Carlos Correa: Derek Jeter 'didn't deserve any' of his five Gold Gloves

cephasjames · 11-16-2021, 06:31 PM

Carlos Correa: Derek Jeter 'didn't deserve any' of his five Gold Gloves

Quote:

Jeter was awarded the American League Gold Glove in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2009 and 2010, but he wouldn't have won any if it was up to Correa. The free agent -- who the Yankees may sign, by the way -- backed up his critiques of Jeter with fielding analytics.

He mentioned Jeter's minus-165 Defensive Runs Saved. Correa has a DRS of 67 in his seven years in Houston.

The Tragedy of Derek Jeter's Defense

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According to two historical play-by-play-based systems, Baseball Prospectus’s Fielding Runs Above Average and Baseball-Reference’s Total Zone, Jeter has cost his team more in the field than any other player in history, with both methods assessing the damage at 230 to 260 runs.

Seems like Correa might have a good point.

cephasjames · 11-16-2021, 09:11 PM

Actually, Carlos Correa has a point about Derek Jeter

Quote:

...advanced metrics like Ultimate Zone Rating per 150 games give Jeter a rating of -5.9, which ranks him 21st out of 24 qualified shortstops during the same years he won his Gold Gloves. He had a 7.7 defensive WAR in that span, good for 18th. He racked up -92 Defensive Runs Saved in that span, dead last. Oh, and he also recorded 210 Out of Zone plays during that span, which despite Jeter missing only 47 games over those seven years, still ranks him 16th out of 24.

...Alex Rodriguez was a better shortstop.

CONN CHRIS · 11-16-2021, 09:32 PM

He's just burning the bridges into the Bronx so he can sign with Detroit. :-)

cephasjames · 11-16-2021, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

He's just burning the bridges into the Bronx so he can sign with Detroit. :-)

billyray1984 · 11-17-2021, 11:41 AM

People love to rag on Alex Rodriguez (and with good reason), but it's no secret that Derek Jeters was a below average defensive shortstop when Rodriguez was signed. There was no reason to not move him to 3rd base when they signed Rodriguez, except as a favour to Jeters.

David Watts · 11-17-2021, 11:53 AM

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Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

He's just burning the bridges into the Bronx so he can sign with Detroit. :-)

Yup and once he signs he will play all of 25 or 30 games before he goes on the IL and sits out the rest of the season. Then again, he did play a full season this year.....oh but it was a contract year. Of course, Detroit's a lot closer to Toronto than Houston is. Correa and Springer will be able to spend their IL time together, playing video games, getting their hair done and inventing new cheers.

Sign Trevor Story.

rudel.dietrich · 11-17-2021, 11:59 AM

It’s cute that some of you think there will be a baseball season in 2022

Westheim · 11-17-2021, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

It’s cute that some of you think there will be a baseball season in 2022

(sticks fingers in ears and sings as loud as possible) LA-LA-LALA-LALAAA

CAN'T HEAR YOU!

CONN CHRIS · 11-17-2021, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

Yup and once he signs he will play all of 25 or 30 games before he goes on the IL and sits out the rest of the season. Then again, he did play a full season this year.....oh but it was a contract year. Of course, Detroit's a lot closer to Toronto than Houston is. Correa and Springer will be able to spend their IL time together, playing video games, getting their hair done and inventing new cheers.

Sign Trevor Story.

Story will do!

Or Seager. Or Baez. Or Semien. Good year to need a SS.

Déjà Bru · 11-17-2021, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

It’s cute that some of you think there will be a baseball season in 2022

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westheim

(sticks fingers in ears and sings as loud as possible) LA-LA-LALA-LALAAA

CAN'T HEAR YOU!

OOTPB will do!

Westheim · 11-17-2021, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

OOTPB will do!

Eh! I've been stuck on the trade screen and staring and wailing and pulling my fur out for three days...

I *do* imagine that's how real GMs do it too.

cephasjames · 11-18-2021, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

It’s cute that some of you think there will be a baseball season in 2022

We're going to act as if there's going to be a season and hope for the best. I can't imagine the entire 2022 season being a wash, but I can see it being delayed a bunch. Both options suck though.

low · 11-18-2021, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

It’s cute that some of you think there will be a baseball season in 2022

That's fine. I've dealt with enough pain the last four seasons.

