Blue Jays fire JP Riccardi

damientheomen3 · 10-03-2009, 01:08 PM

Blue Jays fire GM Ricciardi after eight seasons - MLB News - FOX Sports on MSN

thoughts?

Le Grande Orange · 10-03-2009, 01:12 PM

I suspect the gutting of the team is about to begin. I hope I'm wrong. There are some good players on the club.

Green & Gold Heart · 10-03-2009, 01:39 PM

I guess he should have traded Halladay at the deadline.

Le Grande Orange · 10-03-2009, 01:42 PM

The one good thing about this story is that it will at least push the Maple Leafs and hockey out of the top slot for sports news 'round here. The NHL season is only three days old and I'm already sick to death of it. If I never hear another story about the Maple Leafs it'll be too soon.

William Foster · 10-03-2009, 01:44 PM

Long deserved IMO. He's made a ton of really piss-poor decisions and while he built a relatively good team with some nice pieces he never drafted a player that may have pushed them over the hump in AL East and the team had been treading water for quite some time.

William Foster · 10-03-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I suspect the gutting of the team is about to begin. I hope I'm wrong. There are some good players on the club.

I agree. A total top-bottom rebuild isn't necessary with where the Jays are currently at least IMO. They have pieces that belong on any competitive club.

phightin · 10-03-2009, 02:01 PM

I said this before and I'll say it again. I never had seen a gm in any sport handle the halladay situation as badly as he did during the deadline. I think that was merely the straw that broke the camel's back though so to say. Or maybe we're all wrong and he's such a genius that his advanced method and plan can not be understood by the mlb and the its fans. After all, all great geniuses are misunderstood.

kq76 · 10-03-2009, 02:11 PM

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I actually jumped out of my chair and yelled that and more when I saw the news.

There's finally hope again. I can't believe I had so much faith in him in the beginning. I feel like a dope for it. Now I'm just afraid that they'll gut the team and it'll get even worse, but I suppose it can't get much worse than the last few months.

Le Grande Orange · 10-03-2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Foster

...and while he built a relatively good team with some nice pieces he never drafted a player that may have pushed them over the hump in AL East and the team had been treading water for quite some time.

The AL East is a big part of the problem. As long as the Jays are stuck in that division they're never going to make the playoffs consistently; the best they can hope for is a one-off like Tampa had last season. The economics of baseball have changed far too much since Toronto won consecutive World Series in 1992-93.

Numbers to consider:

The 2009 season marks the 15th season using the wild card. Over those 15 seasons, the wild card winner has come out of the AL East 11 times. Of those 11 times, only once was the qualifier not either the Red Sox or Yankees. That exception was Baltimore, and it happened way back in 1996.

In terms of AL East division titles, it's no better. Of those 15 seasons, only twice was the division winner not either the Red Sox or Yankees. The exceptions? Baltimore in 1997 and Tampa in 2008.

canadiancreed · 10-03-2009, 02:55 PM

Long overdue.

crackpott · 10-03-2009, 03:46 PM

I'm happy JP is gone, but I don't understand this theory that the team doesn't need to be gutted.

Vernon's stuck here regardless, but we don't have the option of just signing players to fill holes. His contract jumps up dramatically in both of the upcoming years, so... a lot of money will need to go into paying him.

Our minors... suck. We have nothing on the horizon. We certainly don't have enough close pieces to do anything helpful.

Thus our team... is our crappy team from this year. And if you don't trade Halladay, he's gone at the end of it. If you DO trade him... we're not going to win anyway.

Trade Halladay. Trade Overbay (if you can get something useful, anyway). Trade Downs, Encarnacion, etc. Hell, I'd entertain the idea of trading one of the two valuable young pieces if it got us a lot of good young talent back (Hill, Lind). The current roster is not going to win even with some additions. We would need a great SS to mimic Scutaro's year. We need a new catcher. Unless you're convinced Ruiz is going to keep up what he did, we need a new outfielder. And that's just to match the crappiness.

I hope a rebuild is coming. I'm just glad it's not JP in control of it.

darkenigma510 · 10-03-2009, 04:56 PM

Hallelujah. Made my weekend.

kq76 · 10-03-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crackpott

I'm happy JP is gone, but I don't understand this theory that the team doesn't need to be gutted.

