Fictional League with Real Historical League?

matttb324 · 09-29-2022, 10:43 PM

I am fairly new to OOTP and I am wondering if something like the following is possible:
*Create a fictional league with 16 made up teams, logos. Uniforms etc
*Hold a draft with the real MLB players from say 1903
*Can players then age in 1904, 1905 and so on and get better/worse similar to how they did in real life?
*Will players who joined MLB each year join the league pool? So that when I get to Babe Ruths first season (1915? Cant remember) for the Red Sox he will be drafted/signed by one of my fictional teams?
*Finally, if all this were possible, can I expand the league to 20 teams, 26 teams, 30 teams and so on as I get to the 1960s and the real MLB player pool expands?

Honestly I have no idea if this is possible or if thus is how it works but it would be very cool if it is.

luckymann · 09-30-2022, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matttb324

I am fairly new to OOTP and I am wondering if something like the following is possible:
*Create a fictional league with 16 made up teams, logos. Uniforms etc
*Hold a draft with the real MLB players from say 1903
*Can players then age in 1904, 1905 and so on and get better/worse similar to how they did in real life?
*Will players who joined MLB each year join the league pool? So that when I get to Babe Ruths first season (1915? Cant remember) for the Red Sox he will be drafted/signed by one of my fictional teams?
*Finally, if all this were possible, can I expand the league to 20 teams, 26 teams, 30 teams and so on as I get to the 1960s and the real MLB player pool expands?

Honestly I have no idea if this is possible or if thus is how it works but it would be very cool if it is.

You are probably best off just setting it up as a full historical league and changing the team names / graphics etc.

Steps would go something like:

Create 1903 Historical Save
Release all players into a FA draft
Draft
Proceed with real rookies enabled - they will appear as rookies for each new Draft moving forward.

With regard to performance, are you familiar with the concept of recalc v development engine? If not, I'd suggest you get familiar as it is arguably the biggest decision you need to make. In a nutshell, recalc will mirror more closely the players' IRL stat outputs (even more tightly the shorter span you make the recalc - 5 / 3 / 1-year are the options available), while dev is more a "broad-strokes" kinda deal.

Expansion-wise, just have the auto setting OFF if you want to handle it manually and do so at will, remembering to ensure there are enough players to go around - because you are trying to stretch players from 16 clubs to go further.

Plan it out, save along the way to cover the inevitable missteps.

G'luck!

G

matttb324 · 10-01-2022, 05:31 PM

This is great thank you so much. I have been following your directions and they worked like a charm. I released everyone and held a FA draft.
One question I could not find anywhere on the forums. Is it possible to not manage or GM any particular team. It made me pick a team but I really just want to be commish and oversee everything. I did check the commish powers so I do have that but it still made me choose a team to GM/Manage. Thanks!
Matt

matttb324 · 10-01-2022, 05:34 PM

Actually I think I just found it...in the roster fuction menu for league settings?
Set all teams to AI Control, will that let them all be auto-run?

luckymann · 10-01-2022, 09:04 PM

You don't have to choose a team. The game will run without you doing so. Just choose Commish mode if you want to be able to make edits and changes, but you don't even have to do that if you don't want to.

If you have chosen a team to run, you can just resign and proceed from there. Or the option you suggest should work as well.

G

luckymann · 10-01-2022, 09:05 PM

Did you choose recalc or dev engine - or both?

matttb324 · 10-01-2022, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckymann

Did you choose recalc or dev engine - or both?

I chose the engine. I dont want to duplicate history but to seek out an alternate history where park effects, injuries, trades, teammates and the like could lead to different results.

I am also trying to think through from a league office POV what might make sense. For instance, I may place a franchise in Baltimore, one of the nations biggest cities in 1900, rather than say, two in Philadelphia.

matttb324 · 10-01-2022, 10:22 PM

Another question if you dont mind, I was reading a bit of your eclipse league and it got me thinking, is there a way to allow black players into my simulation earlier than 1947? Id be very intrigued to see how paige, gibson and the rest would perform.

luckymann · 10-02-2022, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matttb324

Another question if you dont mind, I was reading a bit of your eclipse league and it got me thinking, is there a way to allow black players into my simulation earlier than 1947? Id be very intrigued to see how paige, gibson and the rest would perform.

