strange personnel choices

jinkorjap · 06-11-2006, 03:48 AM

Just in case this wasn't pointed out, some Japanese dude with ratings all below 2 or 3 probably shouldn't be getting a MLB GM job..this goes for all other jobs as well, as I had dudes from like the Maldives with horrible ratings getting jobs as coaches in the MLB..

Raidergoo · 06-11-2006, 10:33 AM

Can you post a picture of the Japanese fellow who has no business being in baseball?

jinkorjap · 06-12-2006, 03:37 AM

I have no idea how to take a screenshot but I can tell you his name is Yorikane Haruguchi and he is from Kanazawa, Japan. His teach ratings (and his best) are 4-4-3 respectively. He was the GM in Cleveland before I took over and is now the GM of the Angels.

jinkorjap · 06-22-2006, 07:22 AM

has this (or will it) be fixed?

steady teddy · 06-22-2006, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinkorjap

I have no idea how to take a screenshot .

Press the Print Screen button. Go to Paint Shop/Edit/Paste. You can use a program like Irfanview to convert the bitmap pic to jpg then you can upload the pic at someplace like ImageShack.

Raidergoo · 06-22-2006, 08:41 PM

Yep, that is a good procedure.

I am trying to get some directions on this topic stickied.

jinkorjap · 06-23-2006, 03:59 AM

tysok · 06-23-2006, 09:42 AM

That's special.

One question for you though. Is there anyone available that could better fill the role?

Possibility, don't know if it's happened for you.
Have you possibly snatched up the guy that should have that job for one of your minor league posts? I haven't been able to do this, and don't want this to turn into a how-to thread cuz it shouldn't - and I haven't tried after the patch, did you demote a major league coach to the minors and signed a coach that should be this team's GM?

The game doesn't create enough mediocre coaches, and in the view of a human player doesn't assign them to the right areas (the great teachers are ML managers and coaches). So if you've possibly snatched up the guys who should be there.... the computer has no choice but to grab the next best available guy, and those "next best available guys" suck badly.

Raidergoo · 06-23-2006, 09:56 AM

Is there anyone better in the pool for the job?

jinkorjap · 06-23-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysok

That's special.

One question for you though. Is there anyone available that could better fill the role?

Possibility, don't know if it's happened for you.
Have you possibly snatched up the guy that should have that job for one of your minor league posts? I haven't been able to do this, and don't want this to turn into a how-to thread cuz it shouldn't - and I haven't tried after the patch, did you demote a major league coach to the minors and signed a coach that should be this team's GM?

The game doesn't create enough mediocre coaches, and in the view of a human player doesn't assign them to the right areas (the great teachers are ML managers and coaches). So if you've possibly snatched up the guys who should be there.... the computer has no choice but to grab the next best available guy, and those "next best available guys" suck badly.

no, nobody is better (and I didn't hire anyone else for a coaching position). That's the problem here though - not that he wasn't the most qualified out of all the candidates, but the fact that he is THAT bad.

jbsnadb · 06-23-2006, 05:05 PM

Part of the problem is that coaches and scouts don't leave their jobs after their contracts expire.

Raidergoo · 06-23-2006, 05:10 PM

. . .I don't think that someone that uniformly bad is supposed to get hired, but hey, maybe it's He Who Shall Not Be Named from Kansas City.

I can ask about this.

jbsnadb · 06-23-2006, 05:13 PM

Who knew Mike Milbury made the switch from hockey to baseball?

andymac · 06-23-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

. . .I don't think that someone that uniformly bad is supposed to get hired, but hey, maybe it's He Who Shall Not Be Named from Kansas City.

I can ask about this.

This could also be a rollover issue. If his ratings are that bad, but whoever is hiring actually undervaules him, the ratings might rollover to where the owner or whatever actually is seeing ratings in the 200's for this guy (or whatever the top of the ratings scale is. I believe the possibility of rollover problems have also been brought up elsewhere.

jinkorjap · 06-24-2006, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbsnadb

Who knew Mike Milbury made the switch from hockey to baseball?

no no, Mad Mike wouldn't have ratings nearly that good

tysok · 06-24-2006, 05:05 PM

I think it's just general managers suck that bad... I'll post more on this tonight (I think) when I get back from work... but all the general managers suck in all ratings. If they're any better anywhere they seem to want other jobs....

tysok · 06-24-2006, 11:23 PM

All right... so the guy in question (the screen shot above) is a General Manager. And so I need to take a look at General Managers to understand the problem, or lack of problem in this case.

