Am I gonna have success converting this guy from RP to SP?

tejdog1 · 10-20-2011, 10:19 PM

Or am I just gonna get his arm blown out or something?

1998 Yankees · 10-20-2011, 10:25 PM

I'll tell you one thing. Much as I respect the design of this game, I never pay attention to it evaluating a pitcher with 22 stamina as a "starter." It just is not realistic and this is usually demonstrated in the games he starts from which he departs after 3 innings or so, "exhausted." You try to stretch him and, yeah, I would say he'd be prone to injury. In this case, though, I see the game tags him as "bullpen" despite having three potentially good pitches. I think you should go with that suggestion. Watch the game rate him as starter once those pitches develop, however.

tejdog1 · 10-20-2011, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I'll tell you one thing. Much as I respect the design of this game, I never pay attention to it evaluating a pitcher with 22 stamina as a "starter." It just is not realistic and this is usually demonstrated in the games he starts from which he departs after 3 innings or so, "exhausted." You try to stretch him and, yeah, I would say he'd be prone to injury. In this case, though, I see the game tags him as "bullpen" despite having three potentially good pitches. I think you should go with that suggestion. Watch the game rate him as starter once those pitches develop, however.

Yeah, I see the 3 pitches all with potential to be plus or better, the movement, the control, and I just... I gotta try it, even if I have a good example of it being disasterous (Brant Rustich) with the Mets in recent years. Could it work if I set a pitch count on him, of like... 50 or 60? And slowly increase it, so the AI manager isn't throwing him 130 pitches?

1998 Yankees · 10-20-2011, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tejdog1

Yeah, I see the 3 pitches all with potential to be plus or better, the movement, the control, and I just... I gotta try it, even if I have a good example of it being disasterous (Brant Rustich) with the Mets in recent years. Could it work if I set a pitch count on him, of like... 50 or 60? And slowly increase it, so the AI manager isn't throwing him 130 pitches?

I tell ya, the game is going to rate him as a starter if those pitches get better, despite the low stamina, unless they tweaked the design a bit. It just does not make sense. I ignore the starter designation if I see a red or orange number for stamina.

Sure, you can set a pitch count that low on him but what's the sense then of making him a SP? And I forget whether you can build up a player's stamina that way; I think not.

Besides, I think he would be a good set up man, if not the closer, if he works up to his potential.

tejdog1 · 10-20-2011, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I tell ya, the game is going to rate him as a starter if those pitches get better, despite the low stamina, unless they tweaked the design a bit. It just does not make sense. I ignore the starter designation if I see a red or orange number for stamina.

Sure, you can set a pitch count that low on him but what's the sense then of making him a SP? And I forget whether you can build up a player's stamina that way; I think not.

Besides, I think he would be a good set up man, if not the closer, if he works up to his potential.

Oh, definitely, he'll make a damn good nasty closer (KRod in his prime with much better control) - but why try to make him a starter first? Three plus pitches, plus movement, plus plus control = makings of an ace starter. Plus, relieving is always there for him to fall back on if his stamina just doesn't increase.

1998 Yankees · 10-20-2011, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tejdog1

Oh, definitely, he'll make a damn good nasty closer (KRod in his prime with much better control) - but why try to make him a starter first? Three plus pitches, plus movement, plus plus control = makings of an ace starter. Plus, relieving is always there for him to fall back on if his stamina just doesn't increase.

Good luck! It would be interesting if you posted back here with the results (assuming your league moves along at a reasonable pace). PM me if you do, please - I'd like to see what happened to him.

tejdog1 · 10-20-2011, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Good luck! It would be interesting if you posted back here with the results (assuming your league moves along at a reasonable pace). PM me if you do, please - I'd like to see what happened to him.

Sure, I'll keep updating the thread with results

I usually sim, anyway, so I usually go through a year in a week or two.

Qwerty75 · 10-21-2011, 12:06 AM

The threshold for starters' endurance is 50 in the editor, which translates to 25/100. If Mad Max's evaluation is accurate, he will only be able to throw 50-odd pitches before he gets tired. Being on the border for starters' endurance, Chavez could get a bump in stamina somewhere along the line that puts him over the top, but it doesn't look like he has enough at the time of your last scouting report.

mouse001 · 10-21-2011, 01:55 PM

Looks like he got shelled in high school...as a reliever

tejdog1 · 10-21-2011, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mouse001

Looks like he got shelled in high school...as a reliever

lol, yeah.

Update: I fired my scout (as I'd always planned to do, if a better one appeared midseason), and got a new one and he hates Chavez, but I'm hoping his ratings will trend upwards with time.

