Minor Leagues evolution

[CH1MA3RA]

Does anyone know of a way to set up a historical sim so that the evolution (relocation, name changes, affiliations) of minor league teams still happen as they would IRL, but where those options don't affect the MLB structure randomly?

[thehef]

Unless I'm misunderstanding your question...

Originally Posted by CH1MA3RA

Does anyone know of a way to set up a historical sim so that the evolution (relocation, name changes, affiliations) of minor league teams still happen as they would IRL,

That's the way OOTP's minor league module works.

Originally Posted by CH1MA3RA

but where those options don't affect the MLB structure randomly?

OOTP's historical minor leagues do not affect MLB structure randomly. If you have both enabled, they will both evolve historically unless you deliberately change some settings.

[CH1MA3RA]

hopefully this can provide some clarity.

I started a historical sim in 1983, with the intent to manually expand the NL between 1983 and 1984. During league creation, I checked the import complete history and import NeL and MiLB options, but I unchecked the Automatically Expand option, so that I can control that aspect.

To test whether the minor league teams would be updated according to history, I spot checked on the Charleston Charlies of the 1983 International League. In real life they moved to become the Maine Guides starting in 1984, and would later become the Scranton/WB Red Barons (aka RailRiders) for the 1989 season.

When I simulated forward to the start of the 1984 season (without doing my planned expansion) the Charleston Charlies were still there and they didn't move as expected. Thinking that maybe the Maine Guides weren't impactful enough to be included in the evolution process, I simulated forward again, this time to the start of the 1989 season. However, the Charlies were still present and no relocation to Scranton occured.

My concern is that in order for the minors to mirror real life, I would need the Automatically Expand option enabled, but realistically this isn't an expansion it's a relocation. If I do enable this expansion setting, how would I stop the MLB from expanding, since that is the aspect I want to have control over?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by CH1MA3RA

hopefully this can provide some clarity.

I started a historical sim in 1983, with the intent to manually expand the NL between 1983 and 1984. During league creation, I checked the import complete history and import NeL and MiLB options, but I unchecked the Automatically Expand option, so that I can control that aspect.

To test whether the minor league teams would be updated according to history, I spot checked on the Charleston Charlies of the 1983 International League. In real life they moved to become the Maine Guides starting in 1984, and would later become the Scranton/WB Red Barons (aka RailRiders) for the 1989 season.

When I simulated forward to the start of the 1984 season (without doing my planned expansion) the Charleston Charlies were still there and they didn't move as expected. Thinking that maybe the Maine Guides weren't impactful enough to be included in the evolution process, I simulated forward again, this time to the start of the 1989 season. However, the Charlies were still present and no relocation to Scranton occured.

My concern is that in order for the minors to mirror real life, I would need the Automatically Expand option enabled, but realistically this isn't an expansion it's a relocation. If I do enable this expansion setting, how would I stop the MLB from expanding, since that is the aspect I want to have control over?

The reason you're seeing what you're seeing is that you unchecked the box for expansion. Once you do that, any changes that occur to your league at the big league and the minor league level will have to be done manually,.

[CH1MA3RA]

Ok. Good to know, thank you. But is there a way to check that box so that the minors update but also so that I can disable the MLB expansion that happens in 1993 and 1998?

[thehef]

In addition to what David Watts wrote, my understanding is that the "Automatically Expand" option, as labeled, is somewhat misleading. It really means "expand, relocate, fold, change names... according to history," generally speaking.

Also, after your initial game creation, the historical structure of both your major and minor leagues are controlled by the data that is contained in your teams.csv (for MLB) and milbteams.csv & milbleagues.csv files. The only way to have your majors & minors evolve automatically but not according to history (although in your case it would be a combination of evolving according to history and evolving not according to history) is to have all of your evolution contained in those files. IOW, you would need to edit your teams.csv file to include your MLB expansion teams going forward from 1984. In addition, your milbteams.csv file would need to include the affiliates for your MLB expansion teams...

There's more to it than that, but that's the gist of it.

[CH1MA3RA]

Hmm, well messing with the csv files seems like a lot more work than I'm ideally wanting. I wonder though, after league creation if I unchecked the auto expand options prior to 1993 perhaps that might skip over the IRL aspect. Not sure if I'd be able to turn it back on though after that point or if doing so would create issues

[thehef]

Originally Posted by CH1MA3RA

Ok. Good to know, thank you. But is there a way to check that box so that the minors update but also so that I can disable the MLB expansion that happens in 1993 and 1998?

No, other than what I described above.

When you move from the postseason to the offseason, OOTP then does all of it's updating to move to the next season. This includes importing players and updating all major and minor league structure. So updating minors and MLB expansion happens at the same time.

If you edited the teams.csv file to include your expansion teams in 1984 (and of course you'd need to add them for future years, too), and you also removed the teams that were added in the 1993 and 1998 expansions (including removing them for future years), you'd have the structure you wanted. You wouldn't have any minor league affiliates for those expansion teams, though, unless you also made changes to the milbteams.csv file.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by CH1MA3RA

I wonder though, after league creation if I unchecked the auto expand options prior to 1993 perhaps that might skip over the IRL aspect. Not sure if I'd be able to turn it back on though after that point or if doing so would create issues

If you created your league in 1983, turned off auto expand, added your MLB expansion teams in 1984, and moved forward, then each year you would have the same minor league structure as you had to begin the 1983 season, and the same major league structure you had for the 1984 season. The only differences would be any additional manual changes you made.

I'm not 100% sure, but if you at any time turned on historical expansion, then as soon as you advanced from the postseason to offseason, all of your structure would update to match real life. For example:

Let's say that just after your final World Series game in 1999 - but before you Advance to the Offseason - you checked "Automatically Expand." Once you then advanced to the offseason, OOTP would read those csv files and would:

a) Not find your two 1984 MLB expansion teams, so those would essentially fold from your MLB (pretty sure there'd still be history of them in OOTP, but they'd no longer be active in your league.
b) Find that Rockies, Marlins, Devil Rays, and Diamondbacks existed, so it would add them to your MLB for the 2000 season.
c) See that the MLB divisional alignment has changed, and would change the structure accordingly, to match 2000's structure.
d) Update stadium names. With auto-expand disabled from 1984-1999, no stadium name changes would've been made automatically.
c) Make massive changes to your minor league structure (teams & leagues), which presumably would've remained the same - except for any manual changes you made - since 1984. IOW, it would change the structure from the 1984 version to the upcoming season (2000) version.

[CH1MA3RA]

Thank you. That perfectly addresses my lingering questions and concerns. Much appreciated!

[thehef]

Originally Posted by CH1MA3RA

Thank you. That perfectly addresses my lingering questions and concerns. Much appreciated!

You're welcome! One piece of advice: If you decide to try anything like this, a) test it out first, and b) back up your files