Sammy Sosa was a PED User...Shock of the Century!!

MorseMoose · 06-16-2009, 04:46 PM

Just got the ESPN breaking news text message:

Sosa tested positive for PEDs in 2003. Wow...didn't see that coming

.

eriqjaffe · 06-16-2009, 04:55 PM

He will continue to calmly wait for his induction into Cooperstown.

pstrickert · 06-16-2009, 05:03 PM

I attended a Cubs-Pirates game at Three Rivers Stadium once. Before the game, Sosa received some kind of award. Upon receipt, he expressed his admiration for Roberto Clemente. I cannot help but think (now) that it was sacrilegious for Sosa to invoke the honorable Clemente's name.

Russ · 06-16-2009, 05:07 PM

I never could stand Sosa. His whole act was phony.

Slackker · 06-16-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstrickert

I attended a Cubs-Pirates game at Three Rivers Stadium once. Before the game, Sosa received some kind of award. Upon receipt, he expressed his admiration for Roberto Clemente. I cannot help but think (now) that it was sacrilegious for Sosa to invoke the honorable Clemente's name.

This brings up a question. Once I was receiving an award (well, a reward - syringe style) and I said to the dirty toothless hobo next to me: "This reminds me of the time I met Doc Gooden."

Was that wrong of me?

mterracc · 06-17-2009, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eriqjaffe

He will continue to calmly wait for his induction into Cooperstown.

Steve Stone said it best today.

"He better get a very comfortable chair."

Dude's going to be waiting a LONG time.

jbergey22 · 06-17-2009, 03:39 AM

I honestly cant figure out the bitterness in all these threads like this. Did you guys honestly not enjoy watching guys like Clemens pitch or Bonds, Sosa and McGwire hit?

Does what Pete Rose did make you think less of him as a player?

I know I enjoyed watching them guys hit and nothing will take that away. They like many other human beings make mistakes in which most are forgivable.

I really hope this blows over at some point otherwise none of us should be able to sit and say we've enjoyed baseball over the past 20 seasons which I know is false.

If MLB would ease up on these guys a bit Im sure many more would come clean before it came to this but under these conditions they are getting everything taken away for them in which they likely didnt understand the consequences at the point they were doing these drugs.

I feel bad for the non cheaters and that is it however the non cheaters will have the luxury of being able to live a healthy life from now on while these other guys wont. They will pay for it.

Rant over.

I should add that nothing in this particular thread was bad so its probably the wrong place for this particular post.

jazzrack · 06-17-2009, 03:46 AM

what always amazes me is that working PEDs of one form or another have been around since at least the early 30's in olympic style sports and people believe that somehow they never leached over into sports like baseball.

head in the sand i tell you

CMH · 06-17-2009, 12:02 PM

Oh, no! Not Sosa!

Cryomaniac · 06-17-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I honestly cant figure out the bitterness in all these threads like this. Did you guys honestly not enjoy watching guys like Clemens pitch or Bonds, Sosa and McGwire hit?

Does what Pete Rose did make you think less of him as a player?

I know I enjoyed watching them guys hit and nothing will take that away. They like many other human beings make mistakes in which most are forgivable.

I really hope this blows over at some point otherwise none of us should be able to sit and say we've enjoyed baseball over the past 20 seasons which I know is false.

If MLB would ease up on these guys a bit Im sure many more would come clean before it came to this but under these conditions they are getting everything taken away for them in which they likely didnt understand the consequences at the point they were doing these drugs.

I feel bad for the non cheaters and that is it however the non cheaters will have the luxury of being able to live a healthy life from now on while these other guys wont. They will pay for it.

Rant over.

I should add that nothing in this particular thread was bad so its probably the wrong place for this particular post.