Yes but it isn't easy to make it happen automatically. Well, it isn't difficult per se - more tricky.

First and foremost you mush uncheck the Color Bar option in the RULES tab of the League options.

Now, from here I'm not 100% sure as I have always handled it manually (as I do with the Eclipse League). If you switch on historical minors then the various Negro Leagues should start appearing in 1920 and the players will (I think from memory) start appearing as either Draft-eligible rookies or FAs.

The main problem here is that the sheer volume of minor leagues make the save file size huge in a fairly short time. Still, that should get you kind of where you want to be.

G

matttb324 · 10-02-2022, 09:42 AM

Okay interesting. I did uncheck the color barrier but the only problem is I did not create minors for the league.
My thinking was that I have 16 Major teams and I figured the computer would create fictional players to fill the minors in 1903 which I didn't really want. Should I allow for minors? And if I do so, is there a way to avoid fictional players? I am assuming OOTP does not have player profiles for non major leaguers back in 1903.
Thanks for your help!

luckymann · 10-02-2022, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matttb324

Okay interesting. I did uncheck the color barrier but the only problem is I did not create minors for the league.
My thinking was that I have 16 Major teams and I figured the computer would create fictional players to fill the minors in 1903 which I didn't really want. Should I allow for minors? And if I do so, is there a way to avoid fictional players? I am assuming OOTP does not have player profiles for non major leaguers back in 1903.
Thanks for your help!

You don't have to create them, you just need to check the historical minors to be ON (I think it is in the HISTORICAL tab) and the game will handle it from year to year. This is the only way I know to access minor league players automatically - and the game still classes NeLers as "minor leaguers" even though it now treats some of the stats as MLB-equivalent. It does have profiles for all minor league players, although obviously things can get a bit hinky because of the paucity of accurate stats for these guys, especially in those early days.

I think if you just make sure the fictional FAs option is DISABLED then you shouldn't see any fictional players coming in.

BUT...

There can be some roster issues in the Minor Leagues, so I would recommend you allow ghost players in the NiLB levels if you do start having these problems. There's also an option to not allow fictional players to enter the MLB level.

matttb324 · 10-04-2022, 07:05 PM

Had a few other questions...
1. Is it best to erase player's past histories or can I keep them in order for players to add to their statistical records?
2. How to managers work? Like if a team drafts a player/manager of the era, will he become the manager of the team most likely? Seems like that is the case...
3. I'd like to play around with the market sizes and budgets. For instance, the league has a team in Worcester and Louisville, I'd like to change those to small markets and make NY and Chicago big markets. Is there any reason I can't play with those numbers in the sim, will that mess anything up?
4. When I get to 1904 is there anything special I need to do for rookies and new 1904 players to enter the draft or will the game take care of that?
5. Finally, just curious, are the pictures in the game for these early days supposed to more or less match the faces of the actual players or are they just randomly generated?

Thanks so much!
Matt

luckymann · 10-05-2022, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matttb324

Had a few other questions...
1. Is it best to erase player's past histories or can I keep them in order for players to add to their statistical records?
2. How to managers work? Like if a team drafts a player/manager of the era, will he become the manager of the team most likely? Seems like that is the case...
3. I'd like to play around with the market sizes and budgets. For instance, the league has a team in Worcester and Louisville, I'd like to change those to small markets and make NY and Chicago big markets. Is there any reason I can't play with those numbers in the sim, will that mess anything up?
4. When I get to 1904 is there anything special I need to do for rookies and new 1904 players to enter the draft or will the game take care of that?
5. Finally, just curious, are the pictures in the game for these early days supposed to more or less match the faces of the actual players or are they just randomly generated?

Thanks so much!
Matt

OK, in order and as best as I can.

1. You will always be able to see an historical player's real-life stats in the player's profile, if that's what you're worried about here. Other than that, it is purely a personal preference one way or the other. If you import all the history from 1871 you'll have to contend with those "weird" early stats when only one or two pitchers were used and BAs were through the roof and other anomalies caused by the early rules clogging up your leaderboards. Levi Meyerle hitting 460 or whatever, dudes with 600 IP and 40+ wins. Personally, I hardly ever import them and never from before 1901, but as I said it's up to the individual.