Well, when I said I hope they don't gut the team I was meaning permanently à la Florida, Cleveland, etc. Being in the AL East it might make sense because they probably just can't compete on an ongoing basis with those two behemoth payrolls and so maybe all you can really do realistically is hope to catch lightning in a bottle like Tampa Bay did last year, but I'd just hate to see us constantly shuffle off any good players that we'll grow attached to as they develop. Maybe it'd be best to resign ourselves to being just another feeder team, but I'd rather not give up the fight just yet.

It's obvious it's best to get whatever they can for Doc, etc, but IMO they'd be complete fools to give up Lind or Hill right now because those two could still have long and bright futures with the Jays. And while sometimes you get back more in a trade with prospects in the end, it's a crapshoot so why get rid of them until you're pretty much forced to or get nothing like with Doc. With dedicated ownership and strong management (admittedly, both are big question marks ATM), this team just might be able to contend in a few years.

Left-handed Badger · 10-03-2009, 05:20 PM

About damn time!

canadiancreed · 10-03-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

Well, when I said I hope they don't gut the team I was meaning permanently à la Florida, Cleveland, etc. Being in the AL East it might make sense because they probably just can't compete on an ongoing basis with those two behemoth payrolls and so maybe all you can really do realistically is hope to catch lightning in a bottle like Tampa Bay did last year, but I'd just hate to see us constantly shuffle off any good players that we'll grow attached to as they develop. Maybe it'd be best to resign ourselves to being just another feeder team, but I'd rather not give up the fight just yet.

It's obvious it's best to get whatever they can for Doc, etc, but IMO they'd be complete fools to give up Lind or Hill right now because those two could still have long and bright futures with the Jays. And while sometimes you get back more in a trade with prospects in the end, it's a crapshoot so why get rid of them until you're pretty much forced to or get nothing like with Doc. With dedicated ownership and strong management (admittedly, both are big question marks ATM), this team just might be able to contend in a few years.

Let's face facts, the Blue Jays are, like 75% of the Major Leagues, a feeder league and will be so barring a crash in interest and revenues for MLB Baseball (that term sounds redundant...MLB Baseball....ah well). Barring a Tampa Bay run we're not seeing the playoffs, even if we get another Pat Gillick again. And with way Toronto based sports teams hire management, that might be a stretch.

darkcloud4579 · 10-03-2009, 06:16 PM

So glad the Jays fired him. I don't believe it's impossible to compete in the AL East, that it's simply a crutch that he used for years to complain about how poor he did his job.

Jays should hire Kim Ng, the Dodgers Assistant GM. She's learned from some of the best.

That said, the Jays could compete. They've got to be as smart as they were in the 80s and 90s. The landscape has changed, but so should their tactics and they no longer do what they used to and as a result, they've lost a ton of ground.

kq76 · 10-03-2009, 06:29 PM

Interesting. It sounds like there's a mutiny going on with the players vs the manager. In my two decades plus of watching baseball, I don't think I've ever heard of such a big problem between players and manager. I guess Gaston is next in line for the guillotine.

darkcloud4579 · 10-03-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

Interesting. It sounds like there's a mutiny going on with the players vs the manager. In my two decades plus of watching baseball, I don't think I've ever heard of such a big problem between players and manager. I guess Gaston is next in line for the guillotine.

He was never a long term solution anyway. I mean, he's a nice stopgap and I appreciate them bringing him back, but he's well past his days as an effective manager. The game is different and the players are WAY different and his methods as a player-manager type just aren't going to work with a team that's not winning like the Jays of old used to.

canadiancreed · 10-03-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

Interesting. It sounds like there's a mutiny going on with the players vs the manager. In my two decades plus of watching baseball, I don't think I've ever heard of such a big problem between players and manager. I guess Gaston is next in line for the guillotine.

I'd bet money the folks complaining are largely the ones sucking ass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkcloud4579

He was never a long term solution anyway. I mean, he's a nice stopgap and I appreciate them bringing him back, but he's well past his days as an effective manager.

Compared to whose replaced him between his first and second incarnation, I dont' hold much, if any faith in them hiring anyone better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkcloud4579

The game is different and the players are WAY different and his methods as a player-manager type just aren't going to work with a team that's not winning like the Jays of old used to.

Could they have really done any better with another manager? Probably not. Not trying to be a Gaston apologist, but the record, and the current staff not comparing to when the Jays were good doesn't hurt.

darkenigma510 · 10-03-2009, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

i'd bet money the folks complaining are largely the ones sucking ass..