Pete Rose is different. He should be in the hall of fame, he didn't cheat.

thehatfield · 06-17-2009, 01:35 PM

What I'm really amazed about considering PEDs in sports in America is how on earth does MLB have a worse steroid image than the NFL whose players often resemble WWE-style roid monsters?

canadiancreed · 06-17-2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Pete Rose is different. He should be in the hall of fame, he didn't cheat.

Gambling on games that you were a part of was legal in the late 80's?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Cowboy

What I'm really amazed about considering PEDs in sports in America is how on earth does MLB have a worse steroid image than the NFL whose players often resemble WWE-style roid monsters?

It's overshadowed by the other legal troubles that their players have had/are having?

CMH · 06-17-2009, 02:14 PM

I think it's because people don't care about the integrity of the sport. Guys are supposed to be big in football and take damage. It's always been known that football players will take pills or take the extra advantage to survive every week.

Baseball was commonly thought of as the lazy sport that is a feel good, watch under the sun sport. When players go above that expectation to become monsters in the sport, fans feel betrayed.

Well, that's how I see it. I really don't even give a crap about steroids.

eriqjaffe · 06-17-2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMH

I really don't even give a crap about steroids.

...as evidenced by your avatar.

Jonzard · 06-17-2009, 03:33 PM

NFL records mean basically nothing compared to baseball stats. I think that is the biggest part. People love the cross-era comparisons, even though the foundation of that is flawed (Babe Ruth/pre-integration).

Furthermore, baseball players are the most "normal" athletes. For the most part, they are just regular looking people so we group them as an "in group." Most players aren't 6-10 or 350lbs like the NFL or NBA. NFL players are already physical freaks and are grouped as an "other group." A linebacker is already sort of a super-human so we don't emotionally get invested in their purity. When baseball players take steroids we see it as a betrayal of that connection.

In baseball, there are even examples of almost sub-average types of athletes who take that "in grouping" to the extreme. Guys like Eckstein or Kirby Puckett are often lionized due to the connection we feel to them as regular Joes playing amongst guys much more naturally gifted. It is really just illusory as they are also just as naturally talented in what they do as a that linebacker is in what he does.

In football there are guys who might be small or something but they still have physical gifts that we view as much more super-human than a guy swinging a bat or throwing a ball. People don't see Barry Sanders in the same way they see Kirby Puckett. Barry was still viewed as a physical freak compared to the everyman.

CBL-Commish · 06-17-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Pete Rose is different. He should be in the hall of fame, he didn't cheat.

Pete Rose is different. He broke a fundamental rule that had been on the books for generations and was so important that it is posted on the walls of every clubhouse in baseball.

Until recently baseball treated PED use as something akin to a speeding ticket or dumping your used oil in your hedgerow - technically illegal in society, but nothing we're too concerned about.

jbergey22 · 06-17-2009, 05:41 PM

For example Daunte Stallworth killed a person and Im guessing after 5 years if he happens to stay out of trouble he will known as a guy that turned his life around and learned from his mistake. Clemens, Bonds and ARod are the 3 that bother me most because these 3 were at the top of their profession before they did the roids. They will never get the chance to redeem themselves and will always be known as cheaters.

Keeping Clemens, Bonds and ARod out of the Hall of Fame IMO borders on insanity. Three of the best players of all time being left out of the Hall of Fame would IMO make the HOF a sportswriters spectacle more than anything in which I could care less about it.

I only wish that at one point the press would start going after their own and we could see how imperfect they are.

Slackker · 06-17-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

For example Daunte Stallworth killed a person and Im guessing after 5 years if he happens to stay out of trouble he will known as a guy that turned his life around and learned from his mistake.

I highly doubt that. This isn't Josh Hamilton and a drug addiction. This is killing someone and getting only 30 days. I don't think anyone will suddenly love him if he happens to come back and actually perform well - which he hasn't done in the past couple years anyhow. Would you have said the same for Rae Carruth? Leonard Little? The closest I see is Ray Lewis, but I don't think he has more fans now than he did before. For instance, I appreciate his ability.. but every conversation I have about him (even with a Ravens fan I work with) includes a couple jokes. Lately it's "Brandon Marshall will be fine on the Ravens. If he doesn't behave we'll take care of him Ray Lewis style.". People I know simply look at him as an amazing player who perhaps shouldn't be allowed in society, let alone on a football field.

