To extend a franchise cornerstone or let him walk...

The_Offspring187 · 10-10-2018, 12:08 PM

I have been approached by my starting catcher, Fernando "Dizzy" Valdes, about a contract extension. He was a part of our World Series winning team last season (the 2001 season). It is currently halfway through September and he is struggling through a second consecutive "down" season, although he has gotten decently hot of late. He is 29 years old.

The kicker is he is asking for a 10 year extension. $11.2 million per season for a total value of 10 years/$112 million. Not terrible considering his numbers and he isn't the worst on defense although I wish he had a better arm. He is popular locally and well known nationally so I'm afraid resigning him will tank my fan interest and loyalty.

Here are some screenshots of some info on the guy. In a post below this I will be posting my catcher waiting in the wings to take this guy's place. This is what is making this a difficult decision for me.

I'm curious to know what you all would do in this situation.

EDIT: I use 20/80 Ratings scale by the way.

The_Offspring187 · 10-10-2018, 12:10 PM

This is Kevin Smith, who I acquired last July in a trade deadline trade. He has been waiting in the wings and forced his way into the backup spot earlier this season. He has been hot of late.

r0nster · 10-10-2018, 12:14 PM

I would offer 6 year contract of 14 million per annum. 2 year team option of 1.5 mill. This way you keep him for 4 seasons and can dump him after 4 seasons and since you don't have to worry about the 10/5 no trade clause just yet so you can still keep shopping him. I am thinking he would tank at age 32 or 34.

Cactusguy21 · 10-10-2018, 12:17 PM

I'd probably be fine with just letting him go, he doesn't seem like that good an option going forward.

drewandpedey · 10-10-2018, 12:19 PM

at 29, 10 years is a lot.. but he should be extended somehow, but probably not worth the risk of a 10 year contract. I'd be torn too.

Westheim · 10-10-2018, 01:26 PM

Farewell, Dizzy. And that is not that much of a franchise cornerstone. One strong season, lots of "well yeah…".

Clovidequano Dovatha · 10-10-2018, 01:47 PM

Get them experience at other positions, such as first, perhaps, and they might become more valuable, I think, as potential trade pieces. Just a thought of mine here. CD out.

dbqs · 10-10-2018, 02:28 PM

Well known/popular won't give you that much of a hit to fan interest. I'd only consider something like this if he were extremely popular locally. Plus, his popularity will fade quickly if he starts tanking and losing playing time to a better option on your roster.

Either way, 10 years is too long for most players, let alone a 30 year old catcher. I would try to give him a short term deal for more money, and try with a team option if you really want to keep him - but doesn't seem necessary to me.

Hrycaj · 10-10-2018, 02:29 PM

For what it is worth I would consider a couple of things. First, it looks like your backup will do pretty well in comparison ratings wise. Second, what is the makeup of the league? Are there a load of similarly rated catchers in your world? Or is he the benchmark? If he is one of the best it is something to consider. 10 years consider? Not a chance. However, maybe a smaller deal is in order.

NoOne · 10-10-2018, 02:35 PM

the guy waiting in wings looks nearly as good... and not losing much...

go with the younger option and save money, because it's nearly even, anyway. that 11m invested elswhere can add more value for sure. look at the difference between those two palyers above... can you add another player that will provide a greater increase in R-Diff? almost certainly so... even if 11m doesn't cover entire salary.. virtually no increase vs any increase is a win-win context.

29 year old catcher isn't the same as "29" at other positions. he's got likely ~2-3 years, maybe at most 5 with great luck, at best at his current ability. if you do sign him, look to get rid of him withn 1-3 years.

the guy waiting in the wings makes this a no-brainer... it's difficult because you are emotionally attached to the player

that's fine too.. you like him, keep him... don't feel bad if you wina few less games though. just a video game, either way.

BirdWatcher · 10-10-2018, 05:40 PM

I agree with the points made here about the backup being a pretty strong contender to take over- at least for a few years while you search for a better option if he doesn't produce.
I also love his character and find myself wondering what his leadership rating might be as he has the look of an almost captain.
At the very least, if he does produce a bit (and that combination of HR power and good eye makes him look to me like someone who could have strong value even with a lower batting average), with his character traits he could become just as popular with the fans as your current starter.

