How Do I Dropkick My Pitchers?

[rassy7]

I've had it with these idiots. This is my first year in OOTP, coming from several years and countless hours in Football Manager. I am supremely frustrated with the lack of control I have over my players in OOTP. Are you telling me I can't force my idiot pitcher to throw strikes? Or at least try to? To the opposing pitching? With nobody on? and two outs?

I just can't watch the guy walk hitters over and over again. Give up a dinger, fine, whatever, anything but a walk. Take a risk, Try.

Why does this game insist each pitcher take every at-bat to a full count? I mean, I look up and see 0-2 and think, "One more strike!" He rattles off fours balls in row to a nobody. After this happens about two or three times, inevitably someone goes deep, my bullpen is shot from the last five games of sending them in after the second or third inning and a team full of Stanton's couldn't bail me out at that point.

I've read all over these and other forums about pitching strategy, the importance of a strong defense behind pitchers, how to handle shifts etc. and I feel like I'm doing all the right things, but there is absolutely zero control over what my pitcher throws. I keep using the Pitch button. I've tried alternating and mixing in contact and pitch around, but they don't make much difference. There is nothing anyone can do to force aggressive pitching. How can there be strategies for scared pitching and walking people, but no button for fire the sucking belt-high, center-cut right down the middle?

Has anyone managed any measure of control over his or her pitchers? If so, how?

Thanks!

[Orcin]

I suggest you quick sim a few games, say one time through the rotation, and see how your pitchers do with the AI running the show.

[rassy7]

Originally Posted by Orcin

I suggest you quick sim a few games, say one time through the rotation, and see how your pitchers do with the AI running the show.

That's a good idea. I'll try that. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that essentially trigger all the same mechanisms, but behind the scenes? In other words, other than the AI having control, it doesn't product an inherent bonus of any kind, right?

[Orcin]

No. The AI will manage the pitchers differently, but there is no bonus to performance.

[rassy7]

Originally Posted by Orcin

I suggest you quick sim a few games, say one time through the rotation, and see how your pitchers do with the AI running the show.

Ok, I simmed a week, once through the rotation. My team won all five games, including three against the top team in entire league, ending with a 15-3 W.

So, what is the AI doing that I'm not? How can I sort this out? Is there a way to see what the AI did? Obviously my strategy is set appropriately for my team's identity and it seems to be built in a way that allows it to compete, but something I'm doing it causing it to self-destruct. I suspect it's something with the pitching. I use pitch-by-pitch, but my selections don't seem to have much effect on the outcome of the actual pitch so I feel totally helpless to change the disaster I know is coming.

Thanks for your help!

[RchW]

Originally Posted by rassy7

Ok, I simmed a week, once through the rotation. My team won all five games, including three against the top team in entire league, ending with a 15-3 W.

So, what is the AI doing that I'm not? How can I sort this out? Is there a way to see what the AI did? Obviously my strategy is set appropriately for my team's identity and it seems to be built in a way that allows it to compete, but something I'm doing it causing it to self-destruct. I suspect it's something with the pitching. I use pitch-by-pitch, but my selections don't seem to have much effect on the outcome of the actual pitch so I feel totally helpless to change the disaster I know is coming.

Thanks for your help!

Never pitch around (increased walks) and never pitch to contact (increased contact means more hits). Do throw to 1st it can buy you a DP. Look at your pitchers carefully. Are they flyball pitchers in a homerun park? A flyball pitcher with poor movement is bad news. Are they groundball pitchers with weak defense up the middle? Get the best 2B/SS/CF you can. A high stuff pitcher with poor control will walk 3-4 per 9. Check your catcher. Give up offence for defense and they will call a better game than you do.

[rassy7]

Originally Posted by RchW

Never pitch around (increased walks) and never pitch to contact (increased contact means more hits).

This is good to know. I pretty much went to that strategy except for power hitters when the alternative was an intentional walk. If they have a bad eye rating, I can sometimes get them to strikeout on pitch-around pitches.

I have pretty strong 2B, SS and CF, but the thing is, the AI used the exact same guys in the same places. I guess the AI just handled defense better somehow? I can't see if they used any shifts.

Strange thing is, I looked at the SP pitch stats from my previous 8 games and compared them to the 5 simmed games and they're very similar.

My SP strikes/total pitches from last 8 games: 60.25%
AI's SP strikes/total pitches from 5 simmed games: 61.6%
Total walks were also comparable
So as frustrating as it is to see all the full counts, it didn't seem to make a difference with the AI at the helm.

I'm still missing something. Nothing is jumping out at me in the comparison. If the AI just used "pitch," then we've done the same thing, except my attempts resulted in a long losing streak and the AI won five straight.

[Will_L]

Originally Posted by rassy7

This is good to know. I pretty much went to that strategy except for power hitters when the alternative was an intentional walk. If they have a bad eye rating, I can sometimes get them to strikeout on pitch-around pitches.

I have pretty strong 2B, SS and CF, but the thing is, the AI used the exact same guys in the same places. I guess the AI just handled defense better somehow? I can't see if they used any shifts.

Strange thing is, I looked at the SP pitch stats from my previous 8 games and compared them to the 5 simmed games and they're very similar.

My SP strikes/total pitches from last 8 games: 60.25%
AI's SP strikes/total pitches from 5 simmed games: 61.6%
Total walks were also comparable
So as frustrating as it is to see all the full counts, it didn't seem to make a difference with the AI at the helm.

