Thoughts on playing through injury

[pgjocki]

Let me level set:

Masyn Winn was just injured in a collision at 2B trying to turn a double play and is now listed as Day-to-Day with a recovery time of 2-3 weeks. Under Influences Throwing it is listed as Moderate.

I'm only 5 games into the season so still a very long way to go but he is hitting .353 with a OBP of .450 and is a human vacuum out at short.

What's your thoughts on rolling the dice and letting him play verse putting him on the IL for two weeks and playing it safe? I have Crawford who can slot right in so no huge let down on defense and I wouldn't mind getting either Victor Scott II who started the year at Memphis but is already hitting .450 down there or even Alfonso Rivas who can help in the outfield as well until Carson and Nootbaar come back off the IL.

Obviously not ideal just wondering if others have faced the same dilemma so far with 25.

[slugga27]

Personally, I would IL him, but you could also DH him. It really depends on what the rest of your team looks like.


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[locuspc]

Case by case, based on who would be backing him up. I usually shut down hitting injuries for batters and throwing injuries for pitchers even if the impact is minimal. For pitchers in the world of DH I don't care about running or hitting injuries. Throwing and running injuries for batters is a case by case situation, but if I have a prospect I'm itching to try out, I'll tend to IL the guy and bring the prospect up.

[MaxAthlete]

I go into game strategy, and usually sit them for X amount of days. If their injury is 2 weeks, I’ll sit them for 10 days. Or 12 days. Just depends who they are.

[pgjocki]

Thanks

So far I've just sat him on the bench for the last two games since I am doing 1 pitch sim for each game it doesn't take to long to go through a game. Part of me wants to just send him to the IL and not risk it but then that comes with a lot of roster moves and maybe he will be alright.

Decisions, decisions.

[FantasyDrafter]

DH is almost certainly fine. Ohtani is in exactly this situation IRL this year (only worse) and the game has no issue with him playing as a DH for the whole season (if you haven’t tried it).

If Wynn plays in the field you are definitely taking a risk.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by pgjocki

Let me level set:

Masyn Winn was just injured in a collision at 2B trying to turn a double play and is now listed as Day-to-Day with a recovery time of 2-3 weeks. Under Influences Throwing it is listed as Moderate.

I'm only 5 games into the season so still a very long way to go but he is hitting .353 with a OBP of .450 and is a human vacuum out at short.

What's your thoughts on rolling the dice and letting him play verse putting him on the IL for two weeks and playing it safe? I have Crawford who can slot right in so no huge let down on defense and I wouldn't mind getting either Victor Scott II who started the year at Memphis but is already hitting .450 down there or even Alfonso Rivas who can help in the outfield as well until Carson and Nootbaar come back off the IL.

Obviously not ideal just wondering if others have faced the same dilemma so far with 25.

My experience is that these guys either get hit with another injury or else that injury degrades to nagging status a *lot*. Then again, these day to day hurts happen to guys who are Prone or Wrecked quite a bit more often than guys who aren’t and so I tend to take these on a case by case basis.

DHing a player eliminates their chances of getting a running or throwing injury in the field but of course it does nothing for hitting and baserunning injuries, so while it can help it’s anything but a panacea.

[Pdubya64]

I have to agree with Syd here; I have some bad memories of letting players go without at least taking them out of the lineup. Seems like more often than not they make things worse.
The same thing applies to not letting players coming off the IL the recommended time to ease back into playing major league games again. Just don't do it, no matter how tempting. A day or three early when they have been out quite a while is one thing, but rushing them back doesn't pay.

Matter of fact it is a good idea to take time and limit their innings pitched or played for a couple weeks or so. Caution is key, the game is pretty realistic even on "Classic" injury settings.

[FantasyDrafter]

I assumed, possibly incorrectly, that the only impact in this injury is Moderate Throwing. If so, and if he makes sense to DH or pinch hit in your team my experience says that even on default injuries (pretty sure that is high nowadays) there is no greater risk to him hitting or running, just don’t put him in the field.

If he is even minimal in the other categories, and especially if I care about the player for the long term, 9/10 times he would already be on the DL for me. If I’m in a 40 man crunch I might debate it but that’s about the only reason.

[md40022]

^^^ I was actually under the impression that playing an injured player at all, even if just DHing, did run the risk of making the injury worse - regardless of what the injury type was. (though DH'ing would be better than playing defense)

I could totally be wrong about that, but I thought there was discussion about this a few years back and the belief was that the type of injury would influence a specific set of ratings (throwing affected moderately would affect defensive ratings, obviously), but even DHing that player, where he wouldn't be throwing, still ran the risk of worsening the injury........ I could be wrong though.

As for how I handle this personally, there's a ton of variables. Who is the player? Where am I in the standings and is it early or late in the season? If I can avoid playing him without sabotaging the season, I absolutely do avoid it or at least cut back on his playing time as much possible.

