When are you going to fix this game?

[Thegman0492]

Dear OOTP,

I have almost every OOTP since 17. I see that since then, you have put a lot of effort towards the graphics. This is a huge mistake. The coaching staff and players should be the main focus. You see, I use to play this game with overall ratings. But those would change just by logging out and logging back in. This is a huge bug that you have never fixed. So now I play with no ratings shown at all. I look at player stats and scouting. However, when one day, a my scout tells me that this guy is a starter and a day later, tells me that he is on the bubble for a bench spot, I get extremely annoyed. Also, you have ratings for coaches but those do not seem to matter either, which is also extremely annoying. To add to that, the Guardians, who never spend money, go out and get Xander Bogaerts! What?!?!

I do not want you to turn into MLB the Show. They have great graphics and animations, but is not realistic at all. They also focus so much on presentation that they have so many bugs that they just ignore.

The most realistic game that I have played is Madden 11 and NCAA Football 11 and on that game, Mark Sanchez was a NFL MVP. It has gotten worse since.

Why can we not get realistic games. We have the AI so what is the problem? Stop focusing on making MLB the Show and make a realistic, statistical game. PLEASE!

Thank you for your time!
Nathan

[eas9898]

I concur. There are plenty of "action" sports games out there already. This game is positioned to be a premier GM/coach simulation game -- all it needs is some focus on AI and team/player management, not prettier graphics.

[Charlie Hough]

I can tell from some of what you're claiming that you probably don't have enough familiarity with the game to understand how it works, how scouting works, and how to use the right settings to get the results you want. You definitely don't know how the game's finances work and how the AI makes transaction decisions accordingly, otherwise you could have already made some adjustments to teams or settings to fix some of the issues you're having.

If you want to have a mature conversion and talk about specific issues you're having, so you can get advice on how to get the experience you want, then feel free to do that. Otherwise, you're wasting your time with rants.

The developers have focused almost entirely on the management aspects of the game for years. Very little has changed with the 3D graphics for several versions, and for most of this game's history, there were no 3D graphics at all. I have no idea where you're getting this notion that there is a focus on graphics at the expense of the rest of the game. That simply isn't true. So maybe try learning more about the sim and do something constructive before trying to blame your experiences on graphics.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

I can tell from some of what you're claiming that you probably don't have enough familiarity with the game to understand how it works, how scouting works, and how to use the right settings to get the results you want. You definitely don't know how the game's finances work and how the AI makes transaction decisions accordingly, otherwise you could have already made some adjustments to teams or settings to fix some of the issues you're having.

If you want to have a mature conversion and talk about specific issues you're having, so you can get advice on how to get the experience you want, then feel free to do that. Otherwise, you're wasting your time with rants.

The developers have focused almost entirely on the management aspects of the game for years. Very little has changed with the 3D graphics for several versions, and for most of this game's history, there were no 3D graphics at all. I have no idea where you're getting this notion that there is a focus on graphics at the expense of the rest of the game. That simply isn't true. So maybe try learning more about the sim and do something constructive before trying to blame your experiences on graphics.

Maybe some players would rather spend more time playing in their league rather than the endless setting up of their league, testing their league, and setting house rules for their league.

I have played this series for over two decades. I do know what I am doing.
And this series still has so many half-baked features and poor AI that has to be covered up

I have given constructive and detailed criticism for almost 5 years now and for the most part, it has been warmly accepted
But the sycophants do come out from time to time and they cannot endure to hear any criticism of the series.

They would rather blame it on the user or explain how if this and this and this is not checked off then of course there will be a problem.

How about an out-of-the-box product that just works?
I have been doing this for a long time. And the hours spent customizing a baseball universe is awesome.

But it has also become a bandaid to cover up a lot of lazy development, poor pre-release testing, and milking the power users of PT for every dime they can get.

So many times have I set up a complex league only to have it fall apart because no one in resting thought to test how leagues look in 5-10-20 seasons.
Or worse yet, they bring it up and are ignored.

Or even just a simple quick start can go wrong due to poor development and a lack of testing.

So feel free to tell me I don't know what I am doing or don't understand how the game works.