He's 2-5, but with a 3.68 era in 12 starts (44 innings), 59 hits, 18 earned, 21/37 bb/k, .393 BABIP

1998 Yankees · 10-22-2011, 01:35 PM

I see he's been starting since June 22 based on your note about his 2-5 record and the beginning of a GSC rating.

This is what I'm saying about guys like this being rated as starters by the game (which I really think was a bad design decision to change, by the way). Most of the time, he cannot get out of the fourth inning!

Even when he's dominant (in his two W's), he cannot get through the sixth. He's going to have a lopsided W/L record because a starter has to finish the fifth in order to get the win. But he'll get the L when he's bad, regardless.

Interesting experiment, though. Has the game officially rated him as a starter yet? Or is this merely your own brainstorm idea still?

tejdog1 · 10-22-2011, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I see he's been starting since June 22 based on your note about his 2-5 record and the beginning of a GSC rating.

This is what I'm saying about guys like this being rated as starters by the game (which I really think was a bad design decision to change, by the way). Most of the time, he cannot get out of the fourth inning!

Even when he's dominant (in his two W's), he cannot get through the sixth. He's going to have a lopsided W/L record because a starter has to finish the fifth in order to get the win. But he'll get the L when he's bad, regardless.

Interesting experiment, though. Has the game officially rated him as a starter yet? Or is this merely your own brainstorm idea still?

My own brainstorm. As I said, I fired my scout shortly after the draft, and my new scout is not nearly as in love with Chavez as my old scout/me.

1998 Yankees · 10-22-2011, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tejdog1

My own brainstorm. As I said, I fired my scout shortly after the draft, and my new scout is not nearly as in love with Chavez as my old scout/me.

Heh, I can see your owner being characterized as "Furious" with you!

Yikes, did you notice, by the way, that his stamina has decreased?

tejdog1 · 10-23-2011, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Heh, I can see your owner being characterized as "Furious" with you!

Yikes, did you notice, by the way, that his stamina has decreased?

Wilpon's getting to be ornery in his old age, and yeah, I noticed. No idea why, but I'm going to keep pushing for Chavez as a starter.

tejdog1 · 10-29-2011, 06:58 AM

Updating as requested:

He played 2034 in Kingsport, with a 70 PC for the first half of the season, then an 85 for the second half, which apparently the AI ignores, anyway >.>

1998 Yankees · 10-29-2011, 04:48 PM

I just realized a couple of things:

You started with this guy just out of high school; I missed that in the first screen. Now he cannot get out of rookie league.
Two different scouts were involved. The first guy, Scherzer, seems to have blown it when he rated this player as high potential. Turner rated him lower and his latest assessment is lower still.

At 21, with ratings and numbers like these in rookie league, Chavez looks like one of those players that I clean out in advance of the upcoming amateur draft.

I wonder, though, whether your [mis]handling of him had anything to do with his lack of success and a premature retirement from professional baseball, his once stellar high school potential unfulfilled. Was it you? Was it YOU??

tejdog1 · 10-29-2011, 05:53 PM

Maybe, it very well could've been me. OSA didn't like him at all, ever.

Still, he's 21 in Brooklyn, which is right on pace, IMO.

Qwerty75 · 10-29-2011, 09:35 PM

I'm surprised you've gotten as many as 98 pitches from this guy; maybe the way 12 handles pitcher endurance is different from how 11 does. If his control develops, there's a possibility he could be a 5+ inning starter in the majors.

RamMan12 · 11-03-2011, 06:33 AM

Just so you know, in leagues with scouting, you can find out the real stamina by checking the bnn player page. I've found that pitchers may have a scouted stamina up to 10 points off from their actual stamina. Also, the bnn player page is always right on with the editor when i've checked.

OutS|der · 11-03-2011, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwerty75

The threshold for starters' endurance is 50 in the editor, which translates to 25/100. If Mad Max's evaluation is accurate, he will only be able to throw 50-odd pitches before he gets tired. Being on the border for starters' endurance, Chavez could get a bump in stamina somewhere along the line that puts him over the top, but it doesn't look like he has enough at the time of your last scouting report.

From the OOTP manual
The bare minimum endurance (now called Stamina) needed in order to start is 25 on a 1-100 scale, but most starters should have at least a 50

So a starter can have a stamina of 25 in the editor and still be a starter but he wouldn't last very long.

