Brady suspension tossed

[Cobra Mgr]

Judge vacates Tom Brady's 4-game suspension - CNN.com

Can't be surprised. Goodell has yet to win in the courts. This why I say again the NFLPA is the stupidest union in American sports.

[RchW]

So the NFLPA took the NFL to court, won and they are stupid. NFL owners paying this Goodell buffoon $40M per year are the definition of stupid.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by RchW

So the NFLPA took the NFL to court, won and they are stupid. NFL owners paying this Goodell buffoon $40M per year are the definition of stupid.

I don't think they are dumb for taking him to court. They are dumb for allowing Goodell to be prosecutor, judge, jury & executioner in the conduct policy. They are dumb for letting the NFL use their breaking of the law as a bargaining chip during the last labor negotiations. Goodell is a goofball who couldn't figure out the ingredients to a PB & J sandwich. Why give him dictator powers of your own free will? Why bend over & take it when they are locking you out? Enforcing policy on the field should be the most basic of his duties & he screws that up. How are you going to let him run over you off the field?

[jaxmagicman]

It doesn't bother me that the suspension was overturned. What bothers me is people saying this exonerates Brady.

No it doesn't. The only thing the judge ruled on was if the suspension was legal under the CBA. He didn't rule on Brady's guilt at all. Brady is a guilty of cheating, the Wells Report shows that. But there was nothing the NFL could have done about it outside of fine him because there were no penalties set in place for this. That was Brady's argument from the beginning. He cheated and got away with it. Let's move on.

[CD1083]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

IHe cheated and got away with it. Let's move on.

.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I don't think they are dumb for taking him to court. They are dumb for allowing Goodell to be prosecutor, judge, jury & executioner in the conduct policy. They are dumb for letting the NFL use their breaking of the law as a bargaining chip during the last labor negotiations. Goodell is a goofball who couldn't figure out the ingredients to a PB & J sandwich. Why give him dictator powers of your own free will? Why bend over & take it when they are locking you out? Enforcing policy on the field should be the most basic of his duties & he screws that up. How are you going to let him run over you off the field?

I'm just not getting you. This is a massive embarrassment again for the NFL ans the fact that they will appeal and lose again just proves how incompetent this league is.

NFLPA issues outside this and in collective bargaining are a different subject and don't pertain to this debacle.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

It doesn't bother me that the suspension was overturned. What bothers me is people saying this exonerates Brady.

No it doesn't. The only thing the judge ruled on was if the suspension was legal under the CBA. He didn't rule on Brady's guilt at all. Brady is a guilty of cheating, the Wells Report shows that. But there was nothing the NFL could have done about it outside of fine him because there were no penalties set in place for this. That was Brady's argument from the beginning. He cheated and got away with it. Let's move on.

That's just BS. The league the commissioner and I suppose some whinging owners wanted to punish Brady for their incompetence. When you overstep your legal limits and try to punish something for which there was no punishment other than a fine you should be slapped down hard. This was an abuse of process and the court correctly saw through the BS. The judge warned the NFL that he was likely to rule against them but they were too arrogant to admit they were wrong and to negotiate a settlement. Brady of course had no reason to compromise given the improper process. The judge didn't need to rule on Brady's supposed guilt because no proper charge was made nor evidence introduced. Brady had nothing to answer for.

I'm not a Brady or a Pat's fan. Just someone who doesn't like bullies with no brains.

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by RchW

That's just BS. The league the commissioner and I suppose some whinging owners wanted to punish Brady for their incompetence. When you overstep your legal limits and try to punish something for which there was no punishment other than a fine you should be slapped down hard. This was an abuse of process and the court correctly saw through the BS. The judge warned the NFL that he was likely to rule against them but they were too arrogant to admit they were wrong and to negotiate a settlement. Brady of course had no reason to compromise given the improper process. The judge didn't need to rule on Brady's supposed guilt because no proper charge was made nor evidence introduced. Brady had nothing to answer for.

I'm not a Brady or a Pat's fan. Just someone who doesn't like bullies with no brains.

We said the exact same thing. I'm not sure why you think I don't agree with you.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by RchW

I'm just not getting you. This is a massive embarrassment again for the NFL ans the fact that they will appeal and lose again just proves how incompetent this league is.

NFLPA issues outside this and in collective bargaining are a different subject and don't pertain to this debacle.

It does pertain, since I started the thread. Therefore, I can make it about what I want. If you want to cover a different angle, then by all means, start another thread.

What I'm saying is Goodell is such a screwup, how the NFLPA has ended up, by far, the weakest player's union in team sports is almost unfathomable.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

We said the exact same thing. I'm not sure why you think I don't agree with you.

Because Brady didn't cheat and was exonerated. I'd say that's substantial disagreement.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I don't think they are dumb for taking him to court. They are dumb for allowing Goodell to be prosecutor, judge, jury & executioner in the conduct policy. They are dumb for letting the NFL use their breaking of the law as a bargaining chip during the last labor negotiations. Goodell is a goofball who couldn't figure out the ingredients to a PB & J sandwich. Why give him dictator powers of your own free will? Why bend over & take it when they are locking you out? Enforcing policy on the field should be the most basic of his duties & he screws that up. How are you going to let him run over you off the field?

If you look at the net result, they are very smart. They gave Goodell all these power as an exchange for other things, and then Goodell found out in court what's given to him by NFLPA isn't useful. Goodell got a check that he couldn't cash.

[rudel.dietrich]

I still have issue with 'more probable than not' being the basis of an investigation.

