Historical Rookies all imported as DH

[Cool Papa Bell]

Run a long time historical/fictional on-line league since 2008 and in season 87. Every year I import a text file of the historical rookies, never had this issue before.

Every single historical rookie imported as DH for position, both hitters and pitchers. The league does not and has never used the DH.

I thought I saw a setting somewhere that would over-ride or prevent that but now I can't seem to find it. Or at least change the historical players to their positions.

Without exception, all 1,015 players came into the pool as DH. I really don't want to have to edit most of these players. Running a re-scout did not change anything.

All of this the past few versions is getting super frustrating. The haphazard addition of features that blow up on-line and historical leagues. The 23-25 year old cliff of Development in V25 that had players all out of the league by age 27. Now this after 20 versions of the game. Getting old and getting not fun and getting about ready to do something about it.

Frustrating that on-line leagues get put to the side and I run 3 with 68 other owners and am in 2 other leagues. Help us out.

[LansdowneSt]

There are days I too feel like the pursuit of an incremental improvement for the next edition breaks three things that were working just fine before. Thanks for posting this.

As to the DH thing, do players have fielding ratings/experience and the position is just DH or are they DH's because the game isn't importing the fielding stats/ratings/experience? What's an example of a player ID and year?

Asking because its something OOTPD will likely eventually ask you when they come by, so may as well add the info in advance.

[Cool Papa Bell]

Thank you so much for the reply man, I really appreciate it! We've been saying it for a number of versions now exactly that. 1 improvement equals 3 other things that blow up and you have to scramble to make things right in your league or work at all.

Many of us are at the point where we might just go back to V18, 19 or 20 when everything seems right and before PT became all the focus. We've seen so much with this game and been loyal for years and super frustrating, even 'upgrading' when we knew what would happen to show support.

Anyway, some details. I have used the text file import for the league I'm referencing since it started nearly 15 years ago and V9 I believe using the lahman database. There have been years when I have had to do a lot of editing because ratings just seemed off on the import. I chalked that up to some internal change and moved on.

This one isn't even that big a deal and will probably fix itself at some point through the scouting process. But it was just another illustration of what we are talking about. A program should not blow up everything that was working right for 5, 7, 12, 16 other versions. I'm sorry, that's just not the way 'upgrades' should work.

I probably wouldn't have even bothered had I not seen the Jackie Robison text that comes up when you load the game. It's just sloppy. ROBISON? If you have a typo that glaring what else is going on?

I've already fixed Mays, Mantle, Bunning and Banks but the 1,011 other players all came in as DH. This is the first time in 17 years of doing this that this particular thing happened. It's not the text file. I imported Ernie Banks individually and he was still a DH as well.

Here is the ID for Mickey Mantle for example mantle001mic


All of the players are rated at their positions but all 1,015 players were showing as DH even pitchers.

Thank you!

[Cool Papa Bell]

I wonder if that is it, I am importing for the 1946 season. I bring the players into the league at age 17-18 based on their birth date. Then let them age/develop as they might. I have always left the Season Year blank. Do I now need to put the Season Year? I've left it blank because it's not really accurate as far as when they started playing in real life.

Since the beginning of the league, I have always used the text file import and left the season year blank since it is on the text file. Attached is the text file I use each season. As I mentioned, it has been working fine as far as this never happening before with DH as the position. The league does not have the DH and has never used it in the settings.

[Cool Papa Bell]

Just an update, I added the Season Year and tried the import again. Same results.

[LansdowneSt]

If I had to guess the cause it is that it is because none of them have stat lines for 1946. As young as Mantle was, he still doesn't have a stat line for the game to read until 1950. So. 1946 is too far away for the game to read it. Absent a stat line the game will generally pick a random position and the DH thing may just be no experience at that random position. What is the import setting for fielding when you do the list import? Has "Career" fielding been tried?

Also, is recalc on or not? If recalc is on, your draft would be confusing but the players would self correct into their historical salves. At a glance this looks like all MLB & MiLB players, even minor D-league guys - so I am guessing it's no recalc, correct? I think if you find/replace 1946 with a later year, those that have years there in the db would come in correctly.

Understanding how you are trying to keep things uniform and use birth year, you may want to switch to "first stat" year if this ends up being the source of the issue. The best way to find the first stat year is to Dr Doom open the odb, grab the Minors Master csv and sort by debut year. That'd be the the new class (less dupes you brought via birthyear already). EDIT: Though you'd need to cross check in case someone was in the MLB before the MiLB so they don't get missed.

I have not tested this but ever since the game reoriented itself to look at stat lines for RAH instead of the debut/retire year fields in the db, stat lines and their existence matter more.

[Cool Papa Bell]

Good stuff man, thank you! I do not use recalc and have never used it. I have used the same procedure to import every year since the league's inception and this is the first time this has happened.

In the past, I have always left the league year blank on the import and used a text file. It has always imported players at their correct positions. I do use Career for the import. Something has changed in the game since I have done the same thing 17 years in a row and never had this happen before over 87 seasons and 16 version changes.

I have the historical minors database and that is how I am able to get all of the players who were born in a given year. It fluctuates but usually between 800-1,200 in a given season.Has always brought players in at their primarily position I'm assuming because I use the Career setting for the import.