+1

10-03-2009, 01:44 PM	#5
William Foster Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 120	Long deserved IMO. He's made a ton of really piss-poor decisions and while he built a relatively good team with some nice pieces he never drafted a player that may have pushed them over the hump in AL East and the team had been treading water for quite some time. __________________ Past Dynasties: The Bright Side of the Bay (Abandoned)

10-03-2009, 02:11 PM	#8
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,755	YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I actually jumped out of my chair and yelled that and more when I saw the news. There's finally hope again. I can't believe I had so much faith in him in the beginning. I feel like a dope for it. Now I'm just afraid that they'll gut the team and it'll get even worse, but I suppose it can't get much worse than the last few months. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

10-03-2009, 03:46 PM	#11
crackpott Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,961	I'm happy JP is gone, but I don't understand this theory that the team doesn't need to be gutted. Vernon's stuck here regardless, but we don't have the option of just signing players to fill holes. His contract jumps up dramatically in both of the upcoming years, so... a lot of money will need to go into paying him. Our minors... suck. We have nothing on the horizon. We certainly don't have enough close pieces to do anything helpful. Thus our team... is our crappy team from this year. And if you don't trade Halladay, he's gone at the end of it. If you DO trade him... we're not going to win anyway. Trade Halladay. Trade Overbay (if you can get something useful, anyway). Trade Downs, Encarnacion, etc. Hell, I'd entertain the idea of trading one of the two valuable young pieces if it got us a lot of good young talent back (Hill, Lind). The current roster is not going to win even with some additions. We would need a great SS to mimic Scutaro's year. We need a new catcher. Unless you're convinced Ruiz is going to keep up what he did, we need a new outfielder. And that's just to match the crappiness. I hope a rebuild is coming. I'm just glad it's not JP in control of it. __________________ Abandoned Planet - Check it out. The photos don't suck anymore.

10-03-2009, 05:20 PM	#14
Left-handed Badger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: at the altar of the baseball god praying for middle infield that can catch the ball Posts: 2,036	About damn time! __________________ -Left-handed groundball specialist -Strikeouts are for wimps

10-03-2009, 06:16 PM	#16
darkcloud4579 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 8,663	So glad the Jays fired him. I don't believe it's impossible to compete in the AL East, that it's simply a crutch that he used for years to complain about how poor he did his job. Jays should hire Kim Ng, the Dodgers Assistant GM. She's learned from some of the best. That said, the Jays could compete. They've got to be as smart as they were in the 80s and 90s. The landscape has changed, but so should their tactics and they no longer do what they used to and as a result, they've lost a ton of ground. __________________ ------ My Mods Managerial Strategy Pack Competitive Balance Tax Calculator Major League Women's Baseball (OOTP24) quickstart Indian Premier League \| 300+ years of baseball quickstart \| Expatriate League quickstart \| Off-Field Injuries Update \| Women's Name File for OOTP \| ---- Dynasty classics: Centurion comes to OOTP5 \| DC Moneyball Dynasty (2004)

10-03-2009, 01:12 PM	#2
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	I suspect the gutting of the team is about to begin. I hope I'm wrong. There are some good players on the club.

10-03-2009, 01:39 PM	#3
Green & Gold Heart Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 5,242	I guess he should have traded Halladay at the deadline.

10-03-2009, 01:42 PM	#4
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	The one good thing about this story is that it will at least push the Maple Leafs and hockey out of the top slot for sports news 'round here. The NHL season is only three days old and I'm already sick to death of it. If I never hear another story about the Maple Leafs it'll be too soon.

10-03-2009, 02:01 PM	#7
phightin All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 581	I said this before and I'll say it again. I never had seen a gm in any sport handle the halladay situation as badly as he did during the deadline. I think that was merely the straw that broke the camel's back though so to say. Or maybe we're all wrong and he's such a genius that his advanced method and plan can not be understood by the mlb and the its fans. After all, all great geniuses are misunderstood.

10-03-2009, 02:55 PM	#10
canadiancreed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 11,660	Long overdue.

10-03-2009, 04:56 PM	#12
darkenigma510 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Wild West Posts: 1,353	Hallelujah. Made my weekend.

10-03-2009, 06:29 PM	#17
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,755	Interesting. It sounds like there's a mutiny going on with the players vs the manager. In my two decades plus of watching baseball, I don't think I've ever heard of such a big problem between players and manager. I guess Gaston is next in line for the guillotine. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)