But I also find it odd that the Patriots are not contesting the loss of two draft picks. Especially since the Wells report goes to great pains to find that the Patriots as an organization did not deliberately attempt to circumvent any rule.
Why are they not contesting the loss of picks?

I agree with the notion that the NFLPA is a weak union simply over the fact the NFL contracts are not fully guaranteed.

But the popularity of the entire sports is baffling to me. I understand it and I lived in the US for 10 years so I 'get football' but for me it does not make for a very good TV sport.

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by RchW

Because Brady didn't cheat and was exonerated. I'd say that's substantial disagreement.

The patriots were fined and punished and didn't even appeal. They knew something was wrong. They fired 2 employees over it. There is no way in hell that those guys messed with Brady's balls without his permission. He cheated. He just did it in a way that he couldn't be punished.

[Jason Moyer]

Brady did something tons of other QB's have done, was made an example by Goodell and given an unprecedented punishment, especially when the punishment was for "being generally aware of something happening" and didn't indicate that Brady was specifically guilty of anything.

Christ, the Patriots beat my team in the Super Bowl the year that whatever-gate broke (once again, it makes no sense to put "gate" at the end of everything) and I still don't understand the amount of bitterness people have towards them. To the best of my knowledge, the Patriots have never been caught doing anything that your/my favorite team wasn't also doing.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

The patriots were fined and punished and didn't even appeal. They knew something was wrong. They fired 2 employees over it. There is no way in hell that those guys messed with Brady's balls without his permission. He cheated. He just did it in a way that he couldn't be punished.

And I still disagree with what you say.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

If you look at the net result, they are very smart. They gave Goodell all these power as an exchange for other things, and then Goodell found out in court what's given to him by NFLPA isn't useful. Goodell got a check that he couldn't cash.

Tell that to Ben Rothleisberger. Dude got suspended based on the same amount of evidence that was on Brady. "More probable than not". Do we remember how the conduct policy came about? Largely because PacMan Jones kept getting charged but not convicted. Again, "more probable than not". What makes it maddening is that Ben's"crime" shouldn't have been under the NFL's scope while Brady's should be. If in any area the commish should be given a blank check on discipline, it would be the stuff that happens in the stadium. Instead, the NFLPA gave him full power over things that happen outside of it.

But the NFLPA can no longer fight it because they gave him that power in the CBA.

[Jason Moyer]

Ben probably should have fought the suspension instead of accepting it (which was essentially an admission of guilt). Then again, the NFL's disciplinary procedures in regards to what he was suspended for are much more clearly defined in the collective bargaining agreement.

The thing with the Brady ruling is that it isn't about his guilt or innocence or the ethics of what he allegedly did; it's about Roger Goodell going beyond the disciplinary process that was collectively bargained with the union.

Edit: To complicate things further, Ben's suspension was given under the old contract wasn't it? TBH all I can remember about that situation is that he pretty clearly committed a crime and the responding officer decided to take selfies with Ben instead of taking the accuser's allegations seriously.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

Ben probably should have fought the suspension instead of accepting it (which was essentially an admission of guilt). Then again, the NFL's disciplinary procedures in regards to what he was suspended for are much more clearly defined in the collective bargaining agreement.

The thing with the Brady ruling is that it isn't about his guilt or innocence or the ethics of what he allegedly did; it's about Roger Goodell going beyond the disciplinary process that was collectively bargained with the union.

Edit: To complicate things further, Ben's suspension was given under the old contract wasn't it? TBH all I can remember about that situation is that he pretty clearly committed a crime and the responding officer decided to take selfies with Ben instead of taking the accuser's allegations seriously.

If he clearly committed the crime, why was he never brought to trial? My point all along is there was no pressure to allow Goodell to do what he was allowed to do. Its as if the NFLPA was afraid Goodell would shoot them even though they knew he had no gun.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

If he clearly committed the crime, why was he never brought to trial? My point all along is there was no pressure to allow Goodell to do what he was allowed to do. Its as if the NFLPA was afraid Goodell would shoot them even though they knew he had no gun.

All sorts of crimes are never brought to trial. Especially when the suspect is rich, famous and white.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Tell that to Ben Rothleisberger. Dude got suspended based on the same amount of evidence that was on Brady. "More probable than not". Do we remember how the conduct policy came about? Largely because PacMan Jones kept getting charged but not convicted. Again, "more probable than not". What makes it maddening is that Ben's"crime" shouldn't have been under the NFL's scope while Brady's should be. If in any area the commish should be given a blank check on discipline, it would be the stuff that happens in the stadium. Instead, the NFLPA gave him full power over things that happen outside of it.

But the NFLPA can no longer fight it because they gave him that power in the CBA.

You got it the opposite way. Because of all those incidents, NFL asked for more authority to punish the players. NFLPA gave NFL some authority in the last CBA, but challenged many NFL decisions. NFLPA did not give up fighting, just changed the way it fights.

Just look at this Brady incident. NFLPA is part of the party that beat NFL in arbitration.

It's NFL that got duped thinking they got more power from NFLPA, but in reality it doesn't. It also didn't get NFLPA to stop challenging its authority.

If Rothleisberger's incident happens now, NFL would actually be in a worse situation to handle it, because as many recent cases shown, more "power" by NFL office actually means more of their decisions got struck down in court. In the past, when NFL does not own as much "power", basically all league punishments came with buy-in from more parties by default, therefore less chance of going to courts and less fights from NFLPA. Now with NFLPA washed its hands from all punishment decisions, every single one can be challenged by NFLPA with the reasoning of "NFL abusing its power".