I'd ethier edit him to have resonable stamina if you want him to start since in rl he would have better stamina anyways if he was a starter otherwise i'd leave him as a RP as he would be an ace closer with those ratings

10-20-2011, 10:19 PM	#1
tejdog1 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Danbury, CT Posts: 1,644	Am I gonna have success converting this guy from RP to SP? Or am I just gonna get his arm blown out or something? __________________ It's amazing How you make your face just like a wall How you take your heart and turn it off How I turn my head and lose it all And it's unnerving How just one move puts me by myself There you go just trusting someone else Now I know I put us both through hell ~Matchbox 20, "Leave" Everyone knows it's spelled "TRAID", not trade

10-20-2011, 10:25 PM	#2
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	I'll tell you one thing. Much as I respect the design of this game, I never pay attention to it evaluating a pitcher with 22 stamina as a "starter." It just is not realistic and this is usually demonstrated in the games he starts from which he departs after 3 innings or so, "exhausted." You try to stretch him and, yeah, I would say he'd be prone to injury. In this case, though, I see the game tags him as "bullpen" despite having three potentially good pitches. I think you should go with that suggestion. Watch the game rate him as starter once those pitches develop, however. Last edited by 1998 Yankees; 10-20-2011 at 10:27 PM.

10-21-2011, 12:06 AM	#8
Qwerty75 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 817	The threshold for starters' endurance is 50 in the editor, which translates to 25/100. If Mad Max's evaluation is accurate, he will only be able to throw 50-odd pitches before he gets tired. Being on the border for starters' endurance, Chavez could get a bump in stamina somewhere along the line that puts him over the top, but it doesn't look like he has enough at the time of your last scouting report. __________________

10-29-2011, 06:58 AM	#15
tejdog1 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Danbury, CT Posts: 1,644	Updating as requested: He played 2034 in Kingsport, with a 70 PC for the first half of the season, then an 85 for the second half, which apparently the AI ignores, anyway >.> __________________ It's amazing How you make your face just like a wall How you take your heart and turn it off How I turn my head and lose it all And it's unnerving How just one move puts me by myself There you go just trusting someone else Now I know I put us both through hell ~Matchbox 20, "Leave" Everyone knows it's spelled "TRAID", not trade

10-29-2011, 04:48 PM	#16
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	I just realized a couple of things: You started with this guy just out of high school; I missed that in the first screen. Now he cannot get out of rookie league. Two different scouts were involved. The first guy, Scherzer, seems to have blown it when he rated this player as high potential. Turner rated him lower and his latest assessment is lower still. At 21, with ratings and numbers like these in rookie league, Chavez looks like one of those players that I clean out in advance of the upcoming amateur draft. I wonder, though, whether your [mis]handling of him had anything to do with his lack of success and a premature retirement from professional baseball, his once stellar high school potential unfulfilled. Was it you? Was it YOU?? Last edited by 1998 Yankees; 10-29-2011 at 04:50 PM.

10-21-2011, 01:55 PM	#9
mouse001 Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 343	Looks like he got shelled in high school...as a reliever

10-22-2011, 01:35 PM	#11
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	I see he's been starting since June 22 based on your note about his 2-5 record and the beginning of a GSC rating. This is what I'm saying about guys like this being rated as starters by the game (which I really think was a bad design decision to change, by the way). Most of the time, he cannot get out of the fourth inning! Even when he's dominant (in his two W's), he cannot get through the sixth. He's going to have a lopsided W/L record because a starter has to finish the fifth in order to get the win. But he'll get the L when he's bad, regardless. Interesting experiment, though. Has the game officially rated him as a starter yet? Or is this merely your own brainstorm idea still?

10-29-2011, 05:53 PM	#17
tejdog1 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Danbury, CT Posts: 1,644	Maybe, it very well could've been me. OSA didn't like him at all, ever. Still, he's 21 in Brooklyn, which is right on pace, IMO. __________________ It's amazing How you make your face just like a wall How you take your heart and turn it off How I turn my head and lose it all And it's unnerving How just one move puts me by myself There you go just trusting someone else Now I know I put us both through hell ~Matchbox 20, "Leave" Everyone knows it's spelled "TRAID", not trade

10-29-2011, 09:35 PM	#18
Qwerty75 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 817	I'm surprised you've gotten as many as 98 pitches from this guy; maybe the way 12 handles pitcher endurance is different from how 11 does. If his control develops, there's a possibility he could be a 5+ inning starter in the majors. __________________

11-03-2011, 06:33 AM	#19
RamMan12 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Maine Posts: 482	Just so you know, in leagues with scouting, you can find out the real stamina by checking the bnn player page. I've found that pitchers may have a scouted stamina up to 10 points off from their actual stamina. Also, the bnn player page is always right on with the editor when i've checked.