2. As far as I'm aware, the game kind of treats player / managers as if they are two completely different individuals. So say Fred Clarke for example - if you start a historical game in a year where he is playing and managing, you'll find separate entries when you search CLARKE - one as a player, one as a manager. And, if he gets fired as a manager or traded as a player, the other version doesn't have any link to that transaction.

3. OK, for financials you need to be real careful. On an overall basis, the FINANCIALS tab is your friend here. This section in particular:

This lets you know the effect changes will have on the league as a whole.

But you really need to plan it all out because things can go real hinky real fast. I maintain financials in all of my leagues to try and achieve what it seems you are looking for. But I only touch the budget, market size and owner spending.

The raw financials seem to have very little sway in those early years, especially if you are using Res Clause rules. Even not, however, the gap between revenues and salaries in the standard model used by the game is such that even the smaller-market / budget clubs can still be aggressive if they want to.

Again, it is trial and error. Only make small incremental changes each year and nudge the league / clubs in the direction you want rather than make wholesale / huge changes is my advice.

Also, historical saves default to the adjusted financial settings being applied each year (I think). So you need to try and work with this - I recommend you leave this ON as it will keep you broadly in line along the way.

4. The main thing to watch here is the number of Rounds because you need to ensure you have sufficient players coming in. Are you going to enable historical minors? That will give you more players in the Draft but also has the corollary of meaning there are more teams needing more players at the lower levels. The Ghost Players option is your friend here if you want more players in the Draft Pool and for the big clubs. Otherwise MiLB teams won't be able to field enough players or will be super uncompetitive. The AI has real problems with roster management.

If you start at the beginning of my Bucs save, you'll see posts about the Rookie Draft each year listing the number of MLB rookies for that year. I don't think I've ever had the Draft set to more that 10 Rounds and usually less than that.

The other thing to keep in mind is the Draft Reveal date. Are you having the Rookie Draft during or after the season? Either way, until you find your rhythm I'd keep the gap between the reveal and the Draft at around 90 days. That will give you enough time to prep up for it. Set it at the very beginning and be ready for the first one.

5. If you enable Facegens, they will match up where available to the correct player, otherwise a fictional one will be generated if there hasn't been one modded.

Hope that helps!

G

matttb324 · 10-05-2022, 07:49 AM

Okay yes, super helpful! I did check the box that says "allow incomplete minor league rosters (ghost players)," I think that's the one you meant. I played around with fan interest and market size, bringining Worcester from like a 6 to a 2 and Chicago from like a 4 to a 7 etc but I won't touch the budgets

I think I'm ready to start. I'm going to post a thread about the league with occasional updates if anyone is interested.

luckymann · 10-05-2022, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matttb324

Okay yes, super helpful! I did check the box that says "allow incomplete minor league rosters (ghost players)," I think that's the one you meant. I played around with fan interest and market size, bringining Worcester from like a 6 to a 2 and Chicago from like a 4 to a 7 etc but I won't touch the budgets

I think I'm ready to start. I'm going to post a thread about the league with occasional updates if anyone is interested.

Please, I'm keen to see what you come up with. Hope it goes well! And yes, Ghost Players is the one.

G

nebben · 10-06-2022, 08:15 AM

I have a question related to financials, luckyman. I've tried playing historical, starting in the 1900s, and mimicking how it was pre-draft. The problem I've had is teams have too so much money one team can sign all the top prospects that enter the game. So, it's not really a challenge for me.

I have imported financials on, but it doesn't make sense to me that I have more than enough money every offseason to meet all the decent specs' demands. Of course, one way around this is to turn the draft on, except that's not what I want to do.

So, I guess my question is if you think there are some tweaks I can try to make it, so it's more competitive for teams to sign specs when they enter the game?

luckymann · 10-06-2022, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebben

I have a question related to financials, luckyman. I've tried playing historical, starting in the 1900s, and mimicking how it was pre-draft. The problem I've had is teams have too so much money one team can sign all the top prospects that enter the game. So, it's not really a challenge for me.

I have imported financials on, but it doesn't make sense to me that I have more than enough money every offseason to meet all the decent specs' demands. Of course, one way around this is to turn the draft on, except that's not what I want to do.

So, I guess my question is if you think there are some tweaks I can try to make it, so it's more competitive for teams to sign specs when they enter the game?

