I just don't get it (OVR ratings)

Rosco Peabody · 04-10-2018, 05:15 PM

I just don't get how Navarro is rated much higher than Whatman. Look at the stats. If you saw those stats in real life, Navarro would NEVER start over Whatman...

Yet the computer starts Navarro.

To add another layer, Whatman is a vary popular player who has been an Allstar several times and is in the top 4 of the league in career hits.

Who do you think should start Whatman or Navarro?

Rosco Peabody · 04-10-2018, 05:17 PM

Here are the screen shots

Rosco Peabody · 04-10-2018, 05:18 PM

Remember, look at the current stats

drhay53 · 04-10-2018, 05:37 PM

Honestly, I'm betting you're running into one of the lineup bugs that is currently being discussed. There seem to be potentially two; one involving what seems to be a fatigue issue, and one that seems to revolve around the depth chart settings.

stealofhome · 04-10-2018, 05:38 PM

Defense/baserunning/eye must be that much better. The difference in OBP is much smaller than the difference in AVG and if you look at WAR, Navarro is actually higher.

Rosco Peabody · 04-10-2018, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stealofhome

Defense/baserunning/eye must be that much better. The difference in OBP is much smaller than the difference in AVG and if you look at WAR, Navarro is actually higher.

Yeah I saw that WAR was better, but the OBP is over 50 pts better, which is a big deal to me.
Plus, I really can't picture a player with basically no power being allowed to stay in a lineup while batting barely over .200 and with an OBP less than .300 when there's a proven allstar batting over .300 with an OBP over .350 behind him.

Rain King · 04-10-2018, 05:56 PM

What are your player evaluation percentages? If you want the AI to take into account more stats then you need to increase that stats percentage. They are very different players with very different strengths/weaknesses, so that makes this tougher to judge as well. Based on Ratings, Navarro is the better player. The difference in their defensive abilities is huge.

Rosco Peabody · 04-10-2018, 06:10 PM

The crazy part was that under previous OOTPs (before 2018), Whatman was considered between a 75-80 OVR.

His EYE has dropped about 10 pts since then and Defense has dropped a little bit too, but not a major amount and now he's a 38 out of 80?

r0nster · 04-10-2018, 06:41 PM

instead of stars you decided to do number ratings as to the growth to his expected talent level

timmermac · 04-10-2018, 07:02 PM

Navarro seems to be much better defensively, and seems to have more pop than Whatman. I'd play Navarro.

r0nster · 04-10-2018, 07:06 PM

I would move one of their positions to CF or RF if your other two spots are weak

Rosco Peabody · 04-10-2018, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0nster

I would move one of their positions to CF or RF if your other two spots are weak

I would, but this is a CPU roster and it's just killing me to see this top of the market (last season he made $22,500,000) player just sitting on the bench while he still producing in place of a lower guy

Rosco Peabody · 04-10-2018, 07:17 PM

Disregard OOTP for a second. Which guy would start IN REAL LIFE

timmermac · 04-10-2018, 07:20 PM

I'd still go with Navarro. He has more pop at a corner outfield position and is a superior defender. Whatman could be invaluable as a pinch-hitter.

Rosco Peabody · 04-10-2018, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmermac

I'd still go with Navarro. He has more pop at a corner outfield position and is a superior defender. Whatman could be invaluable as a pinch-hitter.

You're looking at ratings though. Look at the stats. Navarro has only has 7 HRs compared to 1 for Whatman. That's barely a difference. Yes, he is a better defender, but there's no way a .203 BA .312 OBP guy starts over a .320 BA .353 OBP guy

Hotwheelz · 04-10-2018, 07:39 PM

I'd be tempted to go with Navarro as well. Whatman is projected to get caught stealing 40 times. 24 walks in 479 AB compared to 71 in 466 for Navarro. And he's not just a better defender. He seems to be a world class defender.

That OBP advantage for Whatman is driven by AVG.

timmermac · 04-10-2018, 08:50 PM

If Navarro hit .300, his on base percentage would be over .400. He is a superior defender. Whatman, at this stage of his career, should not be playing the outfield at all, ever.

discodude5 · 04-10-2018, 09:20 PM

If I'm real life GM based on stats I go with Whatman. He's a great #1 or 2 hitter.

Izz · 04-10-2018, 09:59 PM

IRL, I'd go with Whatman too, mainly because I think a .300+ BA is really pretty

In my anecdotal in-game observations, the AI always seems to value mediocre contact/high eye guys over high contact/poor eye guys if the mediocre contact guy has either good HR power or good gap power.

Navarro is a stellar defender and a captain personality type, too... Almost good enough to be a CF. Who is the AI playing at CF?

EDIT: Also, Whatman is one of the palest Jamaican's I've ever seen...

spleen1015 · 04-10-2018, 10:13 PM

Navarro is also 7 years younger. He's on the right side of 30.

View Poll Results: Whatman or Navarro?
Start Henry Whatman	12	36.36%
Start Juan Navarro	21	63.64%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

04-10-2018, 05:17 PM	#2
Rosco Peabody All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: South of Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 1,092	Here are the screen shots Last edited by Rosco Peabody; 09-13-2018 at 09:47 PM.

