Free Agent signing issues?

OzzieFan · 04-19-2018, 10:05 AM

Am I the only person that thinks things are broken with free agent signings? I am sorry if this has been posted before. However I have seen this happen so many time since the game was released... I want a guy, but his asking price is beyond ridiculous.l offer him maybe 2m a season lower than he want...he wont budge and keeps increasing his demand everytime I submit.

I give up. Then literally 3 days later he signs a contract for less money and less years.

This just doesn't happen IRL. I think the players are either demanding more from the human player... OR they are signing much to fast in free agency before teams can compete.

NoOne · 04-19-2018, 10:28 AM

i think they are going to tweak this stuff based on number of threads and if it's repeatable, observable and not a side effect of other factors/choices.

did the demand drop?

can't offer a contract until demand drops if you want to pay less. they remember your last offer and will be upset if you try to offer less. once you offer an amount, it's locked in... is it quite right? maybe not, but not quite wrong either. flip-flopping on an offern isn't going to help negotiations in real life either. i think they'd still take an extra ~$5m/year if that's still reality of the offer vs competition... but that gets into arbitrary choices and opinion.

in the past, their demand would drop over time if the ai doesn't offer enough. the demand will stay higher than current offers, obviously. if it didn't drop and it went from a ~30-40M demand to 18-20M contract.. that's a problem for sure. 3-5M less? tha'ts probably normal from previous versions

is your team significantly "richer" than anyone else? or huge amount of budget space available? changing max cash allowed to carry over each year can cause inflated demands relative to what they will actually sign for too. if you left this stuff default, i woudn't worry about it.. if you made edits, it could be part of cause if it increase revenue in an extreme way (or cash on hand affecting extension demands, which carryover to FA).

OzzieFan · 04-19-2018, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

is your team significantly "richer" than anyone else? or huge amount of budget space available? changing max cash allowed to carry over each year can cause inflated demands relative to what they will actually sign for too. if you left this stuff default, i woudn't worry about it.. if you made edits, it could be part of cause if it increase revenue in an extreme way (or cash on hand affecting extension demands, which carryover to FA).

Playing with all defaults as St Louis. Money isn't an issue.. I just refuse to pay crazy prices. I think the problem is if its a "demand" thing. Then the demand changing is happening too quickly... My opinion is the players are making decisions for the AI much more quickly than what they would do for the human player.

Oh and also I never lowered my offer. they just accepted a much lower offer than the one I offered and they rejected. IRL they would come back to me to get that offer I previously gave before they accepted less with less years from a competitor.

NoOne · 04-19-2018, 10:55 AM

next time watch if dmeand drops.. if it comes nowhere near what was accepted, then post that specific info in .. i guess bugs? or tech support? not really a bug, but needs to be fixed if that's the case and recreateable in scale etc..

screenshots or detailed notes of demand and then how many days pass, plus the demand on previous day etc.. then how much they signed for.

it should all be about supply and demand... if we can't offer what the ai is offering in an extreme way, that's not right. (again, we often see a higher demand than what ai offers and that is normal -- it's got to be a large variance.)

waiting for a demand to drop has its own risks.. sometimes you can't take the chance. it could also be a 'personality' related thing with coach and/or player wants like desire for winner or maybe even poor team chemistry... a bit up in the air with all the factors to track and make sure aren't the cause for a single context.

edit: not 100% the same but definiteyl will have an effect:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...1&postcount=36

they are actively tweaking FA in '19.

OzzieFan · 04-19-2018, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

waiting for a demand to drop has its own risks.. sometimes you can't take the chance. it could also be a 'personality' related thing with coach and/or player wants like desire for winner or maybe even poor team chemistry... a bit up in the air with all the factors to track and make sure aren't the cause for a single context.

edit: not 100% the same but definiteyl will have an effect:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...1&postcount=36

they are actively tweaking FA in '19.

Yes, in this case I was never waiting for demand to drop. It was more like they refeused to talk to me anymore because i wouldn't give 26m when I was offering 24m. Then less than a week later they sign for less years at around 22m AAV.

Hard to screen shot these issues unless we screen shot every offer we make.