The_Offspring187 · 10-10-2018, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

I agree with the points made here about the backup being a pretty strong contender to take over- at least for a few years while you search for a better option if he doesn't produce.
I also love his character and find myself wondering what his leadership rating might be as he has the look of an almost captain.
At the very least, if he does produce a bit (and that combination of HR power and good eye makes him look to me like someone who could have strong value even with a lower batting average), with his character traits he could become just as popular with the fans as your current starter.

The character of Kevin Smith definitely has me intrigued. It is hard to let Valdes go being part of last year's World Series winning team, and it'll be even harder if we win again this year. But at the same time I'm curious to see what Smith has to offer.

I wish Valdes was a clubhouse cancer so it'd make this easier haha.

All of you have had some great responses. I really appreciate y'alls input.

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The_Offspring187 · 10-20-2018, 12:54 AM

We ultimately did not win the World Series. In my league I have a best of 3 Wild Card series instead of one wild card game. Atlanta won their wild card series 2 games to 0. They beat me in the Eastern League Divisional Series 3 games to 2 I believe. They eventually won the World Series.

I let Valdes walk. I offered him salary arbitration ($15 million) and he declined. Apparently last year's real life free agent market happened in my game because some guys are still signing 2 weeks into the season. Valdes signed a minor league contract(!!!) with my division rival Columbus Red Birds. I'm not happy because had I known the fool would settle for a minor league contract I would've kept him on that smh.

I'll update periodically with how Valdes and Smith do throughout their careers.

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NoOne · 10-20-2018, 03:30 PM

sign and trade next time... although a comp pick sounds like greater value than what you'd get in return, lol. maybe not this particular vet.

i think 'cornerstone' adjective is more feelings based than numbers based and the ai agrees with me. realtive to a ctacher it may be above average, but still a below average hitter, because you don't field while you hit and it's 100% inconsequential in a causal way. (positions correlate to power or weak hitters, not cause them)

The_Offspring187 · 10-22-2018, 05:27 PM

Cornerstone is definitely an emotional attachment from me. He was drafted by my team in 1993 I believe it said (I simmed from 1881 to the end of the 1999 season so I just took over for the 99-2000 offseason). I was just attached because I like seeing guys stay with one team their whole career and he already had several years in the league all with my team so I didn't wanna break that up lol.

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Vezna31 · 10-23-2018, 12:34 AM

I think you made the right decision in letting him walk. I think a .230 hitter asking for 10 years and that much was a lot. Granted he was entering his peak seasons but I don't think you went wrong going with the younger guy with the same or better ratings and much lower salary.

NoOne · 10-23-2018, 02:14 PM

i sometimes break that rule too, but i try to minimize it as much as possible. the future will thank you for it. i'll keep a batter or SP into old age for irrational reasons too, but i don't depend on them and their production is gravy rather than neccessary.

if you have a strong, young team you might get away with it... as long as his heavy contract doesn't impede upcoming extensions. i know you made the decision already, and, imo, it was the right one, but you can be smart and keep the sentimental players under the right circumstances wihtout zero to no negative ramifications.

ThatSeventiesGuy · 10-23-2018, 03:49 PM

29 is a bit of a tough age to figure. Some guys decline right after age 30, others go strong for four or five years after that. I wouldn't give him more than four years, and even then, only at an amount that won't break the bank. Ten years? Happy trails, pardner.

NoOne · 10-23-2018, 05:49 PM

don't forget a catcher approaching 1000games in mlb. wear-n-tear is a real thing in ootp.

The_Offspring187 · 10-24-2018, 12:26 AM

I ultimately resigned my ace starting pitcher to a 10 year contract extension. Probably nuts but he's a superstar in Chicago, I get a lot of storyline stories about him, and he's won our version of the Cy Young (the Wayne Anderson Award) back to back years including winning the pitching Triple Crown last season. Two years ago he went 22-3, last season 23-4. Off to a 5-0 start this year through the first week of May. He was asking for 10 years and about 329 million. I offered 10 years and 250 million I believe. Opt out after year 6, and I believe the last year might be a team option. He'll spend his whole career as a Chicago Crow, hopefully he stays healthy and has the Hall of Fame career I'm hoping for from him.