I'm still missing something. Nothing is jumping out at me in the comparison. If the AI just used "pitch," then we've done the same thing, except my attempts resulted in a long losing streak and the AI won five straight.

I use all three pitch options depending on the situation though most often the old #1 - Pitch. Pitch Around against low contact-high power hitters since they tend to chase. Pitch to Contact with a slow runner on 1st and a poor/fair contact hitter with poor/fair power at the plate or crappy hitting pitchers since PtC throws more strikes and generates more ground balls (at least in my experience).

[Orcin]

Check the box scores for that week to see how the AI used the bullpen compared to you.

I agree with Rich on pushing #1 9 times out of 10. Don’t walk people or give them easier pitches to hit.

Try playing a game with the AI controlling defense to see how often it shifts.

[Rampkin325]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Try playing a game with the AI controlling defense to see how often it shifts.

I didn't even know you could let the AI control your shifts, I'm going to try this too because I swear I have the same issue as the original poster.


Side note, is there an option to completely turn off AI promotions/demotions for all minor league players?

[The Yurpman]

Originally Posted by Rampkin325

I didn't even know you could let the AI control your shifts, I'm going to try this too because I swear I have the same issue as the original poster.


Side note, is there an option to completely turn off AI promotions/demotions for all minor league players?

Yes. Go to "Manager Options" (it's on the home page when you first load your game). You'll see all the things that you can either control yourself or have the AI control (lineups, free agent signings, staff hiring/firing, etc.) One of the options is minor league promotion/demotion. Set that to your control.

[NoOne]

as long as you don't pitch them tired, law of independent results holds dominion.

if you use pitch to contact, you will get hit more. if you pitch around, you'll walk more. there are contexts when they might be the best option, but you should't use them as the 'norm.'

i don't use pitch around as liberally as discussed above. in fact i rarely use it at all. it's gotta be a huge drop off in talent to warrant the likely walk to pitch to the next guy.

i use pitch to contact when i need a double play and looking to avoid a big or bigger inning etc. both are high risk / high reward type thing... you are gambling when you do it. make sure context shades odds in your favor.

don't worry so much about ~13GS. a lot can change by 32GS. it's just he way the cookie crumbles in any small sample... don't get worried bout it. same reason you don't go bonkers abouta guy with a 1.50 era after 10 starts. look up jordan zimmerman just 2 years ago, lol. there's an example every year on most teams.

are they the best 5 sp that you have and available? that's the only choice you need to be certain about. barring a trade or crazy development out of nowhere, of course. you put your best players out there, and that's all you can really do during a season.

[timmermac]

I apologize in advance for the horrible pun here, but control might actually be your issue. Make sure your starters have control ratings that display either green or blue. This will theoretically minimize the number of walks they give up. Also, if possible, their stuff ratings should ideally be green or blue as well, though yellow may also be acceptable. Stamina should definitely be blue.

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by rassy7

I've had it with these idiots. This is my first year in OOTP, coming from several years and countless hours in Football Manager. I am supremely frustrated with the lack of control I have over my players in OOTP. Are you telling me I can't force my idiot pitcher to throw strikes? Or at least try to? To the opposing pitching? With nobody on? and two outs?

I just can't watch the guy walk hitters over and over again. Give up a dinger, fine, whatever, anything but a walk. Take a risk, Try.

Why does this game insist each pitcher take every at-bat to a full count? I mean, I look up and see 0-2 and think, "One more strike!" He rattles off fours balls in row to a nobody. After this happens about two or three times, inevitably someone goes deep, my bullpen is shot from the last five games of sending them in after the second or third inning and a team full of Stanton's couldn't bail me out at that point.

I've read all over these and other forums about pitching strategy, the importance of a strong defense behind pitchers, how to handle shifts etc. and I feel like I'm doing all the right things, but there is absolutely zero control over what my pitcher throws. I keep using the Pitch button. I've tried alternating and mixing in contact and pitch around, but they don't make much difference. There is nothing anyone can do to force aggressive pitching. How can there be strategies for scared pitching and walking people, but no button for fire the sucking belt-high, center-cut right down the middle?

Has anyone managed any measure of control over his or her pitchers? If so, how?

Thanks!

Never felt the need for anything other than hitting ENTER for pitching with nobody on, visiting the mound to settle someone down. I use HOLD RUNNERS when someone is on almost all the time and very occasionally use PITCHOUT. I also plunk guys instead of giving a free pass.

[Syd Thrift]

Just to note: hold runners does not just mean, I don't think, keeping your first baseman on the bag. He will in essence do this in game anyway (and the game iirc accounts for there being a slightly larger than normal gap on the right side of the infield). What that button means is that your pitcher is distracted by this guy, looking him back to the bag before he pitches (and even, if you want to suspend disbelief, using his "B" move to throw to first). Use it primarily against faster players you think are going to steal. The pitchout is properly reserved for when you know with near certainty that the runner will attempt to steal (note, too, that pitchouts are not a panacea; if memory serves they only drop a steal attempt success change about 20 points, from 70 to 50).

Otherwise, my observations are that a. defense can have a really, really large effect on BABIP, especially in a short run of games where a team might "pick on" an individual fielder and force him to make a lot more plays than you might expect, and b. bad pitching can have a knock-on effect if you keep depleting your bullpen, pushing your starters out for longer than they should, forcing everyone on your team to face more batters and throw more pitches than they "should", and so on.

The other thing to watch for is whether or not you're warming up your relievers. I wind up turning this off because frankly I always forget.