Tired pitchers...

jbsnadb · 06-17-2006, 04:23 AM

It is very frustrating (this has been an issue from previous versions) that once a pitcher gets tired, he becomes the worst pitcher on the face of the earth! I had a starter (with 12 Endurance) going for a shutout in the ninth. he had thrown 107 pitches heading into the inning, and here's what happened:

As you can see, my reliever who came in wasn't much better. What was a 6-0 blowout with one out in the bottom of the ninth, became a 6-5 nailbiter, after 6 walks and 2 singles before my closer finally shut the door.

mrbill · 06-17-2006, 05:11 AM

This seems highly anecdotal. And, some pitchers do get dramatically worse after 100 pitches. Especially if their endurance isn't up for that kind of workout.

I recall a Pirates game this season where Oliver Perez took a shutout into the 9th, gave up a few baserunners and a run or two, and then the bullpen came in (rested, mind you), and proceeded to finish blowing the 4 run lead, as the Pirates eventually lost in extra innings.

I also seem to recall from watching my 'favorite' 2003 playoff game, that Pedro's OAVG before the 100th pitch was like .220, and after was over .300, over a significant period of time.

mrbill · 06-17-2006, 05:12 AM

What I do like about this though, is a LHP reliever was brought in to face three righties in a row. I'm just gonna guess, but that looks more suspicious than blowing a lead in the 9th inning on a tired starter.

Fibonacci · 06-17-2006, 09:51 AM

Chances are, your pitcher tired gradually leading up to his disastrous denouement. If you visit the mound regularly you will receive comments from your pitcher ranging from "I'm perfect", to "I can barely lift my arm".

Ofcourse, you can only visit the mound once per inning; you can also check his current condition anytime by visiting his player profile.

tysok · 06-17-2006, 10:35 AM

Tired pitchers get rocked. If a pitcher is tired his arm angle can change, the flick of his wrist isn't as strong, he doesn't push off the mound as hard, his stride can change.... all of these things end up in a loss of control, velocity, and/or movement. Your pitcher was probably very tired, with an endurance of 12 (I assume out of 20) I'd feel lucky he made it through 8 innings. 12 is a 6 or 7 inning starter on the good side from what I've seen (which isn't much at this point).

Ambermonk · 06-17-2006, 02:15 PM

In my league I have my pitcher endurance set to "High", but no pitcher can get past the 7th inning without tiring. I can't believe what just happened...

My star pitcher had en endurance of 91/100. He was pitching a no-hitter. By the end of the 7th inning he had given up no hits & no walks - and thrown only 85 pitches! But I had to take him out because he was 40%-tired!

This just isn't right. I have now set my league pitcher endurance to "very high" but I am certain that the problem runs deeper than this.

mrbill · 06-17-2006, 02:54 PM

What does 40% tired mean in terms of ability to pitch?

Ambermonk · 06-17-2006, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbill

What does 40% tired mean in terms of ability to pitch?

Wish I knew. I must admit - this early with the game, I have not left a pitcher in the game when the display showed that he was tired.

By the way, I am playing solo & as commissioner, so this information should be the real deal.

david limbaugh · 06-17-2006, 10:31 PM

the current Atlanta Braves pitching staff ;-)

Ambermonk · 06-19-2006, 07:41 PM

Well, I have now tried setting the pitcher endurance on "Very High".

While "high" didn't seem to be endurance enough, "very high" seemed to turn my pitchers into supermen! One of my pithchers pitched a complete game with little fatigue and the next day was 94% rested and ready to go again.

jbsnadb · 06-19-2006, 08:06 PM

I have been having similar problems with relievers after 20 pitches. The leftie was brought in because he had given up one hit in 12 innning on the month and was my most reliable relief pitcher on my staff, holding RHB to under .200 for the season.

I miss the pitcher's name changing colors to denote whether or not he is tired. Checking his profile after every batter is tedious, as is visiting the mound, especially since I always get the feeling when they say "I'm fine - just let me pitch" they get mad and lose their concentration. But that could just be me.

Raidergoo · 06-19-2006, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambermonk

Well, I have now tried setting the pitcher endurance on "Very High".

While "high" didn't seem to be endurance enough, "very high" seemed to turn my pitchers into supermen! One of my pithchers pitched a complete game with little fatigue and the next day was 94% rested and ready to go again.

If you set to very high, think 19th Century baseball, when men where Men.

Ambermonk · 06-20-2006, 01:27 AM

After further play, I've noticed something else. After 7 innings (94 pitches) my pitcher came to bat. I clicked on him to check his status. He was at 40% and tired. On a hunch, I let him bat.

When he came out to pitch the next inning, the batter/pitcher toggle at the lower left of the SION Broadcast screen said he was OK.

I suspect that this may be a false "Tired" reading when clicking directly on the pitcher.

This game was played after I changed pitcher endurance back to "High". By the way, I'm playing c1960 when men were "mostly" men. ;-)

battists · 07-07-2006, 02:09 PM

Hi guys, sorry for joining this party so late.

The issue with endurance is being discussed in at least one other thread (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?t=124338).

Apart from that, while there are some debates about strategy, I'm not sure there are any technical support issues in this thread.As Mr Bill said, it's pretty anecdotal at this point.

On top of this, the new patch is out today, so I'm going to move this over to the Closed/Claimed Fixed forum for now.

If you continue to see issues like this after applying the patch, we're happy to discuss further.

06-17-2006, 04:23 AM	#1
jbsnadb All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,098	Tired pitchers... It is very frustrating (this has been an issue from previous versions) that once a pitcher gets tired, he becomes the worst pitcher on the face of the earth! I had a starter (with 12 Endurance) going for a shutout in the ninth. he had thrown 107 pitches heading into the inning, and here's what happened: As you can see, my reliever who came in wasn't much better. What was a 6-0 blowout with one out in the bottom of the ninth, became a 6-5 nailbiter, after 6 walks and 2 singles before my closer finally shut the door. Attached Images Last edited by jbsnadb; 06-17-2006 at 04:27 AM.

06-17-2006, 05:11 AM	#2
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	This seems highly anecdotal. And, some pitchers do get dramatically worse after 100 pitches. Especially if their endurance isn't up for that kind of workout. I recall a Pirates game this season where Oliver Perez took a shutout into the 9th, gave up a few baserunners and a run or two, and then the bullpen came in (rested, mind you), and proceeded to finish blowing the 4 run lead, as the Pirates eventually lost in extra innings. I also seem to recall from watching my 'favorite' 2003 playoff game, that Pedro's OAVG before the 100th pitch was like .220, and after was over .300, over a significant period of time. __________________ UBL - Best Online League Evar! - Los Angeles Dodgers: 25 seasons, 13 NL West titles, 4 WC, 8 NL Titles, 5-time Champs LBB v5 league (retired) - Detroit Tigers/Commish: 19 seasons, 18 straight AL Central titles, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015 Champs! NGBL v6 league (dead) - Texas Rangers: 10 seasons, 4 AL South titles, 2 Wild Cards, one WS app

06-17-2006, 05:12 AM	#3
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	What I do like about this though, is a LHP reliever was brought in to face three righties in a row. I'm just gonna guess, but that looks more suspicious than blowing a lead in the 9th inning on a tired starter. __________________ UBL - Best Online League Evar! - Los Angeles Dodgers: 25 seasons, 13 NL West titles, 4 WC, 8 NL Titles, 5-time Champs LBB v5 league (retired) - Detroit Tigers/Commish: 19 seasons, 18 straight AL Central titles, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015 Champs! NGBL v6 league (dead) - Texas Rangers: 10 seasons, 4 AL South titles, 2 Wild Cards, one WS app

06-17-2006, 09:51 AM	#4
Fibonacci Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 283	Chances are, your pitcher tired gradually leading up to his disastrous denouement. If you visit the mound regularly you will receive comments from your pitcher ranging from "I'm perfect", to "I can barely lift my arm". Ofcourse, you can only visit the mound once per inning; you can also check his current condition anytime by visiting his player profile. __________________ It is not certain that everything is uncertain. - Blaise Pascal

