Bench players playing too often

desertnomad · 04-09-2018, 06:45 PM

I'll have a guy on my bench set to start every 15 days and he'll get 400 at bats and take time away from the guy I want to start. Something is broken.

actionjackson · 04-09-2018, 06:54 PM

Please see here, and here, and let me know if this is similar to what you're seeing. I think we've already got three threads going on this (including this one), and one guy (DCG12) apparently posted about it in the beta forum and alerted Markus and Matt to the issue. Hopefully they'll get on it, but it didn't make it into this patch unfortunately.

desertnomad · 04-09-2018, 07:03 PM

I don't think it's a fatigue issue. I think the AI thinks the bench player is better and should be starting. My starting position players shouldn't be limited to 300-350 ABs due to fatigue. The bench player acts more like a platoon player.

actionjackson · 04-09-2018, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertnomad

I don't think it's a fatigue issue. I think the AI thinks the bench player is better and should be starting. My starting position players shouldn't be limited to 300-350 ABs due to fatigue. The bench player acts more like a platoon player.

Check out the AI teams in your league too. I think you might find that it is a fatigue issue. What happens is the AI sees that the player is tired and sticks him on the bench to start the game. But then because he's a good player, the AI calls on him to pinch hit later in the game, and then he's tired for the next game, lather, rinse, repeat. I've seen it happen to very good players (i.e. guys who should be starting) 5 or 6 games in a row. If it isn't a fatigue issue, then there are two separate issues that need addressing.

drhay53 · 04-09-2018, 07:24 PM

I am still not convinced that my submitted bug is actually a fatigue issue, because the bench player in question is alternating between starting at two positions and the starters have 100% rested status in a DH only league (so they're not pinch-hitting a lot, which seems to be part of the fatigue bug)... however, I am very glad that other people are noticing issues as well, because I can't play until this is sorted out

desertnomad · 04-09-2018, 07:34 PM

As you can see from this upload, My starting 2B only started 91 games. My starting 3B only started 87 games. My starting SS started 87 games. Meanwhile my bench 2B started 153 games and my bench SS started 150 games.

This is not fatigue.

itsmb8 · 04-09-2018, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertnomad

As you can see from this upload, My starting 2B only started 91 games. My starting 3B only started 87 games. My starting SS started 87 games. Meanwhile my bench 2B started 153 games and my bench SS started 150 games.

This is not fatigue.

Maybe its because your starters were underperforming?

desertnomad · 04-09-2018, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsmb8

Maybe its because your starters were underperforming?

That's not for the AI to decide. I've set my bench players to start every 10 days. The user should have control, not AI.

drhay53 · 04-09-2018, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertnomad

As you can see from this upload, My starting 2B only started 91 games. My starting 3B only started 87 games. My starting SS started 87 games. Meanwhile my bench 2B started 153 games and my bench SS started 150 games.

This is not fatigue.

The fatigue issue that is mentioned is a bug, obviously it's not being suggested that fatigue is causing this correctly.

The issue with fatigue that people have noticed is something like:
-A player rests due to fatigue. But he pinch hits or somehow plays still.
- since he played, he's incorrectly treated as still fatigued. So he doesn't start the next game either
- keep going until he doesn't play at all, so that his fatigued status is reset.

People are seeing starters with way more games played than games started, and that's how this particular bug is being noticed.

I think that what you're reporting is exactly the same as what I've posted here:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=288042

I'm not convinced it's related to the above-mentioned fatigue issue, but I'm not convinced it's not. However, since I heavily rotate my team, I would be very, very surprised if any of my players were actually getting to fatigued status. I think it's some other bug that is causing the 2nd player on multiple depth chart positions to alternate playing those positions every day.

drhay53 · 04-09-2018, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsmb8

Maybe its because your starters were underperforming?

This is not what's happening. In my case, the SS that's being sat every other day was on pace for a 5 WAR season (I converted the season from 18 to 19 in June of the current season). He's still playing great. The other player is also on pace for a 3.5 WAR season. It's not performance-related.

And, even if it were, my settings do not allow the AI manager to make pre-game lineup decisions.

actionjackson · 04-09-2018, 08:01 PM

Ok, I think we've got two different issues here. Ugh.

drhay53 · 04-09-2018, 08:04 PM

Not trying to pile on the devs or anything, but I strongly believe people who have leagues they really care about should probably stop playing until this is sorted out. Lots of players are going to miss half-seasons due to this, and that's really going to affect alot of stats.

actionjackson · 04-09-2018, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drhay53

Not trying to pile on the devs or anything, but I strongly believe people who have leagues they really care about should probably stop playing until this is sorted out. Lots of players are going to miss half-seasons due to this, and that's really going to affect alot of stats.

Yep. Makes sense to me. I run test leagues for the first bit of every development cycle in anticipation of bugs that need squishing cropping up.

Gorinski · 04-09-2018, 08:28 PM

I just noticed this too with one of my OFs. He should be starting at least 80% of the time but is only starting 1/3 of the games.

MizzouRah · 04-09-2018, 08:58 PM

I think I'm seeing the same thing as the OP.