NoOne · 04-19-2018, 11:28 AM

take a note of it.. track it.. it's not going to take 100 screenshots or 100 notes. notes probably faster in this case.. just a txt "Day x - demand", "day x+1 demand" etc.. then what they sign for.

yeah, you need to wait for it to drop.. experience in "that" league will help (they can all be different, potentially) - you learn what various talent will likely sign for, which helps you guess where that demand *should* drop ~near ... which markets are listed as offering a contract? if it's the yankees or dodgers, you can expect a larger offer than if it's kc and tampa etc... more teams = more competition = higher price in the end.

always glance at the payroll report during regular season at some point.. notice the ceiling of a contract.. what posistions typically get it.. you can recognize which contract demands are outlandish fairly well. also which contracts are insane for the age/talent. those occur too.

i try to draw a line at where i am wiling to spend per that talent/age. if it doesn't get there, i don't worry about it, because i am not the organization that just signed an albatross of a contract.

it's possible that after you offer and come to a contract impasse early on, the ai expedites the process once all humans are out of equation. if it seems to come together too fast after you offer and get rejected, this may be why. once the ai doesn't have to wait for a human to get invovled, it's a simple process. once they won't negotiate with you due to low-balling relative to current demand, that is the case.

LegalEagle80 · 04-19-2018, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzzieFan

Playing with all defaults as St Louis. Money isn't an issue.. I just refuse to pay crazy prices. I think the problem is if its a "demand" thing. Then the demand changing is happening too quickly... My opinion is the players are making decisions for the AI much more quickly than what they would do for the human player.

Oh and also I never lowered my offer. they just accepted a much lower offer than the one I offered and they rejected. IRL they would come back to me to get that offer I previously gave before they accepted less with less years from a competitor.

That's the only real issue I have with the competition. I think it's fine, and even realistic, that the player makes a very high initial demand. What I don't really like is that if I offer 20% below that demand and I get rejected, I'll suddenly see he signs with another team at 40% below demand a week later.

That's fine if I want to pretend that there was some non-fiscal reason he wanted to sign with that other team, but I know that's not the way the AI actually operates.

NoOne · 04-19-2018, 08:21 PM

but, you upset him in negotiations and he doesn't like you anymore.

just wait for the demand to drop closer to what you want to offer.. there is a risk invovled. could it work differently, sure.. and that'd likely have it's own drawbacks too.

Hrycaj · 04-19-2018, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

but, you upset him in negotiations and he doesn't like you anymore.

just wait for the demand to drop closer to what you want to offer.. there is a risk invovled. could it work differently, sure.. and that'd likely have it's own drawbacks too.

To be fair, if he upset the player by going 20% below in negotiations then wouldn't he be upset with team "x" a week later when they offer 40% less. Unless the "week later" comment was more of an exaggeration.

Furthermore, lets say he did upset the player in negotiations and then the demand did drop. Shouldn't the player no longer be upset with the OP's team any longer? Isn't this essentially what happened with J.D Martinez and the Red Sox this past off season?

Timofmars · 04-20-2018, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzzieFan

Am I the only person that thinks things are broken with free agent signings? I am sorry if this has been posted before. However I have seen this happen so many time since the game was released... I want a guy, but his asking price is beyond ridiculous.l offer him maybe 2m a season lower than he want...he wont budge and keeps increasing his demand everytime I submit.

I give up. Then literally 3 days later he signs a contract for less money and less years.

This just doesn't happen IRL. I think the players are either demanding more from the human player... OR they are signing much to fast in free agency before teams can compete.

More years doesn't necessarily make the deal more attractive to the player. If you are negotiating for years where they are still in their prime, they may want more, especially if the year in question would be when arbritration runs out and they'd have free agency rights.

But adding more years when the player would be older and at risk of declining would make the player more likely to take a lower average salary.

Also, the specific options matter. He'll like having a player option, but will be less favorable to a team option. There's also bonuses and promised roles.

Beyond that, the online manual says there are additional factors:
the distance of the franchise from the player's hometown
the level of the league (good players might not be interested in playing in a low-level league)
your team's reputation
your manager reputation
your team's recent performance
the likelihood of playing time
the player's morale (especially with contract extensions)
the player's personality

itsmb8 · 04-20-2018, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timofmars

Beyond that, the online manual says there are additional factors:
the distance of the franchise from the player's hometown
the level of the league (good players might not be interested in playing in a low-level league)
your team's reputation
your manager reputation
your team's recent performance
the likelihood of playing time
the player's morale (especially with contract extensions)
the player's personality

Is that modeled by his personality ratings? If not, to the suggestion sub-forum it goes.