Quote:

Clemens, Bonds and ARod are the 3 that bother me most because these 3 were at the top of their profession before they did the roids. They will never get the chance to redeem themselves and will always be known as cheaters.

Keeping Clemens, Bonds and ARod out of the Hall of Fame IMO borders on insanity.

Agreed. But I can't say the same for Sosa. Maybe it's because the three you mentioned were/are SO good that people assume they'd still put up HOF-worthy numbers minus the roids. I can't imagine steroids would make enough difference in Bonds' career that he wouldn't still make it without them. Maybe he wouldn't be elite, but still great.

In Sosa's case the ONLY number which gives him a shot at the HOF is 609, the amount of homers he hit. His career average was barely .250, and his OBP was only .311. Pretty sad for a guy that was pitched around a lot late in his career when that sudden power surge kicked in. Amusingly.. 1988 for the White Sox he has zero walks in 88 plate appearances. Ouch! Only drew more than 45 walks once prior to 1998. The guy just wasn't that good. Even with the 609 he has no place in my HOF, steroids aside.

Cryomaniac · 06-17-2009, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

Pete Rose is different. He broke a fundamental rule that had been on the books for generations and was so important that it is posted on the walls of every clubhouse in baseball.

To me PED use is worse than gambling. I haven't seen any evidence that Rose fixed games, which is what would merit the punishment he has.

SandMan · 06-17-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

Just got the ESPN breaking news text message:

Sosa tested positive for PEDs in 2003. Wow...didn't see that coming

.

Oh NO! "Say it isn't so-SA!"

The loss of 30 lbs of muscle between his playing with the Cubs to the time he joined the Orioles should have been an indicator. Still I believed him at the congressional hearings when he said that he did not take PEDs. I feel a bit sad by the news because now you have the best players of the last decade on the list of players that took PEDs or steroids. Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, Rodriguez, Bonds, Manny....hopefully guys like Thome and Griffey Jr are clean. We need our heroes.....

06-16-2009, 04:46 PM	#1
MorseMoose Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6,023 Blog Entries: 4 Infractions: 1/1 (1)	Sammy Sosa was a PED User...Shock of the Century!! Just got the ESPN breaking news text message: Sosa tested positive for PEDs in 2003. Wow...didn't see that coming .

06-16-2009, 04:55 PM	#2
eriqjaffe Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Location: Under The Christmas Fish Posts: 7,624	He will continue to calmly wait for his induction into Cooperstown. __________________

06-16-2009, 05:07 PM	#4
Russ All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Essex HON! Posts: 1,923 Blog Entries: 1 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I never could stand Sosa. His whole act was phony. __________________ If you don't love Russ, you don't love America. This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

06-17-2009, 03:39 AM	#7
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,481	I honestly cant figure out the bitterness in all these threads like this. Did you guys honestly not enjoy watching guys like Clemens pitch or Bonds, Sosa and McGwire hit? Does what Pete Rose did make you think less of him as a player? I know I enjoyed watching them guys hit and nothing will take that away. They like many other human beings make mistakes in which most are forgivable. I really hope this blows over at some point otherwise none of us should be able to sit and say we've enjoyed baseball over the past 20 seasons which I know is false. If MLB would ease up on these guys a bit Im sure many more would come clean before it came to this but under these conditions they are getting everything taken away for them in which they likely didnt understand the consequences at the point they were doing these drugs. I feel bad for the non cheaters and that is it however the non cheaters will have the luxury of being able to live a healthy life from now on while these other guys wont. They will pay for it. Rant over. I should add that nothing in this particular thread was bad so its probably the wrong place for this particular post. Last edited by jbergey22; 06-17-2009 at 03:41 AM.