It's interesting to note that this is the first time in all of the versions that the only file that shows in the import screens when you begin the process is the Historical Database.odb. In all of the other versions import process, there are multiple files showing. I'm sure it's nothing but is a difference that is showing for the first time ever.

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

If I had to guess the cause it is that it is because none of them have stat lines for 1946. As young as Mantle was, he still doesn't have a stat line for the game to read until 1950. So. 1946 is too far away for the game to read it. Absent a stat line the game will generally pick a random position and the DH thing may just be no experience at that random position. What is the import setting for fielding when you do the list import? Has "Career" fielding been tried?

Also, is recalc on or not? If recalc is on, your draft would be confusing but the players would self correct into their historical salves. At a glance this looks like all MLB & MiLB players, even minor D-league guys - so I am guessing it's no recalc, correct? I think if you find/replace 1946 with a later year, those that have years there in the db would come in correctly.

Understanding how you are trying to keep things uniform and use birth year, you may want to switch to "first stat" year if this ends up being the source of the issue. The best way to find the first stat year is to Dr Doom open the odb, grab the Minors Master csv and sort by debut year. That'd be the the new class (less dupes you brought via birthyear already). EDIT: Though you'd need to cross check in case someone was in the MLB before the MiLB so they don't get missed.

I have not tested this but ever since the game reoriented itself to look at stat lines for RAH instead of the debut/retire year fields in the db, stat lines and their existence matter more.

[szathkey]

I posted this same issue very shortly after the game came out...with screenshots The fact that the players don't have stats in the years they were imported was never an issue in the last version, especially if you were using "Career Stats" as the setting to determine position ratings.

Shouldn't this still warrant a fix as that is the whole point of the "career" setting to determine ratings.

Hope this makes sense.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=360980

[Cool Papa Bell]

Good stuff, thanks man! It definitely is something has changed. The reply to someone that Catfish Hunter was a good hitter so that's why he came in as a DH was pretty spot-on as to how historical leagues rank on levels of priority.

[Matt Arnold]

If players don't have any stats in the import year, then yeah we default them to be listed as a DH. We can probably be a little more generous at giving them a position though going forward.

[szathkey]

Thanks Matt,

Maybe I’m the only one left still playing the old “Spritze Way” by importing players when they turn 18 to see how they develop in the minors, but this new wrinkle definitely interferes.

I would have thought positions would be decided based on the underlying fielding ratings when using the “Career” import settings since they are still importing with experience at those positions.

How is the AI deciding if that isn’t the case?

[Rain King]

Is there any non-cosmetic consequence of this?

Won't teams still draft them based on their overall skills and their position will be adjusted at some point to where they are being deployed?

[Cool Papa Bell]

Is this something that changed with this version? Since 2009 I've been doing it the same way and this is the first time this has happened as far as every player importing as DH.

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

If players don't have any stats in the import year, then yeah we default them to be listed as a DH. We can probably be a little more generous at giving them a position though going forward.

[Cool Papa Bell]

If it is creating them as a DH because there were not stats in a given year, but there are positions listed because the had them in their career. Something has changed again because this is the first time this has happened with the DH listed in literally 16 versions since 2009. If that has changed, then it is likely something else has as well.

Originally Posted by szathkey

Thanks Matt,

Maybe I’m the only one left still playing the old “Spritze Way” by importing players when they turn 18 to see how they develop in the minors, but this new wrinkle definitely interferes.

I would have thought positions would be decided based on the underlying fielding ratings when using the “Career” import settings since they are still importing with experience at those positions.

How is the AI deciding if that isn’t the case?

[Cool Papa Bell]

It's not that, I would assume as re-scouts are done they would get updated but who knows. I've tested it forward several months past the draft pool creation and run multiple re-scouts and they still show as DH. If this has changed, what else has changed and why? Every time for on-line leagues this has been the case, V25 having been a disaster for player development.

Originally Posted by Rain King

Is there any non-cosmetic consequence of this?

Won't teams still draft them based on their overall skills and their position will be adjusted at some point to where they are being deployed?

[szathkey]

Originally Posted by Cool Papa Bell

Is this something that changed with this version? Since 2009 I've been doing it the same way and this is the first time this has happened as far as every player importing as DH.

Same

[szathkey]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Is there any non-cosmetic consequence of this?

Won't teams still draft them based on their overall skills and their position will be adjusted at some point to where they are being deployed?

I think that is more a question for the developers...I haven't tested. I always just manually update the positions so that my long term save isn't compromised.

I would think it would affect the draft since there are positional adjustments made to overall ratings...maybe a 50 overall DH is drafted in round 5, but if he was a 70 overall SS he may go in rounds 1 or 2.

[Cool Papa Bell]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

If players don't have any stats in the import year, then yeah we default them to be listed as a DH. We can probably be a little more generous at giving them a position though going forward.

Thanks Matt, this is fixed and good to go! Players are now back to the way they used to import in prior versions with their positions and not all as DH. Not sure what else changed because they did import slightly different as far as ratings, but glad the DH default is corrected.