I am just one user and I don't spend any money on PT do I doubt they care. But I have been playing since version 5.
I will give OOTP 25 a chance. If I do not see a significant improvement.
Then I feel like it will finally be time for me to move on.

I am not intending this to be one of those "look at me" types of posts or "if I don't get my way I am leaving"

I want this series to succeed and become a better GM simulation.
I would like nothing better.
My criticisms are more out of frustration than anger at this point.

The anger comes from users who excuse lazy development practices by letting them get away with the least improvement possible and then shout down anyone who does not feel like each release is mana from heaven.

[Rain King]

There are fair ways to criticize this game, absolutely.

However, fear of OOTP turning into MLB The Show is hyperbole at best.

Also, going to places like "sycophants" and calling the developers lazy aren't it either.

If you have to result to insulting the fans of the game and/or the developers then you are not likely doing much in the way of actually providing constructive criticism...at least not in that particular post.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Maybe some players would rather spend more time playing in their league rather than the endless setting up of their league, testing their league, and setting house rules for their league.

I have played this series for over two decades. I do know what I am doing.
And this series still has so many half-baked features and poor AI that has to be covered up

I have given constructive and detailed criticism for almost 5 years now and for the most part, it has been warmly accepted
But the sycophants do come out from time to time and they cannot endure to hear any criticism of the series.

They would rather blame it on the user or explain how if this and this and this is not checked off then of course there will be a problem.

How about an out-of-the-box product that just works?
I have been doing this for a long time. And the hours spent customizing a baseball universe is awesome.

But it has also become a bandaid to cover up a lot of lazy development, poor pre-release testing, and milking the power users of PT for every dime they can get.

So many times have I set up a complex league only to have it fall apart because no one in resting thought to test how leagues look in 5-10-20 seasons.
Or worse yet, they bring it up and are ignored.

Or even just a simple quick start can go wrong due to poor development and a lack of testing.

So feel free to tell me I don't know what I am doing or don't understand how the game works.

I am just one user and I don't spend any money on PT do I doubt they care. But I have been playing since version 5.
I will give OOTP 25 a chance. If I do not see a significant improvement.
Then I feel like it will finally be time for me to move on.

I am not intending this to be one of those "look at me" types of posts or "if I don't get my way I am leaving"

I want this series to succeed and become a better GM simulation.
I would like nothing better.
My criticisms are more out of frustration than anger at this point.

The anger comes from users who excuse lazy development practices by letting them get away with the least improvement possible and then shout down anyone who does not feel like each release is mana from heaven.

From the bold it sounds like you think they play "nerf basketball" everyday at the office and just code when they get around to it. I'd call it a backhanded insult to their work ethic except it's pretty much "in their face". If that's what you think I'm not sure why you've waited for v25 to draw the line?

The game has succeeded and become a better GM simulation. It just hasn't gone down the road you'd like it to.

If there are sycophants coming out from time to time that cannot endure to hear any criticism of the series, then there are also the "perma-whiners" that will complain no matter what the developers add or do not add to the game. Nothing will ever be good enough. It goes both ways.

Then there are the users that believe it is, at the end of the day, a computer baseball game that does a pretty good job of what it sets out to do. I've played since v4 and over the years they've added many things I think are a waste of time and that I will never use. They have also added many things that I totally support and have made the game better for me. I concentrate on the good and pretty much don't comment on the added features I'll never use. If someone out there has produced a better baseball game I haven't seen it.

They'll lose some users with the decisions they make, and they'll gain new users from those same decisions. At the end of the day they have to do what's right for them in both regard to their vision for their game and the compensation they get for the work they do. We as consumers will either buy
or we won't.

[Pelican]

"Then there are the users that believe it is, at the end of the day, a computer baseball game that does a pretty good job of what it sets out to do. I've played since [OOTP v21] and over the years they've added many things I think are a waste of time and that I will never use. They have also added many things that I totally support and have made the game better for me. I concentrate on the good and pretty much don't comment on the added features I'll never use. If someone out there has produced a better baseball game I haven't seen it."

I agree with this. That doesn't make me a "psychophant". I too look forward to Version 25.