06-17-2006, 02:54 PM	#7
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	What does 40% tired mean in terms of ability to pitch? __________________ UBL - Best Online League Evar! - Los Angeles Dodgers: 25 seasons, 13 NL West titles, 4 WC, 8 NL Titles, 5-time Champs LBB v5 league (retired) - Detroit Tigers/Commish: 19 seasons, 18 straight AL Central titles, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015 Champs! NGBL v6 league (dead) - Texas Rangers: 10 seasons, 4 AL South titles, 2 Wild Cards, one WS app

06-17-2006, 10:35 AM	#5
tysok Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,925	Tired pitchers get rocked. If a pitcher is tired his arm angle can change, the flick of his wrist isn't as strong, he doesn't push off the mound as hard, his stride can change.... all of these things end up in a loss of control, velocity, and/or movement. Your pitcher was probably very tired, with an endurance of 12 (I assume out of 20) I'd feel lucky he made it through 8 innings. 12 is a 6 or 7 inning starter on the good side from what I've seen (which isn't much at this point).

06-17-2006, 02:15 PM	#6
Ambermonk All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 1,257	In my league I have my pitcher endurance set to "High", but no pitcher can get past the 7th inning without tiring. I can't believe what just happened... My star pitcher had en endurance of 91/100. He was pitching a no-hitter. By the end of the 7th inning he had given up no hits & no walks - and thrown only 85 pitches! But I had to take him out because he was 40%-tired! This just isn't right. I have now set my league pitcher endurance to "very high" but I am certain that the problem runs deeper than this.

06-17-2006, 10:31 PM	#9
david limbaugh All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Murfreesboro (Nashville) Tennessee Posts: 682 Blog Entries: 1	Sounds like... the current Atlanta Braves pitching staff ;-) __________________ @RHS_SID on Twitter - Go Cubs - BoSox - World Series - One Day ...#WhenItHappens

06-19-2006, 07:41 PM	#10
Ambermonk All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 1,257	Well, I have now tried setting the pitcher endurance on "Very High". While "high" didn't seem to be endurance enough, "very high" seemed to turn my pitchers into supermen! One of my pithchers pitched a complete game with little fatigue and the next day was 94% rested and ready to go again.

06-19-2006, 08:06 PM	#11
jbsnadb All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,098	I have been having similar problems with relievers after 20 pitches. The leftie was brought in because he had given up one hit in 12 innning on the month and was my most reliable relief pitcher on my staff, holding RHB to under .200 for the season. I miss the pitcher's name changing colors to denote whether or not he is tired. Checking his profile after every batter is tedious, as is visiting the mound, especially since I always get the feeling when they say "I'm fine - just let me pitch" they get mad and lose their concentration. But that could just be me.

06-20-2006, 01:27 AM	#13
Ambermonk All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 1,257	After further play, I've noticed something else. After 7 innings (94 pitches) my pitcher came to bat. I clicked on him to check his status. He was at 40% and tired. On a hunch, I let him bat. When he came out to pitch the next inning, the batter/pitcher toggle at the lower left of the SION Broadcast screen said he was OK. I suspect that this may be a false "Tired" reading when clicking directly on the pitcher. This game was played after I changed pitcher endurance back to "High". By the way, I'm playing c1960 when men were "mostly" men. ;-)

07-07-2006, 02:09 PM	#14
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506 Blog Entries: 7	Hi guys, sorry for joining this party so late. The issue with endurance is being discussed in at least one other thread (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?t=124338). Apart from that, while there are some debates about strategy, I'm not sure there are any technical support issues in this thread.As Mr Bill said, it's pretty anecdotal at this point. On top of this, the new patch is out today, so I'm going to move this over to the Closed/Claimed Fixed forum for now. If you continue to see issues like this after applying the patch, we're happy to discuss further.