This is a bit of a hot-button topic with the game and there's no simple workaround, I'm afraid. Even with FA on well in advance of the historical, the financial model OOTP uses makes it way too easy to game the system. Then again, with the Res Clause that's kind of how it was IRL, especially in the earliest years - money wasn't an issue for clubs until Ruth came along and salaries started being more representative of players' values. Even then, only the really good guys received commensurate coin.

One of the many fantastic attributes of OOTP is how it offers you the ability to - if so inclined and, admittedly, with some effort involved - overcome its own limitations. So, my somewhat non-committal answer to you is "yes, this would be possible". But I've never done it, opting instead for tightly-controlled house rules, and don't really have any specific suggestion on how to go about it. My general thought would be to turn the financial import OFF and play around with salaries to make the financial system more challenging while still allowing teams some profitability. But this would be a HUGE undertaking that would need to be maintained across the financial model each and every year then realigned with FA once it comes in. Keeping the proper balance would be a real challenge.

I reckon I'm one of the more adventurous OOTPers when it comes to this sort of tinkering, but even I would balk here. Thus the house rules.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, and - if you do attempt this, please keep us updated on here as to what you've tried and how it has gone. I'm sure many would be highly interested in your findings.

G

EDIT Thinking on this some more, you could consider picking a modern year and importing those financials as a basis with the IRL financials of teams. That might at least get you headed in the right direction whilst maintaining the integral balance of the financial system? Just a thought, again I have not tried it myself.

nebben · 10-07-2022, 06:20 AM

That's actually really helpful because it lets me know I'm not missing something within my initial setup. Meaning, the game is working as created, and it's not a simple "toggle this setting" fix.

I like being adventurous with my OOTP setups. Unfortunately, I get confused with numbers. So, I might give tinkering a try because, why not? But I can't promise it will be pretty or quick.

I'll come back after I have something to share.

luckymann · 10-07-2022, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebben

That's actually really helpful because it lets me know I'm not missing something within my initial setup. Meaning, the game is working as created, and it's not a simple "toggle this setting" fix.

I like being adventurous with my OOTP setups. Unfortunately, I get confused with numbers. So, I might give tinkering a try because, why not? But I can't promise it will be pretty or quick.

I'll come back after I have something to share.

Import an early FA year's financials then tinker with the various salaries for player quality is my advice, hitting refresh on the FINANCIALS tab to see what the changes do to your clubs' revenues / payrolls etc.

matttb324 · 10-07-2022, 10:53 AM

Sorry another question about set up. I have these things unchecked:
*Use real historical transactions
*Players miss seasons according to history
*Retire players according to history

My question is given that those are all unchecked, how different are things like trades and injuries likely to be?
My hope is that they are often quite different. Like maybe still has a tendency to get hurt but that my league won't follow real life terribly exactly. Similarly with how often a player is traded or is drafted for the war, stuff like that.
Am I right to think it will follow similar trends (Mantle's knee is still likely to be injured but not necessarily)?

09-29-2022, 10:43 PM	#1
matttb324 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 325	Fictional League with Real Historical League? I am fairly new to OOTP and I am wondering if something like the following is possible: Create a fictional league with 16 made up teams, logos. Uniforms etc Hold a draft with the real MLB players from say 1903 Can players then age in 1904, 1905 and so on and get better/worse similar to how they did in real life? Will players who joined MLB each year join the league pool? So that when I get to Babe Ruths first season (1915? Cant remember) for the Red Sox he will be drafted/signed by one of my fictional teams? *Finally, if all this were possible, can I expand the league to 20 teams, 26 teams, 30 teams and so on as I get to the 1960s and the real MLB player pool expands? Honestly I have no idea if this is possible or if thus is how it works but it would be very cool if it is.

10-01-2022, 05:31 PM	#3
matttb324 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 325	New League This is great thank you so much. I have been following your directions and they worked like a charm. I released everyone and held a FA draft. One question I could not find anywhere on the forums. Is it possible to not manage or GM any particular team. It made me pick a team but I really just want to be commish and oversee everything. I did check the commish powers so I do have that but it still made me choose a team to GM/Manage. Thanks! Matt