General Managers seem to be the only "management" job that really makes sense to me, now that I'm looking at it.
In my league there are 38 people with preferred occupation of General Manager. 8 people have no jobs, the New York Mets have 2 General Managers (not sure how, but clicking their cards say they're both the GM) and I'm a general manager.
They all "suck". The best rating guy is:
teach hitting: 10
teach pitching: 10
teach fielding: 11
handle rookies: 3
handle veterans: 4
handle players: 3
The average ratings for the guys with jobs:
teach hitting: 4.2
teach pitching: 4.27
teach fielding: 4.57
handle rookies: 2.5
handle veterans: 2.9
handle players: 2.63
Not all of the guys with no jobs are worse... one guy is 6-6-6-3-3-3
Some of the guys with jobs really look to suck... one is 1-1-1-1-2-2
So GMs are decided on, not by their skills in teaching and handling but by their preferences... this makes sense since they don't teach or handle players. Everything should be about whether or not they like veterans or prospects, favor speed or power... etc.

Like I said, it's the only one of the "management" positions that make sense.
So, I don't see a bug here... on the contrary I'm quite pleased to see this.

Thanks for bringing this up though, without it I wouldn't have delved into the GMs and seen that one section of the "management" area does indeed make sense.

tysok · 06-25-2006, 12:12 AM

With that GM question running around in my head, I think this is a good time and place to look at Managers and the rest of the staff as well.

So I'll take a look at managers next.
Managers are definately one of the "management" positions that just don't make any sense to me. This is another spot that should be primarily about his preferences, sac bunt, pitch around, hook relievers, etc... but it's definately not.
There are 60 guys that have preferred occupation of manager on ML staffs. Obviously 30 managers, and 30 bench coaches.
First, there's way too many great ones. 13 total have at least 3 of the 6 ratings higher than 17, and the others over 13:

Code:

T Hit	T Pit	T Field	H Vet	H Rook	H Play
20	20	14	20	20	20
16	20	12	19	20	20
13	20	19	20	15	15
17	20	18	19	14	14
19	19	17	12	14	14
19	19	17	20	19	19
17	18	19	11	13	13
					
18	18	12	11	17	17
14	19	20	19	15	15
19	14	17	17	15	15
20	15	20	18	15	15
19	20	20	20	20	20
14	20	13	20	20	20

The bottom group of 6 are currently bench coaches. Since the game decides that these ratings make for the best managers, there's too many of these great managers. This is like every team in the American League having Tommy Lasorda, Tony Larussa, Joe Torre, Earl Weaver, Bobby Cox, etc... So this league I'm playing... 20 years from now is going to induct 10+ managers into the hall of fame that ALL managed AT THE SAME TIME. That's just weird.
Also, since these are obviously what makes the best managers, some of those bench coaches should have never signed to be a mere bench coach... although I did see a few that were making a lot more than the manager.

In 12 instances the bench coach is better, by ratings, than the manager is.
In one instance a Teach hitting 5, teach pitching 19, and teach fielding 5 is the manager over an 11-19-17.
The average Major League Manager - Bench Coach ratings are:

Code:

T Hit	13.67	13.23
T Pit	13.7	14
T Field	13.2	13.63
H Vet	13.77	14.27
H Rook	13.7	14.23
H Play	13.73	14.23

For the rest of the leagues the averages are:

Code:

	AAA	AA	A	Rook	No Jobs
T Hit	6.95	7.06	6.91	7.08	6.16
T Pit	7.46	6.74	6.84	7.08	5.94
T Field	7.14	6.74	6.9	7.08	5.96
H Vet	7	6.74	6.84	7.18	6.24
H Rook	6.81	6.94	6.88	7.15	6.59
H Play	7.03	6.74	6.84	7.18	6.35
Tot Man.37	31	67	39	51

At least Rookie level is better, but these go the wrong direction. The guys who can teach are going to the higher levels, and the guys who can't are in A ball...
There's plenty of people without jobs, but definately not ML material (as the game seems to laid out), and don't even qualify to be A ball managers by measure of same.
Further, the game seems to want the highest ratings (makes sense) but somehow got these guys to sign onto these minor league levels:

Code:

	Guy 1 - in AAA	Guy 2 in Rookie ball
T Hit	15		11
T Pit	20		15
T Field	15		16
H Vet	12		18
H Rook	13		10
H Play	13		18

Those are ML caliber guys, and both should at least be in AAA, but the first one outdoes some of the ML managers.