What I just noticed in a brief look at the players the manager was starting in my last game as I was replacing them with starters, every one of them had a better BA than the starter, didn't matter that the replacement had a small sample size of stats.

drhay53 · 04-09-2018, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I think I'm seeing the same thing as the OP.

What I just noticed in a brief look at the players the manager was starting in my last game as I was replacing them with starters, every one of them had a better BA than the starter, didn't matter that the replacement had a small sample size of stats.

definitely not the case for me. Backup has a lower BA than both starters, by far. He is a better defender though, at one of the positions, and perhaps at the 2nd depending on how the AI evaluates things.

LloydLungs · 04-09-2018, 10:27 PM

I'm seeing this issue as well. It's not fatigue. And I am playing in legacy mode that gives the GM control over lineups.

I think it improves if you don't do the "start every x days" with the backups and just make them "start when starter is tired," but I'm not sure. That requires you to be a lot more hands-on day-to-day, though. And I'm not sure it's a cure-all solution either but it felt like it helped for me.

MizzouRah · 04-09-2018, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drhay53

definitely not the case for me. Backup has a lower BA than both starters, by far. He is a better defender though, at one of the positions, and perhaps at the 2nd depending on how the AI evaluates things.

Mine was a very SMALL sample size.

I've just noticed Fowler not playing as much so I decided to play a game to change the selections even though he's listed as the starter. I noticed a couple other starters as well sitting the bench. Each of them had a higher BA.. but just a coincidence.

UltimateAverageGuy · 04-09-2018, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

I'm seeing this issue as well. It's not fatigue. And I am playing in legacy mode that gives the GM control over lineups.

I think it improves if you don't do the "start every x days" with the backups and just make them "start when starter is tired," but I'm not sure. That requires you to be a lot more hands-on day-to-day, though. And I'm not sure it's a cure-all solution either but it felt like it helped for me.

This is exactly what I do. My Mets were 11 games under playing the bench guys so much, i changed it and ended the season 9 games over

drhay53 · 04-09-2018, 11:37 PM

Also play with legacy option for lineup and rotation control as GM only. Here's the thread in the bugs forum that I started: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=288042

Now that lot's of people are seeing issues, I'm sure this'll get noticed and fixed.

04-09-2018, 06:45 PM	#1
desertnomad Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 47	Bench players playing too often I'll have a guy on my bench set to start every 15 days and he'll get 400 at bats and take time away from the guy I want to start. Something is broken.

04-09-2018, 07:34 PM	#6
desertnomad Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 47	As you can see from this upload, My starting 2B only started 91 games. My starting 3B only started 87 games. My starting SS started 87 games. Meanwhile my bench 2B started 153 games and my bench SS started 150 games. This is not fatigue. Attached Images

04-09-2018, 10:27 PM	#17
LloydLungs Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 115	I'm seeing this issue as well. It's not fatigue. And I am playing in legacy mode that gives the GM control over lineups. I think it improves if you don't do the "start every x days" with the backups and just make them "start when starter is tired," but I'm not sure. That requires you to be a lot more hands-on day-to-day, though. And I'm not sure it's a cure-all solution either but it felt like it helped for me. Last edited by LloydLungs; 04-09-2018 at 10:29 PM.

04-09-2018, 06:54 PM	#2
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,181	Please see here, and here, and let me know if this is similar to what you're seeing. I think we've already got three threads going on this (including this one), and one guy (DCG12) apparently posted about it in the beta forum and alerted Markus and Matt to the issue. Hopefully they'll get on it, but it didn't make it into this patch unfortunately.

04-09-2018, 07:03 PM	#3
desertnomad Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 47	I don't think it's a fatigue issue. I think the AI thinks the bench player is better and should be starting. My starting position players shouldn't be limited to 300-350 ABs due to fatigue. The bench player acts more like a platoon player.

04-09-2018, 07:24 PM	#5
drhay53 Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 355	I am still not convinced that my submitted bug is actually a fatigue issue, because the bench player in question is alternating between starting at two positions and the starters have 100% rested status in a DH only league (so they're not pinch-hitting a lot, which seems to be part of the fatigue bug)... however, I am very glad that other people are noticing issues as well, because I can't play until this is sorted out

04-09-2018, 08:01 PM	#11
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,181	Ok, I think we've got two different issues here. Ugh.

04-09-2018, 08:04 PM	#12
drhay53 Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 355	Not trying to pile on the devs or anything, but I strongly believe people who have leagues they really care about should probably stop playing until this is sorted out. Lots of players are going to miss half-seasons due to this, and that's really going to affect alot of stats.

04-09-2018, 08:28 PM	#14
Gorinski Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 78	I just noticed this too with one of my OFs. He should be starting at least 80% of the time but is only starting 1/3 of the games.

04-09-2018, 08:58 PM	#15
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Troy, Mo Posts: 6,252	I think I'm seeing the same thing as the OP. What I just noticed in a brief look at the players the manager was starting in my last game as I was replacing them with starters, every one of them had a better BA than the starter, didn't matter that the replacement had a small sample size of stats.

04-09-2018, 11:37 PM	#20
drhay53 Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 355	Also play with legacy option for lineup and rotation control as GM only. Here's the thread in the bugs forum that I started: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=288042 Now that lot's of people are seeing issues, I'm sure this'll get noticed and fixed.