The token Historical Replay, 1903-2006

[H I Mcdonough]

I've owned OOTP 3, 4, 5, took a couple years off, and towards the end of 2007 bought OOTP8. Many, many times over the years I have attempted the complete replay of history, but never finished. Usually it was due to just losing interest. Previously, my best efforts were making it to the mid-70's, and then accidentally sabotaging the whole project by not properly accounting for the arrival of free agency, and having a sort of anarchy take over the league. Another time I made it through 1994 before losing interest. I have no idea why I didn't just finish that one. I seem to recall Bob Horner being the all-time home run leader in that one. Perhaps that's why I didn't finish it.

Anyhow, I finally finished one. I used the in-game database, 3-year recalc, and replayed the complete World Series era, 1903-2006. I know that other databases are often preferred, but I was reasonably happy with the results. I imported players to their original teams from the beginning and never turned the draft on.

The big winners in my replay, from a World Series standpoint, were the Boston Red Sox. 30 post-season appearances and 13 world championships, including a three-peat 1918-1920. (The New York Giants of 1930-1932 and St. Louis Cardinals of 1943-45 also pulled this off). They also spread out their success, winning at least one world title in every decade save the 50's, 60's and 2000's. The Yankees and Giants both won 10 titles, the Washington Senators/Minnesota Twins franchise won 9. The St. Louis Cardinals made the most post-season appearances at 33, but won "only" 7 world championships. They absolutely ruled the National League in the 40's, winning 9 consecutive pennants (1940-48), including 5 world titles in that span.

The only one of the original franchises to have never won a World Series are the St. Louis Browns/Baltimore Orioles. Despite 5 post-season spots, they never capitalized. Actually, besides the Orioles, the only other clubs to have not won at least one championship are Arizona, Colorado, San Diego and Tampa Bay, and only the D-Rays and D-Backs have never made a playoff appearance (the Marlins have won 3 world series).

As far as individual player performances, Ted Williams was the standard. He played 25 seasons, all but one with Boston. He was the rookie of the year in 1939, and then went on to win 15(!) MVPs. 18-time All star, 5 gold gloves. The career leader in OBP (.472), VORP (1857.9), runs (2527), total bases (6859), walks (3154), and of course home runs (752) and RBIs (2353). In 1961, at the age of 42, he hit .303 with 45 homers and 111 rbis, and did not win the MVP. Oh, and he also won 5 triple crowns.

Career batting average leaders: Willie Keeler .356, Ed Delahanty at .3416, Lou Gehrig at .341. Albert Pujols is 4th all-time at .3389, although he obviously has a ways to go.

The career hits top 10: Cobb - 4053, Tony Gwynn - 3909, Eddie Collins - 3885, Ted Williams - 3811, Stan Musial - 3585, Richie Ashburn - 3522, Joe Jackson - 3519, Tris Speaker - 3400, Zach Wheat - 3277, George Brett - 3205. Hornsby, Ott, Appling, Joe Morgan, Molitor, Will Clark, Gehrig, Rafael Palmeiro, Jesse Burkett, Lajoie, Bert Campaneris, and Tillie Shafer round out the 3000 hit club. Campaneris hung around FOREVER and only hit .255 for his career.

In the home run department, after Teddy Ballgame's 752, there was Barry Bonds at 703 and still active. McGwire, Ruth and Griffey Jr. (still active) round out the 600 club. The rest of the 500 club includes Palmeiro, Killebrew, Frank Thomas, Sosa (active), Mantle, Reggie Jackson, McGriff, McCovey, and the still active duo of Larry Walker and Jim Thome. Mel Ott, Johnny Mize and Lou Gehrig all just missed.

Rickey Handerson stole 1095 bases to lead the universe. Ruth hit 61 homers in 1921 and that record stood until McGwire hit 73 in 1995, and that stood until Sosa hit 74 in 2000. Sosa and McGwire both hit 60 in a season 3 times. Ruth and Todd Helton each did it once. Ruth also has the single season RBI record with 205.

The 300-win club is 13 strong, with Cy Young at 522. He's followed by Mathewson, Chief Bender, Walter Johnson, Whitey Ford, Roger Clemens, Gaylord Perry, Curt Simmons, Pete Alexander, Eddie Cicotte, Addie Joss, and Lefty Grove. And finally Steve Carlton finished with exactly 300.

I don't know. I posted this mainly for myself. But if anybody wants to know anything, I'll be happy to look into it.

[Scoman]

Nolan Ryan,Kal Daniels,Jim Thorpe,Smokey Joe Wood

[H I Mcdonough]

Originally Posted by Scoman

Nolan Ryan,Kal Daniels,Jim Thorpe,Smokey Joe Wood

Ryan had a good career, with a total W-L record of 241-216. His ERA was 3.64 and his 3809 strikeouts is good for 3rd all time behind only Roger Clemens and Steve Carlton. Unfortunately he also is the all-time leader in walks, with an alarming 2463. He was an important part of the Mets staff for most of his tenure there, 1966-1983, then spent his final 5 years in Cincinnati before retiring at 41. He threw 2 no hitters, one in 1977 and one in 1983. He also won 2 Cy Youngs in 1974 and 1980, but his best season was probably actually 1979 when he went 20-11, with a 2.15 ERA.