04-10-2018, 07:02 PM	#10
timmermac Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 449	Navarro seems to be much better defensively, and seems to have more pop than Whatman. I'd play Navarro. __________________ Running with the 1950 Braves. Crush the baseball. Drive it before you. And hear the lamentation of the opponent's women. I am king of the diamond! Let there be a grand clubhouse feast! Bring me the finest meats and cheeses in all the land!

04-10-2018, 07:20 PM	#14
timmermac Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 449	I'd still go with Navarro. He has more pop at a corner outfield position and is a superior defender. Whatman could be invaluable as a pinch-hitter. __________________ Running with the 1950 Braves. Crush the baseball. Drive it before you. And hear the lamentation of the opponent's women. I am king of the diamond! Let there be a grand clubhouse feast! Bring me the finest meats and cheeses in all the land! Last edited by timmermac; 04-10-2018 at 07:23 PM. Reason: Whatman probably should not be allowed to appear defensively.

04-10-2018, 07:39 PM	#16
Hotwheelz All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 1,620	I'd be tempted to go with Navarro as well. Whatman is projected to get caught stealing 40 times. 24 walks in 479 AB compared to 71 in 466 for Navarro. And he's not just a better defender. He seems to be a world class defender. That OBP advantage for Whatman is driven by AVG. __________________ "It's a great day for a ballgame; let's play two." Ernie Banks

04-10-2018, 05:15 PM	#1
Rosco Peabody All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: South of Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 1,092	I just don't get it (OVR ratings) I just don't get how Navarro is rated much higher than Whatman. Look at the stats. If you saw those stats in real life, Navarro would NEVER start over Whatman... Yet the computer starts Navarro. To add another layer, Whatman is a vary popular player who has been an Allstar several times and is in the top 4 of the league in career hits. Who do you think should start Whatman or Navarro?

04-10-2018, 05:18 PM	#3
Rosco Peabody All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: South of Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 1,092	Remember, look at the current stats

04-10-2018, 05:37 PM	#4
drhay53 Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 355	Honestly, I'm betting you're running into one of the lineup bugs that is currently being discussed. There seem to be potentially two; one involving what seems to be a fatigue issue, and one that seems to revolve around the depth chart settings.

04-10-2018, 05:38 PM	#5
stealofhome Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,282	Defense/baserunning/eye must be that much better. The difference in OBP is much smaller than the difference in AVG and if you look at WAR, Navarro is actually higher.

04-10-2018, 05:56 PM	#7
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,072 Infractions: 1/1 (1)	What are your player evaluation percentages? If you want the AI to take into account more stats then you need to increase that stats percentage. They are very different players with very different strengths/weaknesses, so that makes this tougher to judge as well. Based on Ratings, Navarro is the better player. The difference in their defensive abilities is huge.

04-10-2018, 06:10 PM	#8
Rosco Peabody All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: South of Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 1,092	The crazy part was that under previous OOTPs (before 2018), Whatman was considered between a 75-80 OVR. His EYE has dropped about 10 pts since then and Defense has dropped a little bit too, but not a major amount and now he's a 38 out of 80?

04-10-2018, 06:41 PM	#9
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,047	instead of stars you decided to do number ratings as to the growth to his expected talent level

04-10-2018, 07:06 PM	#11
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,047	I would move one of their positions to CF or RF if your other two spots are weak

04-10-2018, 07:17 PM	#13
Rosco Peabody All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: South of Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 1,092	Disregard OOTP for a second. Which guy would start IN REAL LIFE

04-10-2018, 08:50 PM	#17
timmermac Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 449	If Navarro hit .300, his on base percentage would be over .400. He is a superior defender. Whatman, at this stage of his career, should not be playing the outfield at all, ever. __________________ Running with the 1950 Braves. Crush the baseball. Drive it before you. And hear the lamentation of the opponent's women. I am king of the diamond! Let there be a grand clubhouse feast! Bring me the finest meats and cheeses in all the land!

04-10-2018, 09:20 PM	#18
discodude5 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 370	If I'm real life GM based on stats I go with Whatman. He's a great #1 or 2 hitter.

04-10-2018, 09:59 PM	#19
Izz Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,469	IRL, I'd go with Whatman too, mainly because I think a .300+ BA is really pretty In my anecdotal in-game observations, the AI always seems to value mediocre contact/high eye guys over high contact/poor eye guys if the mediocre contact guy has either good HR power or good gap power. Navarro is a stellar defender and a captain personality type, too... Almost good enough to be a CF. Who is the AI playing at CF? EDIT: Also, Whatman is one of the palest Jamaican's I've ever seen... __________________ Not only do I play OOTP but I also write science-fiction: My Website A brief history of the Australia-New Zealand Baseball League (AUNZBL 2019-2119)--A Dynasty Report The National Penterham Four-Bases Association--A Dynasty Report Last edited by Izz; 04-10-2018 at 10:07 PM.

04-10-2018, 10:13 PM	#20
spleen1015 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5,999	Navarro is also 7 years younger. He's on the right side of 30.