Bullpen question

[Scottiedog43]

I know this has been spoken about at ad nauseam.
However, I’m just looking for a little help.

I have an expansion team with an admittedly weak bullpen….pitching staff really.
What’s (in your opinion) a good way to set up a bullpen to get every drop of talent out of it.

IE…Set up men vs Stoppers…..Stoppers vs Closers…..Middle relief vs Specialists.
And so on. I will also admit I’m considering 6 starters just to find some decent starters and maybe save my bullpen some wear and tear.

I appreciate any help……thanks in advance.

[Scottiedog43]

Bump

[Brad K]

Why do you think 6 SPs will help the bullpen?

[Scottiedog43]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Why do you think 6 SPs will help the bullpen?

Not sure how much it’ll help.
My main hope is it’ll help me ID another starter. I’m mostly loaded with decent relievers.
I’ll probably eventually goto 5 man rotation.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Scottiedog43

Not sure how much it’ll help.
My main hope is it’ll help me ID another starter. I’m mostly loaded with decent relievers.
I’ll probably eventually goto 5 man rotation.

In your first post you said you had a weak bullpen. Now it's OK and the SPs are the problem. How is anyone to make suggestions when the problem is changing?

[kq76]

Can you make the bullpen substitutions yourself or is it sim only? If it's sim only, have you tried the all middle reliever strategy? While it may sound too simple to be effective, I think there might be something to it, like maybe the game is actually decently smart with whom to bring in when.

Just for the role-playing aspect of it, I do kind of like to save a pitcher for closer situations, but I don't consider him one of my best relievers. My best relievers are guys who can get out of jams (situations with men on 2nd or 3rd) without giving up too many runs. If it's a situation with 2 outs, any kind of out will do, but if it's a 1 out or less and men are on situation, then I might want a pitcher who will likely induce a groundball. If the bases are loaded, or even if a man is simply on 1st, I don't want someone who might give up a walk and advance everyone. If someone is on 3rd with less than 2 outs, you don't want a flyball pitcher. I definitely don't want to bring in a reliever with not good Movement into these situations.

Meanwhile, you have a lot more leeway with a pitcher who's starting an inning, like a Closer. It's not such a big deal if they're a flyball pitcher (theoretically, it may actually be better to start an inning with a flyball pitcher due to their lower pBABIP). If they give up a walk, they're not advancing anyone (a runner on 1st is that big of a threat). If they start off the inning giving up a home run, it's only 1 run (it's a lot better than if men were on), and if they give up a double they're not driving anyone in.

I really like for my pitchers to be good at, at least, 2 of the 3 primary ratings (Stuff, Movement, Control), but if you had a guy whose Movement and Control weren't great, I think you'd best be served by only having them start innings. For your Firemen, guys you bring in to put out fires, like with men on 2nd and 3rd, I really think you want them to have great Movement, and probably even Control, and maybe even for them to be a groundaller (EDIT: assuming, of course, you have a good infield defense) or strikeout pitcher.

I think too often we think, "oh, our best reliever should be our closer and our next best should be our setup and so on", but with playing out games and making your own substitutions you learn real quick that you often need your best guys sooner than you'd like and that it's kind of silly to save them for situations that might not happen.

You mentioned Stoppers and yeah, if we define them as Firemen who also stay in over multiple innings to finish the game, then I definitely like them over Closers. Closers don't need to be that great, but Stoppers do. If you define a Stopper as someone who isn't necessarily a Fireman, but still finishes the game over multiple innings, that's still better than a Closer, but they still don't need to be as good as Firemen. Really, it's all about getting the best Firemen that you can. They're really the ones who prevent a lot of wins from turning into losses.

[Scottiedog43]

Originally Posted by Brad K

In your first post you said you had a weak bullpen. Now it's OK and the SPs are the problem. How is anyone to make suggestions when the problem is changing?

Sorry Brad I misspoke. I meant to say I have decent SP’s not MR’s. Apologies.
I flipped the roles accidentally.