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10-10-2018, 12:08 PM	#1
The_Offspring187 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 477	To extend a franchise cornerstone or let him walk... I have been approached by my starting catcher, Fernando "Dizzy" Valdes, about a contract extension. He was a part of our World Series winning team last season (the 2001 season). It is currently halfway through September and he is struggling through a second consecutive "down" season, although he has gotten decently hot of late. He is 29 years old. The kicker is he is asking for a 10 year extension. $11.2 million per season for a total value of 10 years/$112 million. Not terrible considering his numbers and he isn't the worst on defense although I wish he had a better arm. He is popular locally and well known nationally so I'm afraid resigning him will tank my fan interest and loyalty. Here are some screenshots of some info on the guy. In a post below this I will be posting my catcher waiting in the wings to take this guy's place. This is what is making this a difficult decision for me. I'm curious to know what you all would do in this situation. EDIT: I use 20/80 Ratings scale by the way. Attached Images Last edited by The_Offspring187; 10-10-2018 at 12:11 PM.

10-10-2018, 12:10 PM	#2
The_Offspring187 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 477	This is Kevin Smith, who I acquired last July in a trade deadline trade. He has been waiting in the wings and forced his way into the backup spot earlier this season. He has been hot of late. Attached Images Last edited by The_Offspring187; 10-10-2018 at 12:13 PM.

10-10-2018, 12:14 PM	#3
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,037	I would offer 6 year contract of 14 million per annum. 2 year team option of 1.5 mill. This way you keep him for 4 seasons and can dump him after 4 seasons and since you don't have to worry about the 10/5 no trade clause just yet so you can still keep shopping him. I am thinking he would tank at age 32 or 34. Last edited by r0nster; 10-10-2018 at 12:15 PM.

10-10-2018, 01:26 PM	#6
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 12,995	Farewell, Dizzy. And that is not that much of a franchise cornerstone. One strong season, lots of "well yeah…". __________________ Portland Raccoons, 89 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 * 2061 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

10-10-2018, 02:28 PM	#8
dbqs Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Comiskey Posts: 316	Well known/popular won't give you that much of a hit to fan interest. I'd only consider something like this if he were extremely popular locally. Plus, his popularity will fade quickly if he starts tanking and losing playing time to a better option on your roster. Either way, 10 years is too long for most players, let alone a 30 year old catcher. I would try to give him a short term deal for more money, and try with a team option if you really want to keep him - but doesn't seem necessary to me. __________________

10-10-2018, 12:17 PM	#4
Cactusguy21 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 332	I'd probably be fine with just letting him go, he doesn't seem like that good an option going forward.

10-10-2018, 12:19 PM	#5
drewandpedey Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2018 Location: Boston Posts: 159 Blog Entries: 1	at 29, 10 years is a lot.. but he should be extended somehow, but probably not worth the risk of a 10 year contract. I'd be torn too.

10-10-2018, 01:47 PM	#7
Clovidequano Dovatha Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Somewhere in the United States of America on God's Earth Posts: 7,006	Get them experience at other positions, such as first, perhaps, and they might become more valuable, I think, as potential trade pieces. Just a thought of mine here. CD out.

10-10-2018, 02:29 PM	#9
Hrycaj All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,514	For what it is worth I would consider a couple of things. First, it looks like your backup will do pretty well in comparison ratings wise. Second, what is the makeup of the league? Are there a load of similarly rated catchers in your world? Or is he the benchmark? If he is one of the best it is something to consider. 10 years consider? Not a chance. However, maybe a smaller deal is in order. __________________ Click on my signature to read about the great game of baseball in Normington.

10-10-2018, 02:35 PM	#10
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,228	the guy waiting in wings looks nearly as good... and not losing much... go with the younger option and save money, because it's nearly even, anyway. that 11m invested elswhere can add more value for sure. look at the difference between those two palyers above... can you add another player that will provide a greater increase in R-Diff? almost certainly so... even if 11m doesn't cover entire salary.. virtually no increase vs any increase is a win-win context. 29 year old catcher isn't the same as "29" at other positions. he's got likely ~2-3 years, maybe at most 5 with great luck, at best at his current ability. if you do sign him, look to get rid of him withn 1-3 years. the guy waiting in the wings makes this a no-brainer... it's difficult because you are emotionally attached to the player that's fine too.. you like him, keep him... don't feel bad if you wina few less games though. just a video game, either way. Last edited by NoOne; 10-10-2018 at 02:40 PM.

