Something has to be done ...

Royalsusedtorule · 07-15-2018, 03:54 PM

... with the trade engine in regards to playing a realistic MLB sim. What OOTP currently has in no way resembles actual real life transactions around the trade deadline.

I will give an example. The Kansas City Royals earlier traded Kelvin Herrera to Washington for 3 prospects. Almost every "expert" I saw comment on the deal felt the Royals sold Herrera for a very light package, as did I, but they did at least get 3 breathing prospects.

So, starting a Royals rebuild with the current season in OOTP, I am attempting to trade veterans who will become free agents several weeks prior to the deadline. The ONLY offers I can get for Herrera are for veterans who will also be free agents/or are out of options/or match up in salary. No matter what trade settings I use - and I've tried about every combination available - can I find a team to trade even ONE prospect. Not even 20/20 low level players who are not likely to even develop into anything. Washington will not take Herrera for ONE of the 3 prospects it dealt in real life, much less all 3. This is also true for Moustakas (who is having a strong 1st half in the game), Duda, Jay (who was dealt earlier for a prospect by the Royals), Hammels, or any other KC veteran on my roster.

This is so totally unrealistic from actual MLB transaction practices as to be laughable. I even tried the NBA model of offering a draft choice and/or prospect of my own with a veteran like Herrera/Moustakas. Teams will trade back higher salaried current major league level players, but no halfway decent prospects. That does no good when starting a rebuild with a low budget team obviously. Just for the hell of it, I picked out a 20/50 Washington prospect with a scouting report to develop to a possible average MLB player, offered Herrera, a #1 draft pick (!) and a 25/35 prospect also scouted to be a future average MLB player. Washington GM told me to get back to him when I was serious.

I've never been overly impressed with the trade engine in OOTP and feel its only become more salary match dependent with every version. But this edition is the worst I've dealt with yet. Unless you set it on very easy - and that wouldn't even allow a Herrera for prospects deal!

Just needed to vent. Probably just going to pack it in for awhile. This kind of stuff has made it too frustrating for me.

SirMichaelJordan · 07-15-2018, 05:28 PM

Fwiw, you’re comparing two different worlds in two different scenarios. I’m sure the trade engine isn’t perfect by on the flip side, I was able to pull off similar deals you are speaking of multiple times.

Aside from using shop around feature, have you also placed unwanted players on the block?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Royalsusedtorule · 07-15-2018, 05:55 PM

Yes, numerous times. I've also tried to manually do trades by picking the targets as well as the shop around. Not every league I have set up in the past has been as difficult as this one is starting out, but I have noticed this as a trend with leagues I have done - much more so in this version than in the past. I've had every version of OOTP since 6 or 7, and the trade engine had improved for quite a few years, like the game itself. Bit I feel in recent years, it has become too dependent on matching salary. In my experience, it is very difficult to get contenders to take on short term salary for prospects in this version (even if they have the budget space), yet this is commonplace in MLB and, in fact, an important tool for teams.

It's no big deal, it's a game after all. As I said originally, I was just venting after wasting a damn hour with ridiculous results this morning. I've said it before and I say it again, OOTP is THE best sim game anywhere. However, that doesn't mean it is perfect and doesn't have some flaws. I hope the developers are always looking for input and working to make the game better - and I believe Markus and Co. do just that. I'll probably just take a frustration break for awhile, then be back to it. I'm addicted, like pretty much everyone in this forum.

Just for the record, though, what settings do you normally use to get the realistic results you are satisfied with?

The Yurpman · 07-15-2018, 05:58 PM

I have to disagree with you entirely. Especially since the last patch, the trading in this version of OOTP has been very well done.

You can not compare real life trades to OOTP trades. The AI doesn't recognize names. They don't know Kelvin Herrera from Catfish Hunter. Names don't mean anything. Trading is strictly set by whatever settings you have enabled, the ratings of the players, and whether the team is contending or rebuilding, that's it. Trying to replicate real life trades in OOTP will hardly ever work. There are just too many variables that, I imagine, are impossible to program in to a game.

With that being said I have still found the trading to be fine in this version of the game. I play as the Red Sox and I have been able to trade for Moustakas at the trade deadline and in another save was able to trade for Jose Abreu and Nate Jones for three above average prospects and a draft pick. All my settings are on whatever the default is, besides me turning on draft pick trading.

screamincheetah · 07-15-2018, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royalsusedtorule

... with the trade engine in regards to playing a realistic MLB sim. What OOTP currently has in no way resembles actual real life transactions around the trade deadline.