The game really needs different categories for management at the ML level. I don't expect that it'll happen in this version, but there should really be a "knowledge" rating... when to use his tendencies and when to go against them... when to make moves and when to stand pat type rating.
Teaching should be an afterthought, and preferences should be the major factor in managers, as well as it already is in general managers.

tysok · 06-25-2006, 12:51 AM

A shorter look at Pitching Coaches. Same things apply, the great teachers are in the Majors. The averages for all levels:

Code:

	No Job	R	A	AA	AAA	ML
T Pit	6.87	7.55	7.63	7.7	7.76	15.79
H Vets	6.54	6.76	6.91	6.89	6.72	14.31
H Rook	6.73	6.68	6.68	6.93	6.72	14.55
H Play	6.53	6.76	6.95	6.89	6.72	14.34
Tot. Co.	70	38	57	28	25	29

Here, none of the numbers make sense. The best teachers of pitching are in the Majors, and it steadily goes down as they get to Rookie ball. Again, plenty of the worthless looking for jobs. Take a look at handling rookies... the worst handlers are in Rookie ball... the one place where you're sure to find a wealth of rookie players.

The total coaches don't add up to anything, just a figure. Obviously the AI has hired some staff away from other areas to fill in some roles... which is fine, if of course they put them in a role that makes sense (at least to the way the game is laid out now).

This is the same as managers. There should be another rating, and ML caliber coaches should be high in it. Something like noticing problems, tweaking delivery, problem solving.... right now all the greatest teachers of pitching are gravitating to the one place where people shouldn't need to be taught.
Unlike managers though, pitching coaches probably don't have anything to do with preferences.

I did find some silliness here. 15 of the ML coaches were 17 or higher in teaching pitching. Of these 7 are great (17+) at handling players, and 10 at handling rookies... 5 of them are great at handling anyone! 5 clubs have Leo Mazzone on the bench.

One team managed to sign a 14-11-14-11 pitching coach to their A ball team. And one 14-15-9-15 is on a AAA club.

Another problem is there just aren't enough mediocre coaches. There's only 29 that are at least rating 12 at teaching pitching. If "teaching pitching" is the rating that decides if they're useful for a major league club, there should be far more.
Same thing with managers, although I forgot to mention it. There are plenty of fringe, okay, coaches and managers waiting to take over. Tony Pena, Joe Girardi for management... I don't know many pitching or hitting coaches, but doubt that there's only 30 guys that could do at least a servicable job at it. And servicable at the ML level in this game looks to be around rating 12.

On another note, there's a AAA team and a ML team that has no pitching coach... since contracts don't run out, and they should have been there when I started the league... the AI GM seems to forget to hire people sometimes.

tysok · 06-25-2006, 12:55 AM

I'm going to take a look at hitting coaches, and doctors too, but not tonight.

I'll take a ML view of scouts too, since minor league scouts go to the minors for a reason. I'm thinking there's too few reasonable scouts, but looking around the league I'm not so sure.

Some of this is useless and doesn't belong right here... but since we're on the topic of staff, and the current topic didn't turn out to be a bug, I'll keep it all posted here... good topic line for it too.

I'll post more tomorrow or Monday.

06-11-2006, 03:48 AM	#1
jinkorjap Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: DFW Posts: 143	strange personnel choices Just in case this wasn't pointed out, some Japanese dude with ratings all below 2 or 3 probably shouldn't be getting a MLB GM job..this goes for all other jobs as well, as I had dudes from like the Maldives with horrible ratings getting jobs as coaches in the MLB..