[Scottiedog43]

Kq76
You wrote a lot so I’ll try to answer your questions and thoughts.
If I skip one just say “What about XYZ” LOL
I really only sim. Once in a blue moon I may play a game.
So, bullpen roles would be very important for me.
Mostly from happenstance I have all GB or NEU guys in pen (at the moment). And, to boot, I play in a pitcher’s ballpark.
I follow your train of thinking on CL. He’s a good pitcher but not my best guy on pen. I like to have the tougher guys work as stoppers/high leverage guys.
As far as in general, all the pen is ok on stuff/movement etc….however, I have 2/3 with control issues.
I think I gotcha pretty well. Again if I missed something just ask.
Thanks

[Scottiedog43]

Oh, also I watched a video that suggested setting guys up as specialists. So, I use that too. Hoping to create better match ups.
What’s your feel on that?
I’ve used in the past in 1 or 2 guys…not much more.
I’ve never had basically most my pen set up that way as currently am experimenting with.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Scottiedog43

Oh, also I watched a video that suggested setting guys up as specialists. So, I use that too. Hoping to create better match ups.
What’s your feel on that?
I’ve used in the past in 1 or 2 guys…not much more.
I’ve never had basically most my pen set up that way as currently am experimenting with.

Since I play my games out now, I don't have much use for assigning roles as I'm going to decide when to bring them in anyway. I didn't feel like I had a tremendous success with my bullpen when I only simmed so that's why I suggested the all MR strategy that some swear by. Your worst relievers I'd assign them a long relief / mopup role, but the rest now I'd probably assign as MRs and maybe a decent, but not great, guy as closer or stopper. Your best guys also assign them the secondary role of "high leverage". The key is to have your best guys available for the game to use them in fireman situations, which I think typically occur when the game looks for a MR. If you have a guy who's really good against one handedness, but not the other, then maybe assign him as a specialist, but I wouldn't assign as a specialist a guy who's great against one but also good against the other (you want him as a fireman). I should say I do see the value of a good reliever closing out the game in the 9th versus bringing them in to start a different inning (if you shut them down, you don't have to play extra innings, and if he doesn't blow it, you don't lose the game), I just think your very best relievers are more valuable in fireman situations. I don't see much point in the setup role either. The ideal time for them doesn't happen often enough and if they're good then I want to use them in, again, firemen situations instead.

One thing I don't know, but would be good to test is: does the game usually bring in relievers assigned the stopper role to start innings, or do they bring them in in the middle of innings as well? If it's the former then, again, he doesn't need to be as good as if it's the latter. Just make sure he's not a 1-inning reliever (contrary from you might believe from IRL, most in OOTP aren't, and I like that).

I do have a very good lefty, when he's not injured, but he's good against lefties and righties so I try to keep him for situations against the best of the opposition's lineup. Since you need to warm up a guy 2 or 3 batters before you bring them in, it can be a little tricky to know who you might need, but I like to warm up 2 guys at once, which also helps if the first guy you bring in happens to really not have his good stuff that day right from the start.

I'll say the one thing I do, that others might not want to do, is I maybe wait a little too long to let a pitcher prove to me that he doesn't have it anymore that game. As you know from today's era, they like to yank pitchers earlier rather than later, which I don't do, but one good thing with yanking pitchers earlier is, I think, you have less situations when you need good firemen, while you have more start an inning situations where any reliever will do. There's a trade-off, of course: you're not using your best pitchers as much as you should or could. And you're probably using more pitchers more than you need to as well, pitchers you might need to use tomorrow. But that's the fun in making your own substitutions for me, how far should you push the pitcher who is in right now?

If you're really having a lot of trouble, don't know what to do, and all the above just sounds like too much, just make sure you're not doing what you definitely shouldn't be doing: assigning your best reliever as a closer or mopup. As long as you don't do that, you'll probably do alright.