06-17-2009, 03:46 AM	#8
jazzrack Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: still kicking Posts: 3,229 Blog Entries: 25	what always amazes me is that working PEDs of one form or another have been around since at least the early 30's in olympic style sports and people believe that somehow they never leached over into sports like baseball. head in the sand i tell you __________________ . "Never confuse composure for ease" Was once Head Cheese of Corporate League Baseball

06-16-2009, 05:03 PM	#3
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16,370	I attended a Cubs-Pirates game at Three Rivers Stadium once. Before the game, Sosa received some kind of award. Upon receipt, he expressed his admiration for Roberto Clemente. I cannot help but think (now) that it was sacrilegious for Sosa to invoke the honorable Clemente's name.

06-17-2009, 12:02 PM	#9
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	Oh, no! Not Sosa!

06-17-2009, 01:35 PM	#11
thehatfield All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: dirty jerz Posts: 1,339	What I'm really amazed about considering PEDs in sports in America is how on earth does MLB have a worse steroid image than the NFL whose players often resemble WWE-style roid monsters? __________________ AFBL - Maryland Bridegrooms SBC - Western Suburbs Magpies no pressure no problem

06-17-2009, 02:14 PM	#13
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	I think it's because people don't care about the integrity of the sport. Guys are supposed to be big in football and take damage. It's always been known that football players will take pills or take the extra advantage to survive every week. Baseball was commonly thought of as the lazy sport that is a feel good, watch under the sun sport. When players go above that expectation to become monsters in the sport, fans feel betrayed. Well, that's how I see it. I really don't even give a crap about steroids.

06-17-2009, 03:33 PM	#15
Jonzard Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,647	NFL records mean basically nothing compared to baseball stats. I think that is the biggest part. People love the cross-era comparisons, even though the foundation of that is flawed (Babe Ruth/pre-integration). Furthermore, baseball players are the most "normal" athletes. For the most part, they are just regular looking people so we group them as an "in group." Most players aren't 6-10 or 350lbs like the NFL or NBA. NFL players are already physical freaks and are grouped as an "other group." A linebacker is already sort of a super-human so we don't emotionally get invested in their purity. When baseball players take steroids we see it as a betrayal of that connection. In baseball, there are even examples of almost sub-average types of athletes who take that "in grouping" to the extreme. Guys like Eckstein or Kirby Puckett are often lionized due to the connection we feel to them as regular Joes playing amongst guys much more naturally gifted. It is really just illusory as they are also just as naturally talented in what they do as a that linebacker is in what he does. In football there are guys who might be small or something but they still have physical gifts that we view as much more super-human than a guy swinging a bat or throwing a ball. People don't see Barry Sanders in the same way they see Kirby Puckett. Barry was still viewed as a physical freak compared to the everyman. __________________ For a scientist must indeed be freely imaginative and yet skeptical, creative and yet a critic. There is a sense in which he must be free, but another in which his thought must be very precisely regimented; there is poetry in science, but also a lot of bookkeeping. — Sir Peter B. Medawar FTB Last edited by Jonzard; 06-17-2009 at 05:15 PM.

06-17-2009, 05:41 PM	#17
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,481	For example Daunte Stallworth killed a person and Im guessing after 5 years if he happens to stay out of trouble he will known as a guy that turned his life around and learned from his mistake. Clemens, Bonds and ARod are the 3 that bother me most because these 3 were at the top of their profession before they did the roids. They will never get the chance to redeem themselves and will always be known as cheaters. Keeping Clemens, Bonds and ARod out of the Hall of Fame IMO borders on insanity. Three of the best players of all time being left out of the Hall of Fame would IMO make the HOF a sportswriters spectacle more than anything in which I could care less about it. I only wish that at one point the press would start going after their own and we could see how imperfect they are.