06-25-2006, 12:12 AM	#18
tysok Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,925	With that GM question running around in my head, I think this is a good time and place to look at Managers and the rest of the staff as well. So I'll take a look at managers next. Managers are definately one of the "management" positions that just don't make any sense to me. This is another spot that should be primarily about his preferences, sac bunt, pitch around, hook relievers, etc... but it's definately not. There are 60 guys that have preferred occupation of manager on ML staffs. Obviously 30 managers, and 30 bench coaches. First, there's way too many great ones. 13 total have at least 3 of the 6 ratings higher than 17, and the others over 13: Code: T Hit T Pit T Field H Vet H Rook H Play 20 20 14 20 20 20 16 20 12 19 20 20 13 20 19 20 15 15 17 20 18 19 14 14 19 19 17 12 14 14 19 19 17 20 19 19 17 18 19 11 13 13 18 18 12 11 17 17 14 19 20 19 15 15 19 14 17 17 15 15 20 15 20 18 15 15 19 20 20 20 20 20 14 20 13 20 20 20 The bottom group of 6 are currently bench coaches. Since the game decides that these ratings make for the best managers, there's too many of these great managers. This is like every team in the American League having Tommy Lasorda, Tony Larussa, Joe Torre, Earl Weaver, Bobby Cox, etc... So this league I'm playing... 20 years from now is going to induct 10+ managers into the hall of fame that ALL managed AT THE SAME TIME. That's just weird. Also, since these are obviously what makes the best managers, some of those bench coaches should have never signed to be a mere bench coach... although I did see a few that were making a lot more than the manager. In 12 instances the bench coach is better, by ratings, than the manager is. In one instance a Teach hitting 5, teach pitching 19, and teach fielding 5 is the manager over an 11-19-17. The average Major League Manager - Bench Coach ratings are: Code: T Hit 13.67 13.23 T Pit 13.7 14 T Field 13.2 13.63 H Vet 13.77 14.27 H Rook 13.7 14.23 H Play 13.73 14.23 For the rest of the leagues the averages are: Code: AAA AA A Rook No Jobs T Hit 6.95 7.06 6.91 7.08 6.16 T Pit 7.46 6.74 6.84 7.08 5.94 T Field 7.14 6.74 6.9 7.08 5.96 H Vet 7 6.74 6.84 7.18 6.24 H Rook 6.81 6.94 6.88 7.15 6.59 H Play 7.03 6.74 6.84 7.18 6.35 Tot Man.37 31 67 39 51 At least Rookie level is better, but these go the wrong direction. The guys who can teach are going to the higher levels, and the guys who can't are in A ball... There's plenty of people without jobs, but definately not ML material (as the game seems to laid out), and don't even qualify to be A ball managers by measure of same. Further, the game seems to want the highest ratings (makes sense) but somehow got these guys to sign onto these minor league levels: Code: Guy 1 - in AAA Guy 2 in Rookie ball T Hit 15 11 T Pit 20 15 T Field 15 16 H Vet 12 18 H Rook 13 10 H Play 13 18 Those are ML caliber guys, and both should at least be in AAA, but the first one outdoes some of the ML managers. The game really needs different categories for management at the ML level. I don't expect that it'll happen in this version, but there should really be a "knowledge" rating... when to use his tendencies and when to go against them... when to make moves and when to stand pat type rating. Teaching should be an afterthought, and preferences should be the major factor in managers, as well as it already is in general managers. Last edited by tysok; 06-25-2006 at 12:13 AM.

06-25-2006, 12:51 AM	#19
tysok Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,925	A shorter look at Pitching Coaches. Same things apply, the great teachers are in the Majors. The averages for all levels: Code: No Job R A AA AAA ML T Pit 6.87 7.55 7.63 7.7 7.76 15.79 H Vets 6.54 6.76 6.91 6.89 6.72 14.31 H Rook 6.73 6.68 6.68 6.93 6.72 14.55 H Play 6.53 6.76 6.95 6.89 6.72 14.34 Tot. Co. 70 38 57 28 25 29 Here, none of the numbers make sense. The best teachers of pitching are in the Majors, and it steadily goes down as they get to Rookie ball. Again, plenty of the worthless looking for jobs. Take a look at handling rookies... the worst handlers are in Rookie ball... the one place where you're sure to find a wealth of rookie players. The total coaches don't add up to anything, just a figure. Obviously the AI has hired some staff away from other areas to fill in some roles... which is fine, if of course they put them in a role that makes sense (at least to the way the game is laid out now). This is the same as managers. There should be another rating, and ML caliber coaches should be high in it. Something like noticing problems, tweaking delivery, problem solving.... right now all the greatest teachers of pitching are gravitating to the one place where people shouldn't need to be taught. Unlike managers though, pitching coaches probably don't have anything to do with preferences. I did find some silliness here. 15 of the ML coaches were 17 or higher in teaching pitching. Of these 7 are great (17+) at handling players, and 10 at handling rookies... 5 of them are great at handling anyone! 5 clubs have Leo Mazzone on the bench. One team managed to sign a 14-11-14-11 pitching coach to their A ball team. And one 14-15-9-15 is on a AAA club. Another problem is there just aren't enough mediocre coaches. There's only 29 that are at least rating 12 at teaching pitching. If "teaching pitching" is the rating that decides if they're useful for a major league club, there should be far more. Same thing with managers, although I forgot to mention it. There are plenty of fringe, okay, coaches and managers waiting to take over. Tony Pena, Joe Girardi for management... I don't know many pitching or hitting coaches, but doubt that there's only 30 guys that could do at least a servicable job at it. And servicable at the ML level in this game looks to be around rating 12. On another note, there's a AAA team and a ML team that has no pitching coach... since contracts don't run out, and they should have been there when I started the league... the AI GM seems to forget to hire people sometimes. Last edited by tysok; 06-25-2006 at 12:56 AM.

