Moneyball - finally

mitchkenn · 09-27-2021, 08:22 PM

being cooped up for over a year plus with this Covid-world we find ourselves in, i finally have gotten around to reading a few of the baseball books i'd bought overthe last 4 or 5 years but hadn't gotten around to reading yet. One was about modern baseball stadiums built after Camden Yards. (can't recall the title or author right now and i loaned the book to an older Gentleman who was in the waiting room of a doctors office at the same time i was finishing it and he commented it looked quite interesting. Since i'd finished it, i offered it to him and gave him my address asking only he return it whenever he finished it.) Really interesting read - from a city, design and historical point of view.

Then i finally decided i had to read Moneyball. It's been on my shelf for 3 years or so. i thought i knew the story well enough (no, i haven't seen the movie.) it was a great read. The amazing thing to me was how much opposition to the ideas the owners, press and GMs of baseball had to the ideas. I really expected the book to glorify Billy Bean and it was pretty much nowhere near that.

Anyway, it's the best baseball book i've read in the past couple of years. If you've missed it and want to see the beginnings of saber-metrics unfold, i recommend it highly. It's one i'll likely read again in a few years.

kq76 · 11-29-2021, 03:07 PM

It's been a long time since I read it, but I just remember it being such an easy read. Some books are a slog to get through, but this one was like it read to me. I also seem to remember thinking it would be a book largely about stats and I came away from it more just very much entertained. So if someone hasn't read it yet and is on the fence for either of those two reasons, don't hesitate, pick it up and try it! I'm sure you'll like it like most do.

And FWIW, I saw the movie after reading the book and while I didn't care for the movie at first, maybe because I wanted it to be more like the book, it (the movie) has grown on me.

rink23 · 11-29-2021, 07:55 PM

My biggest issue with the movie Moneyball is it acts like Beane's moves to fill in the blanks on his roster are solely what put his team into the playoffs.
What put the team into the playoffs was having the MLB's best big three -- Mulder, Zito and Hudson -- at the time.
Along with the fact, Miguel Tejada was AL MVP, Eric Chavez was perhaps the best 3B in the AL and Billy Koch racked up 44 saves.
These five were hardly mentioned -- especially Mulder, Zito and Hudson -- in the movie.

billyray1984 · 12-01-2021, 09:17 AM

After having rewatched the movie for the first time in a decade, it's kind of staggering how much the movie gets right and how much it gets wrong (well, not wrong, but how much it takes liberties with real life).

I really like all the interactions with old scouts and how much they focused on stuff that organizations pretty much do not look at nowadays in our wolrd of advanced analytics (i.e. he's got a good jaw, you can hear the ball pop out the bat, good legs, etc.). It's really on the nose since the real Beane was using sabermetrics in the 90's while he was assistant gm, so I doubt he would keep a scouting team soulely comprised of old white dudes in their late 60's, but it's fun.

rudel.dietrich · 12-01-2021, 11:26 AM

The movie did have to compress three seasons down into one. That is why some of it is ‘off’ as far as timeline or moves that were made.

I think they wanted to limit the number of characters shown to not bog down a 90 minute movie.

Also, Paul DePodesta refused to be a part of the movie. So the character of Peter Brand is a amalgamation of several different assistants to Billy Beane.

dsvitak · 12-01-2021, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billyray1984

After having rewatched the movie for the first time in a decade, it's kind of staggering how much the movie gets right and how much it gets wrong (well, not wrong, but how much it takes liberties with real life).

I really like all the interactions with old scouts and how much they focused on stuff that organizations pretty much do not look at nowadays in our wolrd of advanced analytics (i.e. he's got a good jaw, you can hear the ball pop out the bat, good legs, etc.). It's really on the nose since the real Beane was using sabermetrics in the 90's while he was assistant gm, so I doubt he would keep a scouting team soulely comprised of old white dudes in their late 60's, but it's fun.

Back in the mid '70's, as a young airman in the barracks, I got involved in a massive Strat league..we played in the dayroom, and there were games going pretty much non-stop.

I drafted right out of a sabremetrics manual...ten years before I read my first Bill James annual abstract. Hell..the first three I read were stapled, and about 40 pages.

