My star RP is mad at me, lol

Qeltar · 04-24-2018, 08:08 PM

I had never even tried a contract extension negotiation before, and had no idea that trying three offers would be enough to tick the guy off so much that he won't even talk to me any more.

I don't really understand this part of the game, to be honest. It seems a bit childish that any professional player would act like this -- much less one who is not even eligible for arbitration yet and has an 8-figure deal being offered to him.

Anyway, does his mood reset eventually or am I going to have to restore an old save and be more cautious about these tender snowflakes' egos in the future. (Isn't this why they have agents, anyway?)

Thanks.

BusterKing · 04-24-2018, 08:11 PM

by restoring an old save you have learned nothing. Low balling offers shows disrespect.

Qeltar · 04-24-2018, 08:14 PM

I didn't lowball him. He was actually fine with a slightly different version of the offer, and I was trying an option year when he suddenly threw a hissy fit.

This guy isn't even eligible for arbitration for two more years. HE is the one who showed disrespect. No real player would EVER do what happened to me just now, unless he was a total jerk (which this guy's personality says he isn't.)

He went from happy negotiation mood to unwilling to talk to me in one go, with no warning. ???

BusterKing · 04-24-2018, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qeltar

I didn't lowball him. He was actually fine with a slightly different version of the offer, and I was trying an option year when he suddenly threw a hissy fit.

This guy isn't even eligible for arbitration for two more years. HE is the one who showed disrespect.

I can see why he would no longer negotiate. You took a chance, it failed. Depending on where you are in the season, he might change his mind. That's the beauty of this game, you can make it easy and "cheat" or play by the rules. It's your game.

Qeltar · 04-24-2018, 08:24 PM

I think your responses to me are harsh without reason. I was not trying to exploit anything here.

I am new to the game. It's mostly a realistic simulation, so I expect realistic behavior.

When I talk to GMs we toss around all sorts of trade ideas. Nobody gets ticked off. I get ridiculous offers in my inbox every day, I don't throw a temper tantrum and refuse to talk to the guy any more.

So I expected similar behavior here. I figured that I would be dealing with the virtual equivalent of his agent, and only when the agent liked a deal would he go to the player. These guys all have agents.

Even if they don't have agents, no kid with no bargaining leverage whatsoever would act like this. Especially a relief pitcher, no matter how good he is (until he rips up his UCL).

BusterKing · 04-24-2018, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qeltar

I think your responses to me are harsh without reason. I was not trying to exploit anything here.

I am new to the game. It's mostly a realistic simulation, so I expect realistic behavior.

When I talk to GMs we toss around all sorts of trade ideas. Nobody gets ticked off. I get ridiculous offers in my inbox every day, I don't throw a temper tantrum and refuse to talk to the guy any more.

So I expected similar behavior here. I figured that I would be dealing with the virtual equivalent of his agent, and only when the agent liked a deal would he go to the player. These guys all have agents.

Even if they don't have agents, no kid with no bargaining leverage whatsoever would act like this. Especially a relief pitcher, no matter how good he is (until he rips up his UCL).

Don't take it personally, I'm harsh on myself. I play the game and make it hard on myself, if I win then I feel it is well deserved.

Qeltar · 04-24-2018, 08:31 PM

I have no problem with natural consequences to dumb mistakes I make as a GM.

But some snot-nosed RP deciding he no longer wants to talk to the guy who mostly controls his destiny for the next 5 years -- over nothing that any sane person would be offended by either -- shouldn't be one of them. It's simply not realistic.

Anyway, does anyone know if his mood will change at some point? If not, that's exponentially worse.

BusterKing · 04-24-2018, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qeltar

Anyway, does anyone know if his mood will change at some point? If not, that's exponentially worse.

Like I said, I have seen it where the player will change is mind but not if it's a the end of a season, very unlikely.

Qeltar · 04-24-2018, 08:38 PM

It's the middle of the season.

Thanks for the reply.

IMNVHO this needs some serious adjustment. It's probably the single least realistic thing I've seen in this entire (otherwise very impressive) simulation. GMs have to walk on eggshells when talking to pre-arb RPs or they will decide to hold their breath until they turn blue? Please.

drhay53 · 04-24-2018, 08:46 PM

Personally, I tend to agree that there are times where this part of the system is unintuitive and frustratingly unresponsive.

mitchkenn · 04-24-2018, 08:48 PM

wait a couple of months and he'll likely talk again - though he won't alter his position most likely. if you have him for 2 more years of arbitration, let him cool his jets til next season or the final year, and he will most likely want to talk again then, telling you how much he loves the city and wants to make a deal. He probably still won't lower his demands.

Qeltar · 04-24-2018, 09:01 PM

Thanks. I was going to reload a save game, but I decided I will ride this out and see what happens.

I mean, it's his loss. If he's not talking to me by the time contracts get renewed, he'll leave millions on the table.

I may trade him anyway. Every team in the league has the hots for him and I have more RPs than I know what to do with (though he's the best).

Out of curiosity, do trade offers get better as you approach July 31? I guess I'll find out.

drhay53 · 04-24-2018, 09:17 PM

Just a note, but a lot of players will not negotiate longer-term contracts prior to hitting free agency at 6 years of MLB service time. Even a single extra year, they'll just shut you down.

Basically, you get the occasional guy who wants to sign a 6 year deal at 4-5 years of service time, but just about everyone else will shut down extra years immediately, with no room to negotiate. I usually don't push into offering big money though, so perhaps there are dollar amounts where you can start to convince people to add years while they're still under team control. But in my experience, pretty similar to recent MLB history, players are going to hold out for free agency rather than taking a long-term deal with the club that has them under control.

Qeltar · 04-24-2018, 09:28 PM

After looking at my old save game I think I may know what happened here. I had apparently already suggested a contract thinking we were just "talking" (like I do hundreds of times with GMs before I make a real trade). When I tried to change the terms he got ticked off. I don't know "what it was I said" but something must have triggered it. He seemed to interpret it as a worse offer than before when I tried to include an option year or something.

BTW as I said before I really was trying to be fair. I was just exploring the options. I didn't even TRY to include years into what would have spanned his free agency, because I figured he wouldn't want to do that. I was trying to lock him for 2 arbitration years and in exchange give him many times the minimum he'd be entitled to before that.

I think the logic just needs to be adjusted. Failing that, please give us a box to override this behavior. If I can force a billionairre to never fire me, I should be able to force some kid to stop giving me the silent treatment.

drhay53 · 04-24-2018, 09:31 PM

A vast majority of steady MLB players will not sign extra years while they're under team control. Most of them are thinking that it will undervalue them. They want to be able to negotiate every year as their value is increasing.

Reggie · 04-24-2018, 09:36 PM

You will get different offers for the same guy at different points in the year.

Reggie · 04-24-2018, 09:37 PM

I've also had guys wish a pox on my house and later be more than happy to talk to me again.

malor · 04-24-2018, 10:33 PM

RPs never really deserve long term deals anyway. 1-2 year and 3 max if they are superstars and you can lock them in cheap. They are easy to replace for cheap between seasons. Start paying attention to the AI between seasons. Most RPs are let go and five or more are signed new. You just need to go after their cast offs and pick the best ones from the list. Promote another 1-2 from your AAA team for minimum wage to save on costs.

byzeil · 04-24-2018, 10:58 PM

What it sounds like is that you had talked and he feels you made an offer that he said was good then you changed the offer to explore other options. So, at least to his eye, you agreed on a deal then changed your offer.

Contract negotiations are different than trade negotiations. With trades you could be talking to multiple teams about multiple players. So you are fine trying to different things until you actually agree on a deal. With contract negotiations if you low ball a guy (not what you did here) or make an offer that he says is good then change the offer you will piss off the player.

Since he isn't even arb eligible yet there is plenty of time for his attitude to change though may/may not be this season.

bigd51 · 04-24-2018, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drhay53

Just a note, but a lot of players will not negotiate longer-term contracts prior to hitting free agency at 6 years of MLB service time. Even a single extra year, they'll just shut you down.

Basically, you get the occasional guy who wants to sign a 6 year deal at 4-5 years of service time, but just about everyone else will shut down extra years immediately, with no room to negotiate. I usually don't push into offering big money though, so perhaps there are dollar amounts where you can start to convince people to add years while they're still under team control. But in my experience, pretty similar to recent MLB history, players are going to hold out for free agency rather than taking a long-term deal with the club that has them under control.

There are... you just need to learn how to negotiate the right amount.

For instance, take Ozzie Albies below. Using the Team Salary page as a guide, his Arbitration estimates were as follows:

2020: $555,000
2021: $3,800,000
2022: $5,800,000
2023: $7,900,000

When I tried to offer him an extension after the 2019 season, he only wanted to negotiate a one year deal. But I wanted to lock him up long term, so I offered him an 8 year deal:

2020: $1,500,000
2021: $4,500,000
2022: $7,500,000
2023: $9,000,000
2024: $12,000,000
2025: $14,000,000
2026: $14,000,000
2027: $14,000,000

He accepted, despite only wanting to sign a one year extension beforehand.

A lot of it comes down to how much more you're willing to offer them in the short-term compared to their Arbitration estimates on the Team Salary page. In this case, I gave him $4m more total than his estimates in his Arbitration years, but considering his current stats and ratings (which would've likely had him demanding at least $20m or more per year after) I've got him under contract for 4 "free agent" years, saving around $26m total.

A players Loyalty and Greed rating can come into play, as well. If he has a high Loyalty rating, he's more likely (but not guaranteed) to negotiate a long term deal early. A player w/ a high Greed rating will likely (but not guaranteed to) demand way more than you think is a fair offer.

It really just comes to trial and error... and also, it doesn't hurt to look at other teams histories and the real life contracts they negotiate w/ their players.

In this case, I feel as though I came away w/ a pretty sweet deal...

04-24-2018, 08:08 PM	#1
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	My star RP is mad at me, lol I had never even tried a contract extension negotiation before, and had no idea that trying three offers would be enough to tick the guy off so much that he won't even talk to me any more. I don't really understand this part of the game, to be honest. It seems a bit childish that any professional player would act like this -- much less one who is not even eligible for arbitration yet and has an 8-figure deal being offered to him. Anyway, does his mood reset eventually or am I going to have to restore an old save and be more cautious about these tender snowflakes' egos in the future. (Isn't this why they have agents, anyway?) Thanks.

04-24-2018, 08:14 PM	#3
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	I didn't lowball him. He was actually fine with a slightly different version of the offer, and I was trying an option year when he suddenly threw a hissy fit. This guy isn't even eligible for arbitration for two more years. HE is the one who showed disrespect. No real player would EVER do what happened to me just now, unless he was a total jerk (which this guy's personality says he isn't.) He went from happy negotiation mood to unwilling to talk to me in one go, with no warning. ??? Last edited by Qeltar; 04-24-2018 at 08:16 PM.

04-24-2018, 08:48 PM	#11
mitchkenn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Oregon, not by design Posts: 2,872	wait a couple of months and he'll likely talk again - though he won't alter his position most likely. if you have him for 2 more years of arbitration, let him cool his jets til next season or the final year, and he will most likely want to talk again then, telling you how much he loves the city and wants to make a deal. He probably still won't lower his demands. __________________ "This is my opening farewell " - Jackson Browne “They make a desolation and call it peace.” ― Agha Shahid Ali "Maybe she just has to sing, for the sake of the song - And who do I think that I am to decide that she's wrong." - Townes Van Zandt "I saw a young man leaning on his wooden crutch - He called out to me, 'Don't ask for so much' And a young woman leaning in her darkened door She cried out to me, 'Why not ask for more?' " - Leonard Cohen "Hello darkness, my old Friend ...." - Paul Simon Before Mays, before DiMaggio, there was Oscar Charleston. "All the lies about Babe Ruth are true." - Waite Hoyt Avatar is the late great Townes Van Zandt. rip.

04-24-2018, 09:28 PM	#14
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	After looking at my old save game I think I may know what happened here. I had apparently already suggested a contract thinking we were just "talking" (like I do hundreds of times with GMs before I make a real trade). When I tried to change the terms he got ticked off. I don't know "what it was I said" but something must have triggered it. He seemed to interpret it as a worse offer than before when I tried to include an option year or something. BTW as I said before I really was trying to be fair. I was just exploring the options. I didn't even TRY to include years into what would have spanned his free agency, because I figured he wouldn't want to do that. I was trying to lock him for 2 arbitration years and in exchange give him many times the minimum he'd be entitled to before that. I think the logic just needs to be adjusted. Failing that, please give us a box to override this behavior. If I can force a billionairre to never fire me, I should be able to force some kid to stop giving me the silent treatment. Last edited by Qeltar; 04-24-2018 at 09:29 PM.

04-24-2018, 08:11 PM	#2
BusterKing Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,421	by restoring an old save you have learned nothing. Low balling offers shows disrespect.

04-24-2018, 08:24 PM	#5
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	I think your responses to me are harsh without reason. I was not trying to exploit anything here. I am new to the game. It's mostly a realistic simulation, so I expect realistic behavior. When I talk to GMs we toss around all sorts of trade ideas. Nobody gets ticked off. I get ridiculous offers in my inbox every day, I don't throw a temper tantrum and refuse to talk to the guy any more. So I expected similar behavior here. I figured that I would be dealing with the virtual equivalent of his agent, and only when the agent liked a deal would he go to the player. These guys all have agents. Even if they don't have agents, no kid with no bargaining leverage whatsoever would act like this. Especially a relief pitcher, no matter how good he is (until he rips up his UCL).

04-24-2018, 08:31 PM	#7
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	I have no problem with natural consequences to dumb mistakes I make as a GM. But some snot-nosed RP deciding he no longer wants to talk to the guy who mostly controls his destiny for the next 5 years -- over nothing that any sane person would be offended by either -- shouldn't be one of them. It's simply not realistic. Anyway, does anyone know if his mood will change at some point? If not, that's exponentially worse.

04-24-2018, 08:38 PM	#9
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	It's the middle of the season. Thanks for the reply. IMNVHO this needs some serious adjustment. It's probably the single least realistic thing I've seen in this entire (otherwise very impressive) simulation. GMs have to walk on eggshells when talking to pre-arb RPs or they will decide to hold their breath until they turn blue? Please.

04-24-2018, 08:46 PM	#10
drhay53 Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 355	Personally, I tend to agree that there are times where this part of the system is unintuitive and frustratingly unresponsive.

04-24-2018, 09:01 PM	#12
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	Thanks. I was going to reload a save game, but I decided I will ride this out and see what happens. I mean, it's his loss. If he's not talking to me by the time contracts get renewed, he'll leave millions on the table. I may trade him anyway. Every team in the league has the hots for him and I have more RPs than I know what to do with (though he's the best). Out of curiosity, do trade offers get better as you approach July 31? I guess I'll find out.

04-24-2018, 09:17 PM	#13
drhay53 Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 355	Just a note, but a lot of players will not negotiate longer-term contracts prior to hitting free agency at 6 years of MLB service time. Even a single extra year, they'll just shut you down. Basically, you get the occasional guy who wants to sign a 6 year deal at 4-5 years of service time, but just about everyone else will shut down extra years immediately, with no room to negotiate. I usually don't push into offering big money though, so perhaps there are dollar amounts where you can start to convince people to add years while they're still under team control. But in my experience, pretty similar to recent MLB history, players are going to hold out for free agency rather than taking a long-term deal with the club that has them under control.

04-24-2018, 09:31 PM	#15
drhay53 Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 355	A vast majority of steady MLB players will not sign extra years while they're under team control. Most of them are thinking that it will undervalue them. They want to be able to negotiate every year as their value is increasing.

04-24-2018, 09:36 PM	#16
Reggie Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 442	You will get different offers for the same guy at different points in the year.

04-24-2018, 09:37 PM	#17
Reggie Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 442	I've also had guys wish a pox on my house and later be more than happy to talk to me again.

04-24-2018, 10:33 PM	#18
malor Major Leagues Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 303	RPs never really deserve long term deals anyway. 1-2 year and 3 max if they are superstars and you can lock them in cheap. They are easy to replace for cheap between seasons. Start paying attention to the AI between seasons. Most RPs are let go and five or more are signed new. You just need to go after their cast offs and pick the best ones from the list. Promote another 1-2 from your AAA team for minimum wage to save on costs.