06-11-2006, 10:33 AM	#2
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	Can you post a picture of the Japanese fellow who has no business being in baseball?

06-12-2006, 03:37 AM	#3
jinkorjap Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: DFW Posts: 143	I have no idea how to take a screenshot but I can tell you his name is Yorikane Haruguchi and he is from Kanazawa, Japan. His teach ratings (and his best) are 4-4-3 respectively. He was the GM in Cleveland before I took over and is now the GM of the Angels.

06-22-2006, 07:22 AM	#4
jinkorjap Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: DFW Posts: 143	has this (or will it) be fixed?

06-22-2006, 08:41 PM	#6
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	Yep, that is a good procedure. I am trying to get some directions on this topic stickied.

06-23-2006, 03:59 AM	#7
jinkorjap Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: DFW Posts: 143

06-23-2006, 09:42 AM	#8
tysok Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,925	That's special. One question for you though. Is there anyone available that could better fill the role? Possibility, don't know if it's happened for you. Have you possibly snatched up the guy that should have that job for one of your minor league posts? I haven't been able to do this, and don't want this to turn into a how-to thread cuz it shouldn't - and I haven't tried after the patch, did you demote a major league coach to the minors and signed a coach that should be this team's GM? The game doesn't create enough mediocre coaches, and in the view of a human player doesn't assign them to the right areas (the great teachers are ML managers and coaches). So if you've possibly snatched up the guys who should be there.... the computer has no choice but to grab the next best available guy, and those "next best available guys" suck badly.

06-23-2006, 09:56 AM	#9
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	Is there anyone better in the pool for the job?

06-23-2006, 05:05 PM	#11
jbsnadb All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,098	Part of the problem is that coaches and scouts don't leave their jobs after their contracts expire.

06-23-2006, 05:10 PM	#12
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	. . .I don't think that someone that uniformly bad is supposed to get hired, but hey, maybe it's He Who Shall Not Be Named from Kansas City. I can ask about this.

06-23-2006, 05:13 PM	#13
jbsnadb All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,098	Who knew Mike Milbury made the switch from hockey to baseball?

06-24-2006, 05:05 PM	#16
tysok Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,925	I think it's just general managers suck that bad... I'll post more on this tonight (I think) when I get back from work... but all the general managers suck in all ratings. If they're any better anywhere they seem to want other jobs....

06-24-2006, 11:23 PM	#17
tysok Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,925	All right... so the guy in question (the screen shot above) is a General Manager. And so I need to take a look at General Managers to understand the problem, or lack of problem in this case. General Managers seem to be the only "management" job that really makes sense to me, now that I'm looking at it. In my league there are 38 people with preferred occupation of General Manager. 8 people have no jobs, the New York Mets have 2 General Managers (not sure how, but clicking their cards say they're both the GM) and I'm a general manager. They all "suck". The best rating guy is: teach hitting: 10 teach pitching: 10 teach fielding: 11 handle rookies: 3 handle veterans: 4 handle players: 3 The average ratings for the guys with jobs: teach hitting: 4.2 teach pitching: 4.27 teach fielding: 4.57 handle rookies: 2.5 handle veterans: 2.9 handle players: 2.63 Not all of the guys with no jobs are worse... one guy is 6-6-6-3-3-3 Some of the guys with jobs really look to suck... one is 1-1-1-1-2-2 So GMs are decided on, not by their skills in teaching and handling but by their preferences... this makes sense since they don't teach or handle players. Everything should be about whether or not they like veterans or prospects, favor speed or power... etc. Like I said, it's the only one of the "management" positions that make sense. So, I don't see a bug here... on the contrary I'm quite pleased to see this. Thanks for bringing this up though, without it I wouldn't have delved into the GMs and seen that one section of the "management" area does indeed make sense.

06-25-2006, 12:55 AM	#20
tysok Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,925	I'm going to take a look at hitting coaches, and doctors too, but not tonight. I'll take a ML view of scouts too, since minor league scouts go to the minors for a reason. I'm thinking there's too few reasonable scouts, but looking around the league I'm not so sure. Some of this is useless and doesn't belong right here... but since we're on the topic of staff, and the current topic didn't turn out to be a bug, I'll keep it all posted here... good topic line for it too. I'll post more tomorrow or Monday.