Double Counting Cash

kq76 · 10-16-2008, 01:07 AM

It looks like cash is being counted for twice now in the $ for FAs. It's being added/subtracted from total rev to get the current budget and then being added/subtracted again to get $ for FAs. The problem is the former as it is happening in the current budget calculation for the $ for extensions calculation too. This has the effect of giving teams with +ve cash way too much "$ for..." and teams with -ve cash way too little.

I don't recall this being a problem before the latest round of patches.

Relatedly, could someone tell me the reasoning for taking cash out of the $ for extensions calculation? I don't know when it happened, but it was sometime after OOTP6 as it included it. I have a theory of why it may have been taken out and I think it might make sense that it was, but I just like to see if it's the same reasoning. I don't think this, but I worry it may have been a mistake.

For reference, here are what I think the formulas were/should be (with current budget either being an owner created budget or just total rev, not total rev minus cash as we're now seeing):

FAs
= (Current Budget + Cash)
- (Expenses to Date + Expenses to Incur + Contract Offers)

Extensions
= (Current Budget)
- (Staff Payroll + Scouting Budget + Next Year Projected Payroll)

kq76 · 10-16-2008, 03:42 AM

So I've been doing some testing to see if I can see if something else is going on and with "entire revenue available" set, the current budget just won't equal total rev or, as it was in the example above, total rev - cash. The above was from an online league that just converted from OOTP6.5 (the CBL in my sig if you want to look at the file) so it might be a conversion issue. However, the "entire revenue available" option seems busted regardless, or at least using a formula that is not total rev as the help file says. If you use the "assign fictional financials..." function it will equal total rev, but otherwise it won't. I've even ran multiple years and the same thing happens.

Markus Heinsohn · 10-16-2008, 06:22 AM

When 'owner decides budget' is off, then it still does not mean the budget will imidiately reflect revenue minus losses plus cash. It still grows/falls more gradually from season to season. And in calculations for available money the budget is always used, not revenue minus expenses.

Patch 9.2.2 introduced that cash is now exvailable when offering extension, but only if 'owner decides budget' is off. The other calculations work as designed, I've checked them.

kq76 · 10-16-2008, 02:12 PM

Well, I think I can accept that the doubling count of cash probably was just a conversion issue (or maybe our commish somehow did it by accident) and it's a pretty easy one to fix at that so it's not as big of a deal as I first worried.

And if "entire revenue available" isn't supposed to be exact, only close, then I can accept that too. It would probably be good to specify in the help and manual that it's only supposed to be close though so other people don't scratch their heads as well.

Thanks for looking at it.

Tony M · 10-25-2008, 06:19 AM

As the problem appears to be resolved and there has been no further discussion on this matter, this thread will be moved to closed for housekeeping purposes.

10-16-2008, 01:07 AM	#1
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,796	Double Counting Cash It looks like cash is being counted for twice now in the $ for FAs. It's being added/subtracted from total rev to get the current budget and then being added/subtracted again to get $ for FAs. The problem is the former as it is happening in the current budget calculation for the $ for extensions calculation too. This has the effect of giving teams with +ve cash way too much "$ for..." and teams with -ve cash way too little. I don't recall this being a problem before the latest round of patches. Relatedly, could someone tell me the reasoning for taking cash out of the $ for extensions calculation? I don't know when it happened, but it was sometime after OOTP6 as it included it. I have a theory of why it may have been taken out and I think it might make sense that it was, but I just like to see if it's the same reasoning. I don't think this, but I worry it may have been a mistake. For reference, here are what I think the formulas were/should be (with current budget either being an owner created budget or just total rev, not total rev minus cash as we're now seeing): FAs = (Current Budget + Cash) - (Expenses to Date + Expenses to Incur + Contract Offers) Extensions = (Current Budget) - (Staff Payroll + Scouting Budget + Next Year Projected Payroll) __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

10-16-2008, 03:42 AM	#2
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,796	So I've been doing some testing to see if I can see if something else is going on and with "entire revenue available" set, the current budget just won't equal total rev or, as it was in the example above, total rev - cash. The above was from an online league that just converted from OOTP6.5 (the CBL in my sig if you want to look at the file) so it might be a conversion issue. However, the "entire revenue available" option seems busted regardless, or at least using a formula that is not total rev as the help file says. If you use the "assign fictional financials..." function it will equal total rev, but otherwise it won't. I've even ran multiple years and the same thing happens. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

10-16-2008, 02:12 PM	#4
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,796	Well, I think I can accept that the doubling count of cash probably was just a conversion issue (or maybe our commish somehow did it by accident) and it's a pretty easy one to fix at that so it's not as big of a deal as I first worried. And if "entire revenue available" isn't supposed to be exact, only close, then I can accept that too. It would probably be good to specify in the help and manual that it's only supposed to be close though so other people don't scratch their heads as well. Thanks for looking at it. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

10-25-2008, 06:19 AM	#5
Tony M Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Here Posts: 6,156	As the problem appears to be resolved and there has been no further discussion on this matter, this thread will be moved to closed for housekeeping purposes. __________________ This signature is intentionally blank

10-16-2008, 06:22 AM	#3
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	When 'owner decides budget' is off, then it still does not mean the budget will imidiately reflect revenue minus losses plus cash. It still grows/falls more gradually from season to season. And in calculations for available money the budget is always used, not revenue minus expenses. Patch 9.2.2 introduced that cash is now exvailable when offering extension, but only if 'owner decides budget' is off. The other calculations work as designed, I've checked them.