I will give an example. The Kansas City Royals earlier traded Kelvin Herrera to Washington for 3 prospects. Almost every "expert" I saw comment on the deal felt the Royals sold Herrera for a very light package, as did I, but they did at least get 3 breathing prospects.

So, starting a Royals rebuild with the current season in OOTP, I am attempting to trade veterans who will become free agents several weeks prior to the deadline. The ONLY offers I can get for Herrera are for veterans who will also be free agents/or are out of options/or match up in salary. No matter what trade settings I use - and I've tried about every combination available - can I find a team to trade even ONE prospect. Not even 20/20 low level players who are not likely to even develop into anything. Washington will not take Herrera for ONE of the 3 prospects it dealt in real life, much less all 3. This is also true for Moustakas (who is having a strong 1st half in the game), Duda, Jay (who was dealt earlier for a prospect by the Royals), Hammels, or any other KC veteran on my roster.

This is so totally unrealistic from actual MLB transaction practices as to be laughable. I even tried the NBA model of offering a draft choice and/or prospect of my own with a veteran like Herrera/Moustakas. Teams will trade back higher salaried current major league level players, but no halfway decent prospects. That does no good when starting a rebuild with a low budget team obviously. Just for the hell of it, I picked out a 20/50 Washington prospect with a scouting report to develop to a possible average MLB player, offered Herrera, a #1 draft pick (!) and a 25/35 prospect also scouted to be a future average MLB player. Washington GM told me to get back to him when I was serious.

I've never been overly impressed with the trade engine in OOTP and feel its only become more salary match dependent with every version. But this edition is the worst I've dealt with yet. Unless you set it on very easy - and that wouldn't even allow a Herrera for prospects deal!

Just needed to vent. Probably just going to pack it in for awhile. This kind of stuff has made it too frustrating for me.

I had the same exact issue and frustration. Put a post on here and was asked if I was in "Challenge Mode." I realized I was, started a new, normal game and the trade feature is much more realistic. As a matter of fact I also took the Royals and traded Herrera for two upper level prospects; one of which is my starting first baseman already.

Orcin · 07-15-2018, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by screamincheetah

I had the same exact issue and frustration. Put a post on here and was asked if I was in "Challenge Mode." I realized I was, started a new, normal game and the trade feature is much more realistic. As a matter of fact I also took the Royals and traded Herrera for two upper level prospects; one of which is my starting first baseman already.

The difference is that you lowered the trade setting from Hard (Challenge Mode default) to Average (normal game default).

Whoofe · 07-15-2018, 07:14 PM

even in challenge mode sometimes I am able to get what I think is a very favorable trade from time to time. other times I have to work hard to get what I think is a "break even" trade.

sometimes I realize I cannot make the trade due to budget constraints of one team or the other.

it may help if you try to absorb some of the salary of the player you are trying to deal, because then a team that's already near its budget max will be willing to trade a no salary prospect for a moderate salary veteran

waittilnextyear · 07-15-2018, 07:23 PM

Another idea is to retain some salary if you want to get a higher return in prospects. I am running a current day MLB plus 2 expansion teams setup and my AI settings are set to 'hard' and 'favor prospects.'

From my expansion team, I just dealt away Patrick Corbin (a rental with a 4-10 record and 4.55 ERA) + Logan Morrsion (.236 with 10 HR, bench player on my team with all salary comped by me) + bullpen arms Scott Alexander (4.67 ERA) and Nick Goody (4.37 ERA, very homer prone) + so so catching prospect Danny Jansen to St. Louis for Harrison Bader + Max Schrock + Dakota Hudson + Connor W. Jones. Bader has very good potential ratings in my save. The others will likely factor into the MLB team in the next 2 years as well.

Also, keep in mind your AI settings play a role in how teams value players, whether it's heavy on ratings or on stats.