Maybe if we could move from rants to specifics, we could find solutions. I would suggest that the OP provide some screen shots of "half-baked features and poor AI" or "set up a complex league only to have it fall apart because no one in resting thought to test how leagues look in 5-10-20 seasons" or "a simple quick start can go wrong". I play the game in a similar way (no Perfect Team!), and would not characterize my experience in such terms. Not that I haven't had issues. They have been resolved, in my case. Incidentally, I take OP at his word and do not doubt he has had problems. Let's explore how that happened.

I am not one who reacts poorly to the game being criticized. After all, that is how things get improved. I do, however, react poorly to vague attacks and personal insults and cheap shots. So lets move on to examples and real problems, shall we?

[Thegman0492]

Look, a lot of you are right. The game is the best statistical game out there, but should that mean that I should just be fine with that. I have been playing since 17 and have put in tickets and asked on the forum for help. If I did not believe in OOTP, I would not have started this thread. I know they have the intelligent to figure out how to correct the errors. Instead, they keep adding to Perfect Team or improve the presentations. I just ask that they fix issues before moving on to new things. It is like building a house. Do not add another bathroom to the house when the kitchen still has issues to fix. I would be happy to game test.

Also, I put the problems in this thread that bother me so do not call me vague.

[Charlie Hough]

I appreciate that Thegman0492 tried to be more sensible about voicing frustrations in the follow-up reply. That's a step in the right direction, because it's certainly not going to help to post rants or allege problems or falsehoods with no context or constructive attempts to seek help or get answers.

For decades, people have been asking software developers not to work on anything but their preferred fixes or improvements before anything else. For decades, they have also claimed that their complaints, bug reports, or feature requests are being ignored. But that's not the way the world works, and that's not what's happening inside development teams.

Users aren't the ones running the business, facing the competing requests and priorities, confronted with crucial business decisions to be made, confronted with problems or features that can take years to address---all with their livelihoods depending on it. I've run a business and have advised businesses as a professional for decades, including software companies, and I've been a beta tester for a number of game developers. So I understand the reality from the inside. It's not being a sycophant to acknowledge it. It's called being a pragmatist. When you're a pragmatist, you look for ways to work within that reality and find constructive ways to help improve it.

Toward that end, maybe the conversation can shift toward what Pelican suggested, so something constructive can come out of this for those who are frustrated.

[Hooray Saturday]

I've been playing OOTP since version 3. For 15 years all I wanted was OOTP with some Micro League level graphics. OOTP24 is a better computer baseball game than I ever hoped of having.

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by eas9898

I concur. There are plenty of "action" sports games out there already. This game is positioned to be a premier GM/coach simulation game -- all it needs is some focus on AI and team/player management, not prettier graphics.

concur 1000%

any be the premier top notch reporting and stats, please?

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Maybe some players would rather spend more time playing in their league rather than the endless setting up of their league, testing their league, and setting house rules for their league.

I have played this series for over two decades. I do know what I am doing.
And this series still has so many half-baked features and poor AI that has to be covered up

I have given constructive and detailed criticism for almost 5 years now and for the most part, it has been warmly accepted
But the sycophants do come out from time to time and they cannot endure to hear any criticism of the series.

They would rather blame it on the user or explain how if this and this and this is not checked off then of course there will be a problem.

How about an out-of-the-box product that just works?
I have been doing this for a long time. And the hours spent customizing a baseball universe is awesome.

But it has also become a bandaid to cover up a lot of lazy development, poor pre-release testing, and milking the power users of PT for every dime they can get.

So many times have I set up a complex league only to have it fall apart because no one in resting thought to test how leagues look in 5-10-20 seasons.
Or worse yet, they bring it up and are ignored.

Or even just a simple quick start can go wrong due to poor development and a lack of testing.

So feel free to tell me I don't know what I am doing or don't understand how the game works.

I am just one user and I don't spend any money on PT do I doubt they care. But I have been playing since version 5.
I will give OOTP 25 a chance. If I do not see a significant improvement.
Then I feel like it will finally be time for me to move on.

I am not intending this to be one of those "look at me" types of posts or "if I don't get my way I am leaving"

I want this series to succeed and become a better GM simulation.
I would like nothing better.
My criticisms are more out of frustration than anger at this point.