10-10-2018, 05:40 PM	#11
BirdWatcher Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 4,263	I agree with the points made here about the backup being a pretty strong contender to take over- at least for a few years while you search for a better option if he doesn't produce. I also love his character and find myself wondering what his leadership rating might be as he has the look of an almost captain. At the very least, if he does produce a bit (and that combination of HR power and good eye makes him look to me like someone who could have strong value even with a lower batting average), with his character traits he could become just as popular with the fans as your current starter.

10-20-2018, 12:54 AM	#13
The_Offspring187 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 477	We ultimately did not win the World Series. In my league I have a best of 3 Wild Card series instead of one wild card game. Atlanta won their wild card series 2 games to 0. They beat me in the Eastern League Divisional Series 3 games to 2 I believe. They eventually won the World Series. I let Valdes walk. I offered him salary arbitration ($15 million) and he declined. Apparently last year's real life free agent market happened in my game because some guys are still signing 2 weeks into the season. Valdes signed a minor league contract(!!!) with my division rival Columbus Red Birds. I'm not happy because had I known the fool would settle for a minor league contract I would've kept him on that smh. I'll update periodically with how Valdes and Smith do throughout their careers. Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

10-20-2018, 03:30 PM	#14
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,228	sign and trade next time... although a comp pick sounds like greater value than what you'd get in return, lol. maybe not this particular vet. i think 'cornerstone' adjective is more feelings based than numbers based and the ai agrees with me. realtive to a ctacher it may be above average, but still a below average hitter, because you don't field while you hit and it's 100% inconsequential in a causal way. (positions correlate to power or weak hitters, not cause them)

10-22-2018, 05:27 PM	#15
The_Offspring187 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 477	Cornerstone is definitely an emotional attachment from me. He was drafted by my team in 1993 I believe it said (I simmed from 1881 to the end of the 1999 season so I just took over for the 99-2000 offseason). I was just attached because I like seeing guys stay with one team their whole career and he already had several years in the league all with my team so I didn't wanna break that up lol. Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

10-23-2018, 12:34 AM	#16
Vezna31 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Wherever My VPN says Posts: 1,979	I think you made the right decision in letting him walk. I think a .230 hitter asking for 10 years and that much was a lot. Granted he was entering his peak seasons but I don't think you went wrong going with the younger guy with the same or better ratings and much lower salary. __________________ Owner/Operator - Vezna Financial Services - Accounting and taxes.

10-23-2018, 02:14 PM	#17
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,228	i sometimes break that rule too, but i try to minimize it as much as possible. the future will thank you for it. i'll keep a batter or SP into old age for irrational reasons too, but i don't depend on them and their production is gravy rather than neccessary. if you have a strong, young team you might get away with it... as long as his heavy contract doesn't impede upcoming extensions. i know you made the decision already, and, imo, it was the right one, but you can be smart and keep the sentimental players under the right circumstances wihtout zero to no negative ramifications. Last edited by NoOne; 10-23-2018 at 02:15 PM.

10-23-2018, 03:49 PM	#18
ThatSeventiesGuy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Midland, MI Posts: 3,424	29 is a bit of a tough age to figure. Some guys decline right after age 30, others go strong for four or five years after that. I wouldn't give him more than four years, and even then, only at an amount that won't break the bank. Ten years? Happy trails, pardner. __________________ https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...00&postcount=1

10-23-2018, 05:49 PM	#19
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,228	don't forget a catcher approaching 1000games in mlb. wear-n-tear is a real thing in ootp.

10-24-2018, 12:26 AM	#20
The_Offspring187 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 477	I ultimately resigned my ace starting pitcher to a 10 year contract extension. Probably nuts but he's a superstar in Chicago, I get a lot of storyline stories about him, and he's won our version of the Cy Young (the Wayne Anderson Award) back to back years including winning the pitching Triple Crown last season. Two years ago he went 22-3, last season 23-4. Off to a 5-0 start this year through the first week of May. He was asking for 10 years and about 329 million. I offered 10 years and 250 million I believe. Opt out after year 6, and I believe the last year might be a team option. He'll spend his whole career as a Chicago Crow, hopefully he stays healthy and has the Hall of Fame career I'm hoping for from him. Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk