Post-deadline trade questions

[Corsairs]

For some reason I was under the impression that players with minor league contracts and who aren't on the secondary roster could be dealt after the trade deadline without having to clear waivers. Based on the results from tonight's sim, it seems I'm in error about this. Could someone clear up for me if there are any circumstances where a player doesn't have to clear waivers when being traded after the deadline? And is there any way for a commissioner to force a trade to pass after the deadline without requiring the players to pass through waivers?

[endgame]

My understanding is that any trade that occurs after the trade deadline becomes, in effect, a 'waiver trade', i.e. the players involved must clear waivers or have already cleared waivers.

Now on this part I'm a little fuzzy about game operations. I _think_the game resets players who have cleared waivers at a couple of points during the season, replicating to the best of its ability waiver periods. One of these, again I _think_ ends at the trading deadline. So regardless of status, option years, etc... players involved in these trades will need to clear waivers.

As to the ability of the commish to Force Trade after deadline, an onliner may be able to address this more quickly and with more confidence. If not, it shouldn't take much to create a test league and examine the attempt as commissioner.

[endgame]

I tried the test league and could not force the trade as commissioner. It still informs me that it is a waiver trade and they must pass through waivers. If any player has a claim put against them, the trade will be cancelled. It appears, though, at least from what I just examined, that the claim only serves to cancel the trade. I did not find a record of any players actually being 'taken' with claim. Oh, and btw, even with minor leaguers I was unable to execute six consecutive trade attempts. I've done it in my own league, but in this one just couldn't get anyone past the waiver phase. That was a bit odd.

[Corsairs]

Thank you very much for going the extra mile like that! That makes it clear that commissioners can't force waiver trades. From your results, it also seems like all players - even minor leaguers - must clear waivers post-deadline. Is that how it works in real life as well? I'm trying to figure out how I got this idea that players with minor league contracts and not on the secondary roster were exempt from post-deadline waivers.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by Corsairs

Thank you very much for going the extra mile like that! That makes it clear that commissioners can't force waiver trades. From your results, it also seems like all players - even minor leaguers - must clear waivers post-deadline. Is that how it works in real life as well? I'm trying to figure out how I got this idea that players with minor league contracts and not on the secondary roster were exempt from post-deadline waivers.

No problem. Doesn't mean I'm certain, but at least we have some working assumptions tested, regardless of how hastily. If you have time or are inclined, feel welcome to try it yourself and see if you confirm similar results. It'd be good to compare notes.

[Corsairs]

Just ran a test and it seems like you indeed cannot force a post-deadline trade in commish mode. Like you, I also found that players with minor league contracts and not on the secondary roster need to pass through waivers. So now I'm just stuck trying to figure out why I'm so darn sure it shouldn't work this way. Anyone know if this is the way it works in MLB?

[mikev]

Minor leauge players not on the 40 man roster do not need to clear waivers to be traded after the deadline in MLB.

[Corsairs]

Okay, so that's where my confusion is coming from, since it looks like they do need to clear waivers in OOTP. I knew there was some reason I was thinking it worked like that! Thanks for the heads-up.

[mikev]

Originally Posted by Corsairs

Okay, so that's where my confusion is coming from, since it looks like they do need to clear waivers in OOTP. I knew there was some reason I was thinking it worked like that! Thanks for the heads-up.

If you're trying to trade a minor leaguer for a major leaguer, you will see the error saying that all players haven't cleared waivers.

[Corsairs]

I did notice that I got that error. The thing that surprised me was that the two minor leaguers involved in the trade were also put on waivers. I expected the major leaguer to have to pass through waivers for the trade to complete, but I thought the minor leaguers would be exempt from that process. Apparently that's true in real life but not in OOTP.

[mikev]

Not sure, in the GUBA we process post-deadline waivers via league forums. Owners make a "waive to trade" post in the waiver forum, and the player is on waivers for 24 hours realtime. If he goes without being claimed he is free to be traded, but when we actually process the trades in-game it's just editing the player and changing his team.

It's a bit of a PITA, but there's no way around it with the way the game is currently set up.

[endgame]

What happens post-trade deadline if you're not using waivers?

[injury log]

Just to add--

-OOTP does simulate three waiver periods, and I think endgame is right that one waiver period begins on August 1st, meaning any player who has cleared waivers before then will need to clear again;

-trade waivers (Major League waivers) are revocable in real life the first time they're used in a waiver period. They're not the same as outright waivers. So it should always be possible to pull a player off waivers if you try to trade him after the deadline, provided you only try to trade him once. OOTP makes these waivers automatically revocable *every* time they're used- the gameplayer doesn't need to do anything- if a guy is claimed, OOTP pulls him off waivers and cancels the trade. OOTP really should only make them revocable the first time, irrevocable aftewards, but it's better this way than that the waivers always be irrevocable.

[endgame]

Thanks for the insight, injury. I thought that was how the claim process was working, i.e. auto pullbacks, but wasn't sure. Sidenote: We really should pinpoint those exact waiver periods for reference sake, if nothing else. *adding to the ToDo or ToFindOut list.*

[injury log]

Someone pinpointed the waiver periods in a recent thread in General; a forum search might turn it up. I'll look around for it as well.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by injury log

Someone pinpointed the waiver periods in a recent thread in General; a forum search might turn it up. I'll look around for it as well.

I thought so originally, but then I thought it was LGO delineating how they are broken up in MLB. I'm not certain we've verified it in-game. In any case, if you do find it, do post the link. I appreciate it.

[injury log]

Can't find the post I was thinking of, but I did find a post of mine from December where I took my best guess at when waiver periods start and end:

"My guess is that the game uses three periods- from May 1 to July 31 (the trade deadline); from Aug 1 to the start of the offseason; and from the start of the offseason to May 1. "

I'm pretty sure, if I remember the correct answer to this question, that the above guess was wrong, but close- I'm pretty sure May 1 is off by a bit. OOTP certainly does have three different waiver periods, though.

[sporr]

Regardless, the game makes you put players back on waivers again to trade them after the deadline regardless of when they cleared. It's part of the trade process.

[endgame]

Not trying to be a butt-head here, but I don't think this thread is exclusively an online issue (noticing it moved). It might be a commissioner's concern, but it's just as relevant to the general population who may play solo in commissioner mode or for info's sake alone.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by sporr

Regardless, the game makes you put players back on waivers again to trade them after the deadline regardless of when they cleared. It's part of the trade process.

Right, what I've been doing is moving them manually using the editor and editing their history to include the trade.

For anyone who cares, here are the waiver trade rules my league uses:

# Trade Waivers

* Players not on the 40 Man Roster and draft picks can be traded after the July 31st deadline without having to clear Trade Waivers.
* Players on the 40 Man Roster can be traded after the July 31st deadline if they clear Trade Waivers.
* To trade players who are on the 40 Man Roster:
o DO NOT waive the player in the game.
o For each player, create a new thread in the Waivers forum stating the player has been placed on Trade Waivers.
o Teams may claim players in his Trade Waiver thread.
o Players are on waivers for 48 hours (real time) after the thread is created.
o If no claims are made during that time, they are free to trade him to any team.
o If any claims are made in the Trade Waiver thread, the waiving team can negotiate a trade with the team that claimed the player and had the highest priority (Worst record) at that time.
o If no trade is completed within 48 hours the waiving team can either revoke the waivers or allow the claim to go through and lose him for nothing.