04-19-2018, 10:05 AM	#1
OzzieFan Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 248	Free Agent signing issues? Am I the only person that thinks things are broken with free agent signings? I am sorry if this has been posted before. However I have seen this happen so many time since the game was released... I want a guy, but his asking price is beyond ridiculous.l offer him maybe 2m a season lower than he want...he wont budge and keeps increasing his demand everytime I submit. I give up. Then literally 3 days later he signs a contract for less money and less years. This just doesn't happen IRL. I think the players are either demanding more from the human player... OR they are signing much to fast in free agency before teams can compete.

04-19-2018, 10:55 AM	#4
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	next time watch if dmeand drops.. if it comes nowhere near what was accepted, then post that specific info in .. i guess bugs? or tech support? not really a bug, but needs to be fixed if that's the case and recreateable in scale etc.. screenshots or detailed notes of demand and then how many days pass, plus the demand on previous day etc.. then how much they signed for. it should all be about supply and demand... if we can't offer what the ai is offering in an extreme way, that's not right. (again, we often see a higher demand than what ai offers and that is normal -- it's got to be a large variance.) waiting for a demand to drop has its own risks.. sometimes you can't take the chance. it could also be a 'personality' related thing with coach and/or player wants like desire for winner or maybe even poor team chemistry... a bit up in the air with all the factors to track and make sure aren't the cause for a single context. edit: not 100% the same but definiteyl will have an effect: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...1&postcount=36 they are actively tweaking FA in '19. Last edited by NoOne; 04-19-2018 at 10:57 AM.

04-19-2018, 10:28 AM	#2
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	i think they are going to tweak this stuff based on number of threads and if it's repeatable, observable and not a side effect of other factors/choices. did the demand drop? can't offer a contract until demand drops if you want to pay less. they remember your last offer and will be upset if you try to offer less. once you offer an amount, it's locked in... is it quite right? maybe not, but not quite wrong either. flip-flopping on an offern isn't going to help negotiations in real life either. i think they'd still take an extra ~$5m/year if that's still reality of the offer vs competition... but that gets into arbitrary choices and opinion. in the past, their demand would drop over time if the ai doesn't offer enough. the demand will stay higher than current offers, obviously. if it didn't drop and it went from a ~30-40M demand to 18-20M contract.. that's a problem for sure. 3-5M less? tha'ts probably normal from previous versions is your team significantly "richer" than anyone else? or huge amount of budget space available? changing max cash allowed to carry over each year can cause inflated demands relative to what they will actually sign for too. if you left this stuff default, i woudn't worry about it.. if you made edits, it could be part of cause if it increase revenue in an extreme way (or cash on hand affecting extension demands, which carryover to FA).

04-19-2018, 11:28 AM	#6
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	take a note of it.. track it.. it's not going to take 100 screenshots or 100 notes. notes probably faster in this case.. just a txt "Day x - demand", "day x+1 demand" etc.. then what they sign for. yeah, you need to wait for it to drop.. experience in "that" league will help (they can all be different, potentially) - you learn what various talent will likely sign for, which helps you guess where that demand should drop ~near ... which markets are listed as offering a contract? if it's the yankees or dodgers, you can expect a larger offer than if it's kc and tampa etc... more teams = more competition = higher price in the end. always glance at the payroll report during regular season at some point.. notice the ceiling of a contract.. what posistions typically get it.. you can recognize which contract demands are outlandish fairly well. also which contracts are insane for the age/talent. those occur too. i try to draw a line at where i am wiling to spend per that talent/age. if it doesn't get there, i don't worry about it, because i am not the organization that just signed an albatross of a contract. it's possible that after you offer and come to a contract impasse early on, the ai expedites the process once all humans are out of equation. if it seems to come together too fast after you offer and get rejected, this may be why. once the ai doesn't have to wait for a human to get invovled, it's a simple process. once they won't negotiate with you due to low-balling relative to current demand, that is the case.

04-19-2018, 08:21 PM	#8
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	but, you upset him in negotiations and he doesn't like you anymore. just wait for the demand to drop closer to what you want to offer.. there is a risk invovled. could it work differently, sure.. and that'd likely have it's own drawbacks too.