David Watts · 11-19-2021, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Story will do!

Or Seager. Or Baez. Or Semien. Good year to need a SS.

Maybe if Correa becomes a Tiger, he will end up like the last Tiger I didn't want anything to do with when they got him. I was not a Victor Martinez fan back in the day and wasn't happy when he joined the team. Loved him by the time he retired.

Lexlogan8 · 11-24-2021, 12:54 PM

IIRC Jeter's defensive stats improved sharply (from worst to average) after ARod arrived, while ARod rated poorly at third. Did he allow balls through that it looked like Jeter could field? Likewise, Joe Morgan and Pete Rose won gold gloves while making among the fewest plays per inning at their positions -- were they truly awful or did playing alongside Concepcion hurt their stats?

Syd Thrift · 11-24-2021, 01:59 PM

IIRC A-Rod accepted the move to 3rd base to make things smoother between the two of them. He also had this weird run where he tried to be like Jeter for a while. Overall, my memory of the two of them was that even before A-Rod moved to NY, he was definitely a better defensive shortstop than Jeter in both Seattle and Texas. Jeter wasn't, like, Chris Taylor levels of bad at the position and there's a lot of value in having an above average bat in a defense-first position (not as much in OOTP but that's another matter), but even when he was younger he was never exactly Omar Vizquel.

dsvitak · 11-24-2021, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

IIRC A-Rod accepted the move to 3rd base to make things smoother between the two of them. He also had this weird run where he tried to be like Jeter for a while. Overall, my memory of the two of them was that even before A-Rod moved to NY, he was definitely a better defensive shortstop than Jeter in both Seattle and Texas. Jeter wasn't, like, Chris Taylor levels of bad at the position and there's a lot of value in having an above average bat in a defense-first position (not as much in OOTP but that's another matter), but even when he was younger he was never exactly Omar Vizquel.

I was in a softball league where our biggest, fattest, slowest player INSISTED on being Mickey Mantle in CF. His range was five feet left and right, and the was three bases, at least, if the ball got past him, which it did with alarming frequency.

I wondered many times if Jeter used his pull with the organization to allow him to play a position he was fundamentally poor at. Jeter's defensive numbers cost the Yankees MANY games.

Jeter won five GG's, and his TOTAL DWar was -1.7 for those years. Good God. Voters are stupid.

mytreds · 12-02-2021, 12:45 PM

It’s all because he threw out Giambi at the plate.

11-16-2021, 09:32 PM	#3
CONN CHRIS Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 29,040	He's just burning the bridges into the Bronx so he can sign with Detroit. :-) __________________ Check Out My Cards!

12-02-2021, 12:45 PM	#18
mytreds All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 1,182	It’s all because he threw out Giambi at the plate. __________________ “Baseball isn’t statistics; it’s Joe DiMaggio rounding second.” “Once, centuries ago, it was the beloved national pastime of the Americas, Wesley. Abandoned by a society that prized fast food and faster games. Lost to impatience.” “ The term ‘WAR’ should be replaced by ‘WAG’. WAR isn’t an actual measurement; it’s just a wild-ass guess” -Bill James RIP National League 1876-2022 Floreat semper vel invita morte. I make custom ballparks.

11-17-2021, 11:41 AM	#5
billyray1984 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 216	People love to rag on Alex Rodriguez (and with good reason), but it's no secret that Derek Jeters was a below average defensive shortstop when Rodriguez was signed. There was no reason to not move him to 3rd base when they signed Rodriguez, except as a favour to Jeters.

11-17-2021, 11:59 AM	#7
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	It’s cute that some of you think there will be a baseball season in 2022

11-24-2021, 12:54 PM	#15
Lexlogan8 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Sep 2021 Posts: 22	IIRC Jeter's defensive stats improved sharply (from worst to average) after ARod arrived, while ARod rated poorly at third. Did he allow balls through that it looked like Jeter could field? Likewise, Joe Morgan and Pete Rose won gold gloves while making among the fewest plays per inning at their positions -- were they truly awful or did playing alongside Concepcion hurt their stats?