Kal Daniels started out fairly well. He was a starter and put up decent power numbers his first five seasons, all with the Reds. He peaked in his second season of 1987, with a .301/33/82 campaign. In 1991 the Reds traded him at the deadline to the Cubs. That would be his last season as a starter. He spent 92 and 93 as a fourth outfielder and pinch hitter for Atlanta, and spent 1994 filling the same role for Minnesota. 1995 he spent entirely with Philadelphia's AAA affiliate, and most of 96 and 97, coming back to the majors for only late season call ups, recieving only 28 total plate appearances with the Phils. In 1998 he did hit .336 with 23 bombs and 100 rbis, but those numbers came with Philly's AA team and he retired after the season.

Thorpe, by contrast, kind of bloomed late. He spent his first four seasons with the Giants doing next-to-nothing. In 1920 he was traded to the Boston Braves and finally got a chance to start with that woeful team. He did pretty well too, hitting .307 in 124 games and stealing 32 bases in 38 attempts. After that season, he was traded to the Cardinals. He spent 1921 as the teams reserve outfielder and hit .327. Then from 1922-24 he started in left and right field for the Redbirds, hitting .255, .312 and .332 and even won a Gold Glove. He was a reserve from there on out, hanging on a couple years too long and hanging them up after the 1928 season, finishing with a .280 career mark.

Finally, Smokey Joe Wood. During his pitching years of 1908-17, he was solid and occasionally exceptional. He went 152-142 total, won 20 games twice, and his best year was unquestionably 1913, when he went 23-13 with a 2.46 era. His career era was 2.73. He was with Boston as a hitter until 1925, and then was traded mid-season to Cincinnati. He finished his career there, retiring in 1928 with a career .250 average. He only had 300 at-bats in a season once and honestly never did much in the second half of his career.

[Scoman]

Nice career summaries, how about Jim Rice, Bobby Tolan, Luis Tiant and Casey Stengal?

[BaseballMan]

i ran some leagues like that where you import players to their original teams
and the red sox and cardinals always seem to dominate. I figured the yankees would at least get a lot of championships in the 30's, 40's & 50's. Doesnt seem to happen at least in the leagues ive ran.
Btw Sandy Koufax & Willie Mays

[H I Mcdonough]

Originally Posted by Scoman

Nice career summaries, how about Jim Rice, Bobby Tolan, Luis Tiant and Casey Stengal?

Jim Rice had a cup of coffee with the BoSox in 1974 before securing the starting job in left the next year, when Boston won a World Series. Showed flashes of power those first couple of seasons, and then broke out with a monster season in 1977, hitting .324/49/114. He missed the bulk of 78 with a back injury and then returned with another big effort the following season, posting .290/35/119. His power numbers then began a slow and mysterious descent. He remained the starting left fielder for four more years in Boston, but the rest of his career his home run totals hovered in the mid teens, and he only hit more than 20 again twice. In 1984 he spent 84 games at DH, and a little over 20 games in left as the Sox attempted some sort of weird quad-platoon situation with Rice, Reid Nichols, Lamar Johnson and Ron LeFlore. Was traded to the Mets during the 84 off-season and he played two seasons there, hitting 17 dingers both years and hovering around .250. Spent two more seasons providing bench support for the Expos and was released 2 months into his third year with the team, 1989. Signed a deal with the Giants to finish out the campaign but didn't make it back to the bigs and retired after the season ended. He hit .277 for his career, with 289 homers and just over 1,000 rbis.

Not a lot to say about Tolan. Spent 1965-74 with the Cardinals. Best seasons were 67-71 when he played all the outfield spots and a little first base. During those peak years he averaged around .290/11/70. Warmed the bench a couple more years in St. Louis, then spent portions of 75 and 76 with the White Sox and Astros. Basically washed up at 30, he bounced around the minors through 1979 before hanging 'em up.

Luis Tiant never developed into a consistant pitcher. He was always an innings eater, finishing with over 4200 in his 19 seasons. He won 19 games once and 18 twice. He also lost at least 20 games five times. Career W-L was 203-275. Career era was 4.15, definitely not stellar, but he played for some lousy teams and had a few years when he deserved a better record then he got. Bounced around a lot too: 1964-68 with Cleveland before being traded to Boston. Spent 1969 in Boston, but then was unceremoniusly released. Signed a deal with Milwaukee but pitched all of 1970 in the minors and was traded to Kansas City within a couple of months. Spent 71 with KC, traded to the Dodgers part way through 72. Spent four horrendous seasons with LA (three 20-loss years, and one 19-loser). Signed with the Yankees for two forgettable years. Spent 1979-1981 with the Brewers and actually had his best success there, scoring 19 and 18 win seasons there at the age of 39 and 40, respectively. Spent 1982 with the Mets, 1983 with KC again, and then retired.

