, not sure whether it has to do with ratings upon import or something else. It's being examined (hopefully). __________________ San Diego Padres NexGen Baseball League Cleveland Indians United Baseball League Co-commissioner of United Baseball League

06-20-2006, 10:17 PM	#3
jeter6970 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 69	Ok -- here are my results playing with a fictional league with the same set ups American League 4.69 ERA .268 BA 69 CG 30 SO .304 BABIP National League 3.99 ERA .258 BA 50 CG 46 SO .295 BABIP International League 4.15 ERA .264 BA 73 CG 48 SO .297 BABIP Pacific Coast League 4.32 ERA .263 BA 100 CG 48 SO .298 BABIP Eastern League 4.06 ERA .253 BA 78 CG 28 SO .286 BABIP Southern League 4.10 ERA .255 BA 79 CG 29 SO .286 BABIP Texas League 4.19 ERA .265 BA 49 CG 22 SO .298 BABIP California League 4.02 ERA .253 BA 65 CG 30 SO .287 BABIP Carolina League 4.55 ERA .274 BA 52 CG 24 SO .311 BABIP Florida State League 4.03 ERA .260 BA 67 CG 35 SO .292 BABIP Well these seem to me to be more realistic numbers -- As I write this up I'm simming my second test of the league again imported from v6.5

06-20-2006, 10:40 PM	#5
jeter6970 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 69	Now here are my results for re-importing my same league but simming through. Remember all games are played through May 31 of the season. American League 3.37 ERA .244 BA 165 CG 77 SO .284 BABIP National League 3.25 ERA .239 BA 99 CG 77 SO .289 BABIP International League 2.98 ERA .240 BA 128 CG 76 SO .285 BABIP Pacific Coast League 3.24 ERA .240 BA 139 CG 69 SO .286 BABIP Eastern League 2.68 ERA .221 BA 127 CG 86 SO .246 BABIP Southern League 2.62 ERA .221 BA 103 CG 62 SO .251 BABIP Texas League 2.51 ERA .215 BA 85 CG 54 SO .252 BABIP California League 1.84 ERA .185 BA 154 CG 115 SO .196 BABIP Carolina League 1.88 ERA .184 BA 103 CG 81 SO .194 BABIP Florida State League 2.03 ERA .195 BA 189 CG 125 SO .209 BABIP

06-20-2006, 11:16 PM	#7
OOTPinSTL Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 20	I've got all my settings on "Normal" as well, and I routinely see two to five shutouts just about every day.

06-21-2006, 01:23 AM	#8
darkenigma510 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Wild West Posts: 1,353	When I imported my 6.12 league, I also noticed that for the first couple of years, pitching dominated hitting.

06-21-2006, 01:36 AM	#9
jbsnadb All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,098	It could be that fictional players are being created as if to populate an entire universe, when in reality, the major leagues are already full. So, talented pitchers are pitching at lower levels than they should, simply because there is nowhere else for them to play.

06-21-2006, 02:12 AM	#10
QuestGAV Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,008	Leagues with low MLEs (even if your ML is set on default, the minor leagues all have progressively lower MLEs) have low ERAs. It seems like this is due to the Batting Average MLE having a more obvious affect on hitters than pitchers, as pitchers don't have a rating that corresponds to Contact for hitters. I've also heard others say that their 6.x leagues imported with low ERAs initially and as time passed the ERA increases. This is probably due to an interaction between the League Totals that are based on the imported players and the ratings relative to each other and the new talent created by the new PCMs. If there's an imbalance between the ratios of ratings of the imported players vs the created ones that enter the league you'll see a change as the league becomes more and more slanted towards the players created in OOTP06.

06-21-2006, 02:28 AM	#11
Questdog Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In a dark, damp cave where I'm training slugs to run the bases...... Posts: 16,142	One thing I would check (and I haven't imported any leagues) is what the league totals are. I don't meen the stats, but the league totals shown in the game setup screen. If they are altered when you import a league, this could be the source of your problem.

06-21-2006, 07:25 AM	#12
jeter6970 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 69	Okay I went and checked League Totals and while the minor leagues were set to the defaults the major leagues were set to this: 500 AB 139 H 28 2B 5 3B 14 HR 55 BB 8 HBP 125 K .328 BABIP Obviously those #'s are low for LEAGUE totals. But if you put them together it equals: .278 BA 1 2B per 17.85 AB 1 3B per 100 AB 1 HR per 35.71 AB 1 BB per 9.09 AB 1 HBP per 62.5 AB 1 K per 4 AB The averages there seem to be possible -- but again using those #'s as league totals might throw off the way things work in the game. I went back to my v6.5 game and in League Setup/Engine Setup noticed that this is where the above #'s came from. I clicked recalculate totals and these #'s came up instead 167281 AB 45141 H 9225 2B 871 3B 5564 HR 12946 BB 814 HBP 33513 K .309 BABIP meaning a .270 BA 1 2B per 18.1 AB 1 3B per 192 AB 1 HR per 30 AB 1 BB per 13 AB 1 HBP per 206 AB 1 K per 5 AB I then proceeded to import my v6.5 a third time into the 2006 game and ran the league until 5/31/07.... And the same results. Without getting into as much detail as above it seems that the leagues AVGs, BABIP and ERAs are WAY to low while the complete games and shutouts are WAY to high -- it is about the same as my current league and my 2nd test league. American League 3.44 ERA .240 BA 105 CG 76 SO .295 BABIP National League 3.20 ERA .231 BA 93 CG 84 SO .288 BABIP and so on down in numbers as the levels get lower!! That leaves me (even after changing league totals before import) in the same place I was earlier -- the problem occurs with the import somehow. I was REALLY hoping this would work too. Oh well -- thanks anyway for the idea.

07-14-2006, 03:56 PM	#16
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506 Blog Entries: 7	Sorry for the very late response to this thread. There is a known issue with pitching being too strong, especially in imported leagues. This issue has been claimed fixed in the next version of the patch, due out soon. For now, I'm going to move this over to the Claimed Fixed forum. Thanks, Steve