10-01-2022, 09:04 PM	#5
luckymann Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 13,025	You don't have to choose a team. The game will run without you doing so. Just choose Commish mode if you want to be able to make edits and changes, but you don't even have to do that if you don't want to. If you have chosen a team to run, you can just resign and proceed from there. Or the option you suggest should work as well. G __________________ HISTORICAL DO-OVERS A'S RED SOX DODGERS CUSTOM SAVES ECLIPSE LEAGUE MOON SHOT LEAGUE EVERYMAN LEAGUE GULF LEAGUE USBA

10-01-2022, 09:05 PM	#6
luckymann Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 13,025	Did you choose recalc or dev engine - or both? __________________ HISTORICAL DO-OVERS A'S RED SOX DODGERS CUSTOM SAVES ECLIPSE LEAGUE MOON SHOT LEAGUE EVERYMAN LEAGUE GULF LEAGUE USBA

10-01-2022, 05:34 PM	#4
matttb324 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 325	Actually I think I just found it...in the roster fuction menu for league settings? Set all teams to AI Control, will that let them all be auto-run?

10-01-2022, 10:22 PM	#8
matttb324 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 325	Another question if you dont mind, I was reading a bit of your eclipse league and it got me thinking, is there a way to allow black players into my simulation earlier than 1947? Id be very intrigued to see how paige, gibson and the rest would perform.

10-02-2022, 09:42 AM	#10
matttb324 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 325	Okay interesting. I did uncheck the color barrier but the only problem is I did not create minors for the league. My thinking was that I have 16 Major teams and I figured the computer would create fictional players to fill the minors in 1903 which I didn't really want. Should I allow for minors? And if I do so, is there a way to avoid fictional players? I am assuming OOTP does not have player profiles for non major leaguers back in 1903. Thanks for your help!

10-04-2022, 07:05 PM	#12
matttb324 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 325	Had a few other questions... 1. Is it best to erase player's past histories or can I keep them in order for players to add to their statistical records? 2. How to managers work? Like if a team drafts a player/manager of the era, will he become the manager of the team most likely? Seems like that is the case... 3. I'd like to play around with the market sizes and budgets. For instance, the league has a team in Worcester and Louisville, I'd like to change those to small markets and make NY and Chicago big markets. Is there any reason I can't play with those numbers in the sim, will that mess anything up? 4. When I get to 1904 is there anything special I need to do for rookies and new 1904 players to enter the draft or will the game take care of that? 5. Finally, just curious, are the pictures in the game for these early days supposed to more or less match the faces of the actual players or are they just randomly generated? Thanks so much! Matt

10-05-2022, 07:49 AM	#14
matttb324 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 325	Okay yes, super helpful! I did check the box that says "allow incomplete minor league rosters (ghost players)," I think that's the one you meant. I played around with fan interest and market size, bringining Worcester from like a 6 to a 2 and Chicago from like a 4 to a 7 etc but I won't touch the budgets I think I'm ready to start. I'm going to post a thread about the league with occasional updates if anyone is interested.

10-06-2022, 08:15 AM	#16
nebben Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 175	I have a question related to financials, luckyman. I've tried playing historical, starting in the 1900s, and mimicking how it was pre-draft. The problem I've had is teams have too so much money one team can sign all the top prospects that enter the game. So, it's not really a challenge for me. I have imported financials on, but it doesn't make sense to me that I have more than enough money every offseason to meet all the decent specs' demands. Of course, one way around this is to turn the draft on, except that's not what I want to do. So, I guess my question is if you think there are some tweaks I can try to make it, so it's more competitive for teams to sign specs when they enter the game?

10-07-2022, 06:20 AM	#18
nebben Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 175	That's actually really helpful because it lets me know I'm not missing something within my initial setup. Meaning, the game is working as created, and it's not a simple "toggle this setting" fix. I like being adventurous with my OOTP setups. Unfortunately, I get confused with numbers. So, I might give tinkering a try because, why not? But I can't promise it will be pretty or quick. I'll come back after I have something to share.

10-07-2022, 10:53 AM	#20
matttb324 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 325	Sorry another question about set up. I have these things unchecked: Use real historical transactions Players miss seasons according to history *Retire players according to history My question is given that those are all unchecked, how different are things like trades and injuries likely to be? My hope is that they are often quite different. Like maybe still has a tendency to get hurt but that my league won't follow real life terribly exactly. Similarly with how often a player is traded or is drafted for the war, stuff like that. Am I right to think it will follow similar trends (Mantle's knee is still likely to be injured but not necessarily)?