Let's say I was an early adopter of OBP vs. strictly average. I easily won our league. Gotta get on base to score runs.

09-27-2021, 08:22 PM	#1
mitchkenn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Oregon, not by design Posts: 2,872	Moneyball - finally being cooped up for over a year plus with this Covid-world we find ourselves in, i finally have gotten around to reading a few of the baseball books i'd bought overthe last 4 or 5 years but hadn't gotten around to reading yet. One was about modern baseball stadiums built after Camden Yards. (can't recall the title or author right now and i loaned the book to an older Gentleman who was in the waiting room of a doctors office at the same time i was finishing it and he commented it looked quite interesting. Since i'd finished it, i offered it to him and gave him my address asking only he return it whenever he finished it.) Really interesting read - from a city, design and historical point of view. Then i finally decided i had to read Moneyball. It's been on my shelf for 3 years or so. i thought i knew the story well enough (no, i haven't seen the movie.) it was a great read. The amazing thing to me was how much opposition to the ideas the owners, press and GMs of baseball had to the ideas. I really expected the book to glorify Billy Bean and it was pretty much nowhere near that. Anyway, it's the best baseball book i've read in the past couple of years. If you've missed it and want to see the beginnings of saber-metrics unfold, i recommend it highly. It's one i'll likely read again in a few years. __________________ "This is my opening farewell " - Jackson Browne “They make a desolation and call it peace.” ― Agha Shahid Ali "Maybe she just has to sing, for the sake of the song - And who do I think that I am to decide that she's wrong." - Townes Van Zandt "I saw a young man leaning on his wooden crutch - He called out to me, 'Don't ask for so much' And a young woman leaning in her darkened door She cried out to me, 'Why not ask for more?' " - Leonard Cohen "Hello darkness, my old Friend ...." - Paul Simon Before Mays, before DiMaggio, there was Oscar Charleston. "All the lies about Babe Ruth are true." - Waite Hoyt Avatar is the late great Townes Van Zandt. rip.

11-29-2021, 03:07 PM	#2
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,788	It's been a long time since I read it, but I just remember it being such an easy read. Some books are a slog to get through, but this one was like it read to me. I also seem to remember thinking it would be a book largely about stats and I came away from it more just very much entertained. So if someone hasn't read it yet and is on the fence for either of those two reasons, don't hesitate, pick it up and try it! I'm sure you'll like it like most do. And FWIW, I saw the movie after reading the book and while I didn't care for the movie at first, maybe because I wanted it to be more like the book, it (the movie) has grown on me. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

11-29-2021, 07:55 PM	#3
rink23 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 22,467	My biggest issue with the movie Moneyball is it acts like Beane's moves to fill in the blanks on his roster are solely what put his team into the playoffs. What put the team into the playoffs was having the MLB's best big three -- Mulder, Zito and Hudson -- at the time. Along with the fact, Miguel Tejada was AL MVP, Eric Chavez was perhaps the best 3B in the AL and Billy Koch racked up 44 saves. These five were hardly mentioned -- especially Mulder, Zito and Hudson -- in the movie. Last edited by rink23; 12-01-2021 at 06:49 PM.

12-01-2021, 09:17 AM	#4
billyray1984 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 216	After having rewatched the movie for the first time in a decade, it's kind of staggering how much the movie gets right and how much it gets wrong (well, not wrong, but how much it takes liberties with real life). I really like all the interactions with old scouts and how much they focused on stuff that organizations pretty much do not look at nowadays in our wolrd of advanced analytics (i.e. he's got a good jaw, you can hear the ball pop out the bat, good legs, etc.). It's really on the nose since the real Beane was using sabermetrics in the 90's while he was assistant gm, so I doubt he would keep a scouting team soulely comprised of old white dudes in their late 60's, but it's fun.

12-01-2021, 11:26 AM	#5
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	The movie did have to compress three seasons down into one. That is why some of it is ‘off’ as far as timeline or moves that were made. I think they wanted to limit the number of characters shown to not bog down a 90 minute movie. Also, Paul DePodesta refused to be a part of the movie. So the character of Peter Brand is a amalgamation of several different assistants to Billy Beane.