SirMichaelJordan · 07-15-2018, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royalsusedtorule

Yes, numerous times. I've also tried to manually do trades by picking the targets as well as the shop around. Not every league I have set up in the past has been as difficult as this one is starting out, but I have noticed this as a trend with leagues I have done - much more so in this version than in the past. I've had every version of OOTP since 6 or 7, and the trade engine had improved for quite a few years, like the game itself. Bit I feel in recent years, it has become too dependent on matching salary. In my experience, it is very difficult to get contenders to take on short term salary for prospects in this version (even if they have the budget space), yet this is commonplace in MLB and, in fact, an important tool for teams.

It's no big deal, it's a game after all. As I said originally, I was just venting after wasting a damn hour with ridiculous results this morning. I've said it before and I say it again, OOTP is THE best sim game anywhere. However, that doesn't mean it is perfect and doesn't have some flaws. I hope the developers are always looking for input and working to make the game better - and I believe Markus and Co. do just that. I'll probably just take a frustration break for awhile, then be back to it. I'm addicted, like pretty much everyone in this forum.

Just for the record, though, what settings do you normally use to get the realistic results you are satisfied with?

Have you tried offering money or retain some salary? The financials in the game isn’t the greatest so it may be strick to help AI in the long run.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

UltimateAverageGuy · 07-15-2018, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royalsusedtorule

... with the trade engine in regards to playing a realistic MLB sim. What OOTP currently has in no way resembles actual real life transactions around the trade deadline.

I will give an example. The Kansas City Royals earlier traded Kelvin Herrera to Washington for 3 prospects. Almost every "expert" I saw comment on the deal felt the Royals sold Herrera for a very light package, as did I, but they did at least get 3 breathing prospects.

So, starting a Royals rebuild with the current season in OOTP, I am attempting to trade veterans who will become free agents several weeks prior to the deadline. The ONLY offers I can get for Herrera are for veterans who will also be free agents/or are out of options/or match up in salary. No matter what trade settings I use - and I've tried about every combination available - can I find a team to trade even ONE prospect. Not even 20/20 low level players who are not likely to even develop into anything. Washington will not take Herrera for ONE of the 3 prospects it dealt in real life, much less all 3. This is also true for Moustakas (who is having a strong 1st half in the game), Duda, Jay (who was dealt earlier for a prospect by the Royals), Hammels, or any other KC veteran on my roster.

This is so totally unrealistic from actual MLB transaction practices as to be laughable. I even tried the NBA model of offering a draft choice and/or prospect of my own with a veteran like Herrera/Moustakas. Teams will trade back higher salaried current major league level players, but no halfway decent prospects. That does no good when starting a rebuild with a low budget team obviously. Just for the hell of it, I picked out a 20/50 Washington prospect with a scouting report to develop to a possible average MLB player, offered Herrera, a #1 draft pick (!) and a 25/35 prospect also scouted to be a future average MLB player. Washington GM told me to get back to him when I was serious.

I've never been overly impressed with the trade engine in OOTP and feel its only become more salary match dependent with every version. But this edition is the worst I've dealt with yet. Unless you set it on very easy - and that wouldn't even allow a Herrera for prospects deal!

Just needed to vent. Probably just going to pack it in for awhile. This kind of stuff has made it too frustrating for me.

People really whine like this? You're really expecting a computer game to mimic human thought and decisions exactly? Yes, good idea, put the game down, forever.

Dr Naysay · 07-16-2018, 05:38 AM

So I am going to hijack the thread slightly in the hope someone can help. I have trading set to very hard and favour prospects and approaching the all star break the Yankees have put Gary Sanchez on the trade block as his contract is up at the end of the season.

On very hard setting the Yankees have nobody on my team they want, on hard they are prepared to take any one of a range of prospects that aren't rated by either my scout are OSA.

The question is which one is more realistic?

jimmysthebestcop · 07-16-2018, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Naysay

So I am going to hijack the thread slightly in the hope someone can help. I have trading set to very hard and favour prospects and approaching the all star break the Yankees have put Gary Sanchez on the trade block as his contract is up at the end of the season.

On very hard setting the Yankees have nobody on my team they want, on hard they are prepared to take any one of a range of prospects that aren't rated by either my scout are OSA.

The question is which one is more realistic?

IF the Yankees are chasing the playoffs then neither trade is realistic.

I think the last patch needs to be tweaked as certain players should appear on the trading block cause of financials but not if the team is a playoff hunt. Like a team 3 games out trying to ship their top RP out cause he makes 10 million.

Dr Naysay · 07-16-2018, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

IF the Yankees are chasing the playoffs then neither trade is realistic.

I think the last patch needs to be tweaked as certain players should appear on the trading block cause of financials but not if the team is a playoff hunt. Like a team 3 games out trying to ship their top RP out cause he makes 10 million.

Despite being 44-47 they are only 2 games out of wild card so yes I will leave it as it is unrealistic.

ThePretender · 07-16-2018, 08:19 AM

Maybe you just need to expand on what you're looking for.

I just got a quickstart in challenge mode and traded for Herrera (and I got him for a non-prospect). I was able to trade him for Willians Astudillo when I retained some $$.

Or, I was able to use Herrera as a throw in for a trade to acquire someone else that I wanted when I retained his salary.

The problem is you're just looking at prospects. There are far more players that you can trade than just prospects.

The other thing is, Herrera isn't very good in the game. He's a guy I wouldn't want pitching with any sort of lead, which limits his upside. He's got name value, but his production isn't good, and he's expensive, so I'm not sure why anybody would want him, to be perfectly honest.

hluraven · 07-16-2018, 08:37 AM

From this and other threads, it appears to be quite easy for the human user to trade for rentals and veterans earning a lot, and very hard to trade them away to the AI. Presumably changing to "heavily favour veterans" rather than prospects could help? I haven't tried it yet, but it might be an idea.

07-15-2018, 07:23 PM	#8
waittilnextyear All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 1,273	Another idea is to retain some salary if you want to get a higher return in prospects. I am running a current day MLB plus 2 expansion teams setup and my AI settings are set to 'hard' and 'favor prospects.' From my expansion team, I just dealt away Patrick Corbin (a rental with a 4-10 record and 4.55 ERA) + Logan Morrsion (.236 with 10 HR, bench player on my team with all salary comped by me) + bullpen arms Scott Alexander (4.67 ERA) and Nick Goody (4.37 ERA, very homer prone) + so so catching prospect Danny Jansen to St. Louis for Harrison Bader + Max Schrock + Dakota Hudson + Connor W. Jones. Bader has very good potential ratings in my save. The others will likely factor into the MLB team in the next 2 years as well. Also, keep in mind your AI settings play a role in how teams value players, whether it's heavy on ratings or on stats. Last edited by waittilnextyear; 07-15-2018 at 07:25 PM.

07-16-2018, 08:19 AM	#14
ThePretender All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,331	Maybe you just need to expand on what you're looking for. I just got a quickstart in challenge mode and traded for Herrera (and I got him for a non-prospect). I was able to trade him for Willians Astudillo when I retained some $$. Or, I was able to use Herrera as a throw in for a trade to acquire someone else that I wanted when I retained his salary. The problem is you're just looking at prospects. There are far more players that you can trade than just prospects. The other thing is, Herrera isn't very good in the game. He's a guy I wouldn't want pitching with any sort of lead, which limits his upside. He's got name value, but his production isn't good, and he's expensive, so I'm not sure why anybody would want him, to be perfectly honest. Last edited by ThePretender; 07-16-2018 at 08:22 AM.

07-15-2018, 03:54 PM	#1
Royalsusedtorule Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Nebraska Posts: 278	Something has to be done ... ... with the trade engine in regards to playing a realistic MLB sim. What OOTP currently has in no way resembles actual real life transactions around the trade deadline. I will give an example. The Kansas City Royals earlier traded Kelvin Herrera to Washington for 3 prospects. Almost every "expert" I saw comment on the deal felt the Royals sold Herrera for a very light package, as did I, but they did at least get 3 breathing prospects. So, starting a Royals rebuild with the current season in OOTP, I am attempting to trade veterans who will become free agents several weeks prior to the deadline. The ONLY offers I can get for Herrera are for veterans who will also be free agents/or are out of options/or match up in salary. No matter what trade settings I use - and I've tried about every combination available - can I find a team to trade even ONE prospect. Not even 20/20 low level players who are not likely to even develop into anything. Washington will not take Herrera for ONE of the 3 prospects it dealt in real life, much less all 3. This is also true for Moustakas (who is having a strong 1st half in the game), Duda, Jay (who was dealt earlier for a prospect by the Royals), Hammels, or any other KC veteran on my roster. This is so totally unrealistic from actual MLB transaction practices as to be laughable. I even tried the NBA model of offering a draft choice and/or prospect of my own with a veteran like Herrera/Moustakas. Teams will trade back higher salaried current major league level players, but no halfway decent prospects. That does no good when starting a rebuild with a low budget team obviously. Just for the hell of it, I picked out a 20/50 Washington prospect with a scouting report to develop to a possible average MLB player, offered Herrera, a #1 draft pick (!) and a 25/35 prospect also scouted to be a future average MLB player. Washington GM told me to get back to him when I was serious. I've never been overly impressed with the trade engine in OOTP and feel its only become more salary match dependent with every version. But this edition is the worst I've dealt with yet. Unless you set it on very easy - and that wouldn't even allow a Herrera for prospects deal! Just needed to vent. Probably just going to pack it in for awhile. This kind of stuff has made it too frustrating for me.

07-15-2018, 05:28 PM	#2
SirMichaelJordan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,716	Fwiw, you’re comparing two different worlds in two different scenarios. I’m sure the trade engine isn’t perfect by on the flip side, I was able to pull off similar deals you are speaking of multiple times. Aside from using shop around feature, have you also placed unwanted players on the block? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

07-15-2018, 05:55 PM	#3
Royalsusedtorule Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Nebraska Posts: 278	Yes, numerous times. I've also tried to manually do trades by picking the targets as well as the shop around. Not every league I have set up in the past has been as difficult as this one is starting out, but I have noticed this as a trend with leagues I have done - much more so in this version than in the past. I've had every version of OOTP since 6 or 7, and the trade engine had improved for quite a few years, like the game itself. Bit I feel in recent years, it has become too dependent on matching salary. In my experience, it is very difficult to get contenders to take on short term salary for prospects in this version (even if they have the budget space), yet this is commonplace in MLB and, in fact, an important tool for teams. It's no big deal, it's a game after all. As I said originally, I was just venting after wasting a damn hour with ridiculous results this morning. I've said it before and I say it again, OOTP is THE best sim game anywhere. However, that doesn't mean it is perfect and doesn't have some flaws. I hope the developers are always looking for input and working to make the game better - and I believe Markus and Co. do just that. I'll probably just take a frustration break for awhile, then be back to it. I'm addicted, like pretty much everyone in this forum. Just for the record, though, what settings do you normally use to get the realistic results you are satisfied with?

07-15-2018, 05:58 PM	#4
The Yurpman Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 320	I have to disagree with you entirely. Especially since the last patch, the trading in this version of OOTP has been very well done. You can not compare real life trades to OOTP trades. The AI doesn't recognize names. They don't know Kelvin Herrera from Catfish Hunter. Names don't mean anything. Trading is strictly set by whatever settings you have enabled, the ratings of the players, and whether the team is contending or rebuilding, that's it. Trying to replicate real life trades in OOTP will hardly ever work. There are just too many variables that, I imagine, are impossible to program in to a game. With that being said I have still found the trading to be fine in this version of the game. I play as the Red Sox and I have been able to trade for Moustakas at the trade deadline and in another save was able to trade for Jose Abreu and Nate Jones for three above average prospects and a draft pick. All my settings are on whatever the default is, besides me turning on draft pick trading.

07-15-2018, 07:14 PM	#7
Whoofe All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 590	even in challenge mode sometimes I am able to get what I think is a very favorable trade from time to time. other times I have to work hard to get what I think is a "break even" trade. sometimes I realize I cannot make the trade due to budget constraints of one team or the other. it may help if you try to absorb some of the salary of the player you are trying to deal, because then a team that's already near its budget max will be willing to trade a no salary prospect for a moderate salary veteran

07-16-2018, 05:38 AM	#11
Dr Naysay Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 57	So I am going to hijack the thread slightly in the hope someone can help. I have trading set to very hard and favour prospects and approaching the all star break the Yankees have put Gary Sanchez on the trade block as his contract is up at the end of the season. On very hard setting the Yankees have nobody on my team they want, on hard they are prepared to take any one of a range of prospects that aren't rated by either my scout are OSA. The question is which one is more realistic?

07-16-2018, 08:37 AM	#15
hluraven Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: London, England Posts: 355	From this and other threads, it appears to be quite easy for the human user to trade for rentals and veterans earning a lot, and very hard to trade them away to the AI. Presumably changing to "heavily favour veterans" rather than prospects could help? I haven't tried it yet, but it might be an idea.