The anger comes from users who excuse lazy development practices by letting them get away with the least improvement possible and then shout down anyone who does not feel like each release is mana from heaven.

and the people still can't get how the recalc works....3 = 1 past, just played, 1 future.... still no in game pop ups. no quick start examples (see hockey for excellent challenges)

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

and the people still can't get how the recalc works....3 = 1 past, just played, 1 future.... still no in game pop ups. no quick start examples (see hockey for excellent challenges)

Fred, I realize that you just recently came to understand how recalc works but that doesn't mean people in general don't understand it.

[curt]

Originally Posted by Hooray Saturday

I've been playing OOTP since version 3. For 15 years all I wanted was OOTP with some Micro League level graphics. OOTP24 is a better computer baseball game than I ever hoped of having.

I have been playing since OOTP14. I play all my games out PBP. I enjoyed the addition of graphics. I really don't think I would have stuck with OOTP if graphics weren't added.I have yet to purchase any hockey management game because of lack of graphics. For me, I have no interest in reading results. Reminds me of work.

[Chimaera]

Originally Posted by Thegman0492

Dear OOTP,
You see, I use to play this game with overall ratings. But those would change just by logging out and logging back in.

This is an actual issue, and it needs to get fixed because overall ratings appear to be what determines player contract demands. If you're in an online league and one GM is seeing one OVR and another gm is seeing a different OVR for a player in FA, they're getting different contract demands from the players.


Tying contract demands to OVR is also a really bad idea in the first place because OVR is a very bad metric of overall player value to begin with.

[Thegman0492]

Originally Posted by curt

I have been playing since OOTP14. I play all my games out PBP. I enjoyed the addition of graphics. I really don't think I would have stuck with OOTP if graphics weren't added.I have yet to purchase any hockey management game because of lack of graphics. For me, I have no interest in reading results. Reminds me of work.

Well, I know that you would love MLB the Show. Graphics are amazing.

[Thegman0492]

I am glad that a lot of people love this game. I like it too. However, I do not like signing a player for big money because my scout said that he was an everyday starter, in January. Then February comes along and now my same scout is telling me that he is on the bubble for a bench role. WHAT?!?! He has not even played a game yet. Scouting, ratings, the importance of a coaching staff. None of these have been improved. Like I said, I would be happy to game test!

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Thegman0492

I am glad that a lot of people love this game. I like it too. However, I do not like signing a player for big money because my scout said that he was an everyday starter, in January. Then February comes along and now my same scout is telling me that he is on the bubble for a bench role. WHAT?!?! He has not even played a game yet. Scouting, ratings, the importance of a coaching staff. None of these have been improved. Like I said, I would be happy to game test!

That's part of the get a closer look routine. I think ratings shouldn't change until a couple weeks into spring training. I also don't like getting ratings changes on players on the injured list. But I expect there's a possibility ratings will change after I trade for a player.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Brad K

That's part of the get a closer look routine. I think ratings shouldn't change until a couple weeks into spring training. I also don't like getting ratings changes on players on the injured list. But I expect there's a possibility ratings will change after I trade for a player.

Truthfully, Ratings probably should change only a couple (handful) of times a year. I think it needs to be based on playing time and not tie sensitive. After all, every league is different and plays a different schedule and at different times of the year. I would prefer a system where players might only to be able to be scouted every 150 (roughly...some scouts might be better or worse) plate appearances & maybe roughly every 50 innings (again give or take based on scouts and money invested).

[PSUColonel]

The problem with a lot of these ideas every year is that by the time we start talking about them it's already way too late and forgotten by the next development cycle...so I mean that's why I try to brainstorm all year long, but others seem to see it as complaining...but really I am just trying at times to keep things in the forefront.

If the developers are very serious about hearing a lot of different ideas in time for development cycles, they should hold a forum just for something like this. I am not saying they don't take in ideas over the course of time because they do....but threads that are creative in nature often falsely get peoples' hopes up when in reality they don't have a great chance of being in the current development cycle.


Here is an example of one that I thought was so well thought out that I tried to keep bringing it to the developers' attention year after year. I finally quit after realizing none of this was ever going to be implemented. Things such as graphics and PT killed any great ideas such as this.