[FantasyDrafter]

Originally Posted by md40022

^^^ I was actually under the impression that playing an injured player at all, even if just DHing, did run the risk of making the injury worse - regardless of what the injury type was. (though DH'ing would be better than playing defense)

I could totally be wrong about that, but I thought there was discussion about this a few years back and the belief was that the type of injury would influence a specific set of ratings (throwing affected moderately would affect defensive ratings, obviously), but even DHing that player, where he wouldn't be throwing, still ran the risk of worsening the injury........ I could be wrong though.

As for how I handle this personally, there's a ton of variables. Who is the player? Where am I in the standings and is it early or late in the season? If I can avoid playing him without sabotaging the season, I absolutely do avoid it or at least cut back on his playing time as much possible.

I agree with you - I would always be in the camp of “put him on the DL”.

Specific to OOTP25, which has to deal with a very unique case this year with Ohtani (and using Harper last year) I can tell you the AI this year has zero qualms using Ohtani at DH all year and typically he is starting late in the season.

As a result I did test it when it came up in a season (throwing injury only) and when I have used it players don’t seem any more likely to get injured or have it linger.

[Pelican]

Agree with the consensus. You definitely don't want him throwing, so he can't play defense. Like Syd I have seen injuries get worse - and I am conservative about the IL. Looking at the specific injury, I see little risk in using him as a DH. Harper was fine.

[md40022]

Originally Posted by FantasyDrafter

As a result I did test it when it came up in a season (throwing injury only) and when I have used it players don’t seem any more likely to get injured or have it linger.

Do you mind if I ask the extent of your testing?

Not doubting you at all, you do wayyyy more testing than I ever have. I'm just curious if they programmed in a specific exception for Ohtani's arm injury this year (given that he is literally the outlier of all outliers in baseball history) or if this was a full-blown adjustment made across the board.

Just using a throwing / arm injury for example, I think the belief has always been that his throwing ratings / attributes will be the only ratings to be negatively affected by the injury, BUT further injury remained a possibility any time he was in the lineup what so over, DH included. Your point about Ohtani's arm injury yet DHing all season is obviously valid -- I'm just curious if the testing you've done on random player A and random player B, with similar throwing / arm injuries, was a large enough of a sample size where we could call the results credible.

[FantasyDrafter]

Originally Posted by md40022

Do you mind if I ask the extent of your testing?

Not doubting you at all, you do wayyyy more testing than I ever have. I'm just curious if they programmed in a specific exception for Ohtani's arm injury this year (given that he is literally the outlier or all outliers in baseball history) or if this was a full-blown adjustment made across the board.

Just using a throwing / arm injury for example, I think the belief has always been that his throwing ratings / attributes will be the only ratings to be negatively affected by the injury, BUT further injury remained a possibility any time he was in the lineup what so over, DH included. Your point about Ohtani's arm injury yet DHing all season is obviously valid -- I'm just curious if the testing you've done on random player A and random player B, with similar throwing / arm injuries, was a large enough of a sample size where we could call the results credible.

It is honestly hard to duplicate, I did force an injury on a couple guys and ran the sim forward through their injury with them as the DH and it looked like they played all the games and weren’t “more likely” to get injured. Ohtani the AI definitely expects to play as DH. Of course any player can get injured at any time and I definitely do not recommend playing anyone in the field or hitting who has an injury that impacts all areas.

Did they adjust anything behind the scenes? No idea. I have always been cautious. Maybe too cautious? Just knowing this was a weird situation and then seeing the AI draft him much later than I expected in an inaugural draft put it in my radar (same AI that has no problem drafting DeGrom #1 overall).

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by md40022

^^^ I was actually under the impression that playing an injured player at all, even if just DHing, did run the risk of making the injury worse - regardless of what the injury type was. (though DH'ing would be better than playing defense)

I could totally be wrong about that, but I thought there was discussion about this a few years back and the belief was that the type of injury would influence a specific set of ratings (throwing affected moderately would affect defensive ratings, obviously), but even DHing that player, where he wouldn't be throwing, still ran the risk of worsening the injury........ I could be wrong though.

As for how I handle this personally, there's a ton of variables. Who is the player? Where am I in the standings and is it early or late in the season? If I can avoid playing him without sabotaging the season, I absolutely do avoid it or at least cut back on his playing time as much possible.

It definitely seems that way for pitchers, that even if they have a non throwing injury they’re still more likely to get hurt and the AI will pull them very quickly if you leave them in your rotation. For hitters, I’ve only just added the DH to my league and a couple of guys I have were specifically moved there due to injury proneness, but DHing them definitely didn’t *stop* the injury rates.

[md40022]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

It definitely seems that way for pitchers, that even if they have a non throwing injury they’re still more likely to get hurt and the AI will pull them very quickly if you leave them in your rotation. For hitters, I’ve only just added the DH to my league and a couple of guys I have were specifically moved there due to injury proneness, but DHing them definitely didn’t *stop* the injury rates.

That's where I'm at with this as well. And like you said, the DH think is still relatively new (I play with a National League team) so that only became an option recently.