Lots of same players on every team!!

[stan-theman]

Seems like the past 5-6 weeks no matter what type league i am in same players on every team. 30 teams in league seems like 15 or more will have same players like Johnson,Carlton,Bags,Yaz,Maddux and a few more.Kinda takes some fun out of it for me anyways.I look at box score and WP and LP will be same guy. What do you all think?

[Torgonius]

I think lots of people finished the live missions, but haven't earned enough to buy better players yet.

[Marleigh]

The problem isn't the live missions but the fact there aren't a wide variety of other missions to upgrade or that you have to spend a small fortune to improve upon the live mission cards, so people end up sticking with what they have and very gradually upgrading.

[stl jason]

yeah, it's kinda comical to see the upcoming games and just have a string of Maddox/Johnson/Carlton.... just finished the live missions myself, but only kept a couple of the rewards as the rest didn't fit my theme... sold the rest off and converted them into some quality theme-compliant players...

so it is possible to mix it up and have a little variety... just takes a small bit of effort (and most of that effort was reposting cards to the AH that didn't sell until someone picked them up)

[chazzycat]

Originally Posted by Marleigh

The problem isn't the live missions but the fact there aren't a wide variety of other missions to upgrade or that you have to spend a small fortune to improve upon the live mission cards, so people end up sticking with what they have and very gradually upgrading.

in other words, the live mission rewards are so incredibly cost-effective that nothing else makes sense for a long time - so yes, the live missions are the problem.

[stan-theman]

Are you guys saying you did all the live missions...thats alot of cards.... also i am guessing just because players are SE doesn't mean they are gonna be studs.
I like to try different players and see what they do if they dont pan out hosta la vista catch you later and players i liked when i was younger

[chazzycat]

Originally Posted by stan-theman

Are you guys saying you did all the live missions...thats alot of cards....

Yeah, it's a lot of cards, but they are lives. They are not hard to find for the most part. I completed all live missions within a couple weeks of the game being released, and I know for a fact several people completed them even sooner - like within a day or two.

Originally Posted by stan-theman

also i am guessing just because players are SE doesn't mean they are gonna be studs.

Very true. A lot of them are bad cards...that's why you sell them, to keep collecting more & more. Because the cards at the end of the whole shebang (Maddux, Yogi, Yaz, Ichiro, etc.) are absolutely studs and worth it.

[Torgonius]

The higher end SE guys ARE studs, until you get to the level where pretty much everyone has them. For most people that's silver and gold. The SE cards are mostly useless (with a couple exceptions) in diamond.

As a week progresses in the bronze and lower levels, you can tell who is completing them as they start to rocket up the standings to catch the people who are further along in their completion.

Right now, I completed live on all 3 of my teams. The slog is now generating enough PP to fill the gaps I have identified, or getting lucky and pulling a helpful card from a tournament won pack.

The question you need to answer for yourself is do you pay 40k for a decent upgrade, or wait to pay much more for a permanent upgrade?

[mayday10]

This is certainly a balancing issue that will need to be remembered for next year's version.

Finishing these missions was so gratifying. It is very easy and great rewards. Anyone can do it (nothing wrong with that). Both my no-money teams finished these and are swiftly rising toward Gold leagues without any delay (I think 1 team missed promotion by 1 game 1 time). These are so much easier and cheaper, and bring better rewards than the next tier like the Deadball bronzes, Nolan's no nos, 1st overall, 116 and out, etc...

Maybe make them weaker next time. Harder to obtain. Maybe tier the rewards based on what % of the team you have collected (similar to The Show Affinities) and it would force you to get the diamonds and/or perfects to get the rewards. Maybe have a group of 3 or 4 for each franchise you get 1 randomly in a special 'pack' for completion. Maybe have the option of trading in the team SE cards for the Division SE card and in turn for the League SE or taking diamond packs instead or some form of that. All this is just brainstorming.

[chazzycat]

Originally Posted by Torgonius

The higher end SE guys ARE studs, until you get to the level where pretty much everyone has them. For most people that's silver and gold. The SE cards are mostly useless (with a couple exceptions) in diamond.

That is definitely true. You need a plan to generate enough PP to move past the SE cards if you want to succeed in diamond.

[Marleigh]

Originally Posted by chazzycat

in other words, the live mission rewards are so incredibly cost-effective that nothing else makes sense for a long time - so yes, the live missions are the problem.

No the problem is that every other way of getting players is incredibly ineffective, getting an upgrade from buying packs is unlikely to happen unless you buy hundreds of packs, the historical collections are all terrible value, every single player can be bought for less than the sum of the parts and trying to buy from the auction house either results in people trying to price gouge you, or being unable to find any suitable players. When the model is based around people spending hundreds or thousands of $$ then the trickle of PP you gain from seasons in higher tiers is going to take multiple seasons to buy upgrades, even when supplemented by tournaments.

[mayday10]

Originally Posted by Marleigh

No the problem is that every other way of getting players is incredibly ineffective, getting an upgrade from buying packs is unlikely to happen unless you buy hundreds of packs, the historical collections are all terrible value, every single player can be bought for less than the sum of the parts and trying to buy from the auction house either results in people trying to price gouge you, or being unable to find any suitable players. When the model is based around people spending hundreds or thousands of $$ then the trickle of PP you gain from seasons in higher tiers is going to take multiple seasons to buy upgrades, even when supplemented by tournaments.

This sums it up well.

The best/only path, really is finishing the Live Missions. With how limited pp is, and even if you purchase points, finishing live missions makes such more economical sense than any other path. Upgrades from Live rewards are so expensive, pp trickles in, upgrades are so uncommon in packs, these cards just kind of stick there. If you are engaged, you could maybe upgrade a player every week or so. Maybe this is where they hope people spend $? Maybe they do spend $?

I dont envy the job of those who try to balance all this out.... although it does seem like it would be fun to come up with and implement all these ideas, cards, and such.

[eldur00]

Originally Posted by mayday10

This is certainly a balancing issue that will need to be remembered for next year's version.

Finishing these missions was so gratifying. It is very easy and great rewards. Anyone can do it (nothing wrong with that). Both my no-money teams finished these and are swiftly rising toward Gold leagues without any delay (I think 1 team missed promotion by 1 game 1 time). These are so much easier and cheaper, and bring better rewards than the next tier like the Deadball bronzes, Nolan's no nos, 1st overall, 116 and out, etc...

Maybe make them weaker next time. Harder to obtain. Maybe tier the rewards based on what % of the team you have collected (similar to The Show Affinities) and it would force you to get the diamonds and/or perfects to get the rewards. Maybe have a group of 3 or 4 for each franchise you get 1 randomly in a special 'pack' for completion. Maybe have the option of trading in the team SE cards for the Division SE card and in turn for the League SE or taking diamond packs instead or some form of that. All this is just brainstorming.

Agree 100%. I'd even be okay with a historical pack as a reward as it would generate different lineups across the board.
A special pack where you get one of "X" amount of players would also be good.

[ignats75]

Originally Posted by stl jason

yeah, it's kinda comical to see the upcoming games and just have a string of Maddox/Johnson/Carlton.... just finished the live missions myself, but only kept a couple of the rewards as the rest didn't fit my theme... sold the rest off and converted them into some quality theme-compliant players...

so it is possible to mix it up and have a little variety... just takes a small bit of effort (and most of that effort was reposting cards to the AH that didn't sell until someone picked them up)

That was my discovery too. I only did the missions with the Thunder. The other two, with thematic teams, once I had a solid team that fit the theme, I just run tourneys to collect cards and use that to slowly improve the teams.

[Orcin]

Last year, the forums were full of complaints that ftp players could not compete with money players. This year, we have a method (live missions) by which ANY ftp player can easily get to gold level, and perhaps diamond with a few upgrades. It sounds like the developers listened to the complaints and addressed the issue.

[mlbrandomstats]

Originally Posted by eldur00

Agree 100%. I'd even be okay with a historical pack as a reward as it would generate different lineups across the board.
A special pack where you get one of "X" amount of players would also be good.

Yup. It's super annoying seeing 20 Jeff Bagwell's in each league. I think a good way to do it is have maybe four options for each team, maybe between an infielder, outfielder, starter, and reliever. These cards would have to be similarly rated so there isn't an obvious best choice.

This would fix a few issues:
1. The price of each card would never get incredibly low. A card as strong as say Billy Williams should not average just 6500 on the market. The reason this is a problem is because it becomes so hard to upgrade these guys when every historical high diamond is upwards of like 30K. So once people finish the collections it's a lot of waiting around. This also would increase the value of live cards instead of like it is now where many guys are just above quicksell.
2. Teams would become a lot more unique
3. You can complete collections based on how much you like the team rather than how well their reward fits. You don't necessarily *need* to do the Yankees if you are in need of an elite second baseman for cheap

Also if they wanted they could make it so that for each team, there is a one time mission where you can trade one player in plus 5K points in for another player from the same team. This could really help keep the market stable

[HemBear]

The live missions were a good value and got a lot of folks good teams that can compete. However, they were easy to get and the cost of replacing those good cards is very high. The other issue is that it is still early in the year, there are very limited stud pitchers (partly due to unbelievably high hitting values) and limited cards that are better than the stud pitchers. This means that the very very good cards are extremely rare and expensive. Anyone selling can, in the free market, ask a LOT for them. once all the bigger spenders have their teams mostly set, these cards come down in price.

[stan-theman]

Speaking of stud hurlers who does everyone like..Walter Johnson 98 has been my best so far. Would love to get Guidry 100 but pretty pricey. I remember the 1978 season he was so dominate seemed like he pitched 2-3-4 hitter every time out kinda like Koufax in mid 60's. Liking all the feedbak

[eldur00]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Last year, the forums were full of complaints that ftp players could not compete with money players. This year, we have a method (live missions) by which ANY ftp player can easily get to gold level, and perhaps diamond with a few upgrades. It sounds like the developers listened to the complaints and addressed the issue.

It was a valid attempt, but the cards are too good for how easy they are to get, and became the META right out of the gates. I've mentioned it in another thread, but I believe that if they wanted to have that model, it would have been better served released by attrition over a period of 1-2 months instead of releasing everything at once.

There are a few ways to address it for next year/future releases if they feel like it needs some more addressing, some good suggestions are already here. Attrition would be one. Randomness in rewards would be another. Making the cards good but not as good is another one and allowing people to grow their team a bit on the slower side.

Anything to not have to deal with 23 Bagwells in your league hoping yours is the one at the receiving end of the better RNG to generate the most points for your team.

I used to love Monday mornings the past 2 years because I would log in and check the teams in my league, mostly in my division, and see what I was up against, see if I needed to tinker with my lineup, what kind of matchups, etc. This year, the enjoyment for this part of the game is almost completely gone.

[chazzycat]

yeah...that was the point I was trying to make, but you said it better. They went a bit too far with the live collection rewards. The goal was a good one, and they did succeed in making it easier for FTP players. It just wasn't balanced very well against the other ways to obtain cards...it became overwhelmingly obvious what the correct thing to do was. Hence, cookie cutter rosters.