Casey Stengal was the starting center fielder for the Brooklyn Dodgers from 1912-1924. Played steadily but not notably for most of that time, hitting in the .250-.260 range and never really showing much power. Had a completely-out-of-nowhere 1921 season that would've made Brady Anderson proud, when he suddenly went ape**** and hit .332/17/136! In 1922 he had 218 hits, good for .354/12/92 numbers. In 1923 and 24 he returned to his previous Earth-bound form, and in 1925 he only managed 54 at-bats, going from starter to exclusively a pinch-hitter seemingly overnight. The Bums released Casey after that season, and The Old Perfesser ended his career of strange extremes by immediately retiring. He finished .280 for his career, with 1931 hits.

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

i ran some leagues like that where you import players to their original teams
and the red sox and cardinals always seem to dominate. I figured the yankees would at least get a lot of championships in the 30's, 40's & 50's. Doesnt seem to happen at least in the leagues ive ran.
Btw Sandy Koufax & Willie Mays

I guess the secret to the Cards and Sox success is all that home grown talent. The Yanks depended too much on cherry picking from other clubs, I suppose. I too have had similar results in all of my (aborted) replays.

Sandy Koufax was maybe my greatest disappointment. Came up in 1955 and went 11-7 with a 3.24 era but injured his rotator cuff in August and missed the remainder of the season. He didn't suffer a talent drop, but still spent 1956 on Brooklyn's AAA affiliate, pitching mostly in relief. The Dodgers released him after that season. He sat at home, unclaimed for all of 1957, and then retired before 1958 could start. It happened so fat I didn't even catch it until a couple of years down the road. I considered unretiring him, but ultimately decided against it.

Willie Mays had a tremendous career that could have been still better if not for injuries. He missed almost all of 1953 and 1958, and half of 1959. Tore up his knee in 1965 and had a bunch of little nagging injuries in 1968. Still, he retired in 1969 a career Giant, and with 445 lifetime home runs. He won 4 Gold Gloves, made 7 All-Star appearances and won two MVPs (1954 and 62). Those were definitely his two finest offensive seasons, you can debate which was better: .339/43/114 in '54, or .330/46/117 in '62. He ended up with .288/445/1379 lifetime stats, but one has to wonder. If he hadn't missed roughly 2 1/2 seasons due to bad luck, his numbers projected out to about 520 homers and over 1600 rbis.

[Doughnuts?]

I've run several replays with this and the previous version and consistently find two developments that you've seen also. The Yankees don't dominate and Ted Williams is an absolute monster who wins double digit MVP's.

[BaseballMan]

I know the yankees bought some talent but they did bring up a lot of talent too.
Like Dimaggio, Dickey, Gomez, Mantle, Berra, Ford. It seems like they had just has much talent as the red sox and cardinals. The A's are another team that i thought would dominate more especially having Joe Jackson on the those great A's teams. How did they do for you?

[johnnybourbon]

how about the (actual) hits leader Pete Rose??? Charlie Hustle didnt even get 3000 hits???

[H I Mcdonough]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

I know the yankees bought some talent but they did bring up a lot of talent too.
Like Dimaggio, Dickey, Gomez, Mantle, Berra, Ford. It seems like they had just has much talent as the red sox and cardinals. The A's are another team that i thought would dominate more especially having Joe Jackson on the those great A's teams. How did they do for you?

You know, I guess I sold the Yankees a little short. In this replay, they definitely had their greatest string of success in the 30's, 40's and 50's. Between 1930 and 1964 they did win 21 pennants, which is more than a third of their 30 total postseasons, and 9 of their 10 World Championships (the elusive 10th not coming until 1998). And without going into too much detail, all the guys you mentioned were great contributers for them, especially Whitey Ford (DiMaggio and Mantle were good, but not as good as they should've been).

The Athletics were a force early in the 20th century, and of course Joe Jackson was a stud. During his career, 1908-1927, the A's reeled off 8 pennants and 3 world titles. He had some help from Eddie Collins as well, as I am relatively sure they must have the record for most hits by teammates (I'll look into it). They even won the flag in 1928 as well, the year after he retired, on the backs of the still impactful Collins, and the younger studs Mickey Cochrane and Jimmie Foxx. After that they faded fast, and weren't good again until 1970.

As for Joe Jackson, his 3519 hits are good for 7th all time, and his carrer avg of .3374 good for 5th. 604 steals career, 11th all-time. He's also in the top-15 for runs, doubles, triples and rbis. 3-time MVP, 8-time Gold Glove winner. He missed the entire 1920 season with a back injury, then came back the next year to hit .377 with 113 rbis. Hit .415 in 1911, with 253 hits that season, a record for a few years and still second all-time for a single season, behind only Rogers Hornsby's 254.