Did a pinch hitter depth chart find it's way back into OOTP 12?

[WWBL Commissioner]

I really hope this feature comes back it has changed my online league experience I hope we get it back this time around

[Markus Heinsohn]

No, sorry. This does not make much sense anyway, as the AI ranks available pinch hitters on offensive (vs R/L) value and uses them based on the situation. Having the PH in a depth chart would not change this really.

[bailey]

I don't want my back-up catcher pinch-hitting--ever. Does the AI know that?
Would like to see a check-box--> "Never use this player as a pinch-hitter" added.

[The Wolf]

^^

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by bailey

I don't want my back-up catcher pinch-hitting--ever. Does the AI know that?
Would like to see a check-box--> "Never use this player as a pinch-hitter" added.

What if you run out of other pinch hitters?

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by bailey

I don't want my back-up catcher pinch-hitting--ever. Does the AI know that?

Yes, the AI knows that and only uses the backup catcher as PH in really crucial situations.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Yes, the AI knows that and only uses the backup catcher as PH in really crucial situations.

Will the AI use pitchers as PHs if there is no one else and the PHing pitcher is a better hitter than the one batting?

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Will the AI use pitchers as PHs if there is no one else and the PHing pitcher is a better hitter than the one batting?

On occasion, yes. It depends on the situation.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

On occasion, yes. It depends on the situation.

Could they use pitchers as PHs in a game using the DH if they run out of other options?

[statfreak]

Originally Posted by bailey

I don't want my back-up catcher pinch-hitting--ever. Does the AI know that?
Would like to see a check-box--> "Never use this player as a pinch-hitter" added.

The AI appears to know this, unfortunately. I'm the opposite, I do want my backup catcher to pinch hit, but the AI never uses him in that capacity.

I'm hoping to fool it by listing him as a 1B instead (even though he is still in the depth chart as the backup). Just started this so don't know if it will have any effect or not. I imagine not since he's still in the depth chart as the backup catcher, but thought I'd try.

[fhomess]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

No, sorry. This does not make much sense anyway, as the AI ranks available pinch hitters on offensive (vs R/L) value and uses them based on the situation. Having the PH in a depth chart would not change this really.

Sorry, Markus, but you can't presume to know how every GM wants their PH's used. I may actually want a less skilled hitter as my primary pinch hitter because he's young and I want to get him extra AB's. Or I may want my power hitter with the lower average coming in to pinch instead of my higher average singles hitter. Or I may want my lousy hitting septuagenarian as my primary pinch hitter because he's sitting on 2999 hits. I have no way of knowing which guy OOTP will pick, and this level of control really should be given over to the end user.

[CBL-Commish]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

No, sorry. This does not make much sense anyway, as the AI ranks available pinch hitters on offensive (vs R/L) value and uses them based on the situation. Having the PH in a depth chart would not change this really.

I don't think you should assume that the manager is going to act logically.

[Jpotapoff]

Let me add another voice in asking for a PH depth list. I really don't like the philosophy that the computer should choose "the best hitter". I think letting us humans set how we want the AI to manage our team is better than assuming that the AI should make the choice on their own.

How am I to know that the AI looks at the same things when it evaluates who is the best pinch hitter? How about if the player who technically is the best hitter is also my best defensive sub and I don't want him to be used as a pinch hitter as often as others on my bench because I prefer to save him to be a defensive sub? How about I'm resting a starter and don't want him to come in as a pinch hitter unless he has to? How about I don't care about a lefty/righty split as much as the AI does? Or the various other options that might make me value a different bench player more than the AI others have posted.

I'm serious when I say the lack of a PH depth chart is one of the major factors in my decision on whether or not I buy 12.

[Jpotapoff]

Originally Posted by fhomess

Sorry, Markus, but you can't presume to know how every GM wants their PH's used. I may actually want a less skilled hitter as my primary pinch hitter because he's young and I want to get him extra AB's. Or I may want my power hitter with the lower average coming in to pinch instead of my higher average singles hitter. Or I may want my lousy hitting septuagenarian as my primary pinch hitter because he's sitting on 2999 hits. I have no way of knowing which guy OOTP will pick, and this level of control really should be given over to the end user.

Or perhaps I have a bench player whose only viable role on the team is to pinch hit so I want him used more often as a pinch hitter even if there are others who the AI may consider a better hitter. What if I have a bench player who has lower ratings than others but he's on a hot streak or he just seems to pinch hit better than others who are rated higher? Or just somebody I want to get more at bats for one reason or another over others on the bench?

[rujasu]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

No, sorry. This does not make much sense anyway, as the AI ranks available pinch hitters on offensive (vs R/L) value and uses them based on the situation. Having the PH in a depth chart would not change this really.

The whole point of having a depth chart is that we usually don't want the AI making decisions on its own without input from the player. The issue of managers having different philosophies with regard to the backup catcher has been mentioned -- sometimes the backup catcher may be the best hitter on the bench! Also, I often don't agree with the AI's evaluation of a player. If I wanted the AI to decide, I'd just use auto-lineup/depth to begin with.

[WWBL Commissioner]

Markus,
Thanks for the reply, I hope from the replies here you might reconsider putting this back. I adds alot IMO to be able to say who it going to come off the bench in certain situations. It adds depth, it adds realism, it adds to the immersion. I really encourage you to give it some more thought.

[beorn]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

No, sorry. This does not make much sense anyway, as the AI ranks available pinch hitters on offensive (vs R/L) value and uses them based on the situation. Having the PH in a depth chart would not change this really.

I really disagree.

#1. I have actually had to get rid of useful defensive backups because they were PH magnets, constantly used over good bench hitters at crucial times. Drives me nuts!

#2. When playing with ghost players, the AI often uses ghosts instead of viable backup minor league hitters with great stats, costing valuable ABs for minor leaguers. In fact, this undermines my strategy of pinch hitting often in the minor leagues to spread experience around on the roster -- instead, ghosts get lots of playing time.

#3. Aside from anything else, I want the AI picking my PH just as much as I want the AI picking my shortstop. I generally want to fill my roster out with a 25th man who I chose for the PH role and then see him used constantly. It seems odd to me not to allow for that. (Hey, anyone who thinks the AI can do better is welcome to leave that slot blank and let the AI choose. I'm hoping all my online opponents do just that.)

[spitfire]

Letting the AI pick the pinch hitters is akin to a major league manager having one of his bench coaches select all PH's. I can see it now .......

Sparky: "Geez Alex, We're down a run. I gotta pinch hit for this guy!! You're in charge of pinch-hitting. Who you gonna send up there?"
Alex: "Well Sparky, I'm sending Plummer in there this time."
Sparky: "Plummer?!?! Are you nuts????? Well, it has nothing to do with me. I'm just the manager here."

That ain't baseball. It seems odd that a game that strives for so much detail and realism would refuse to give full control of this important aspect to the manager. May as well eliminate the bullpen depth charts so that the AI can pick the best pitcher to send in too .....

[BMD]

Sparky: "Geez Alex, We're down a run. I gotta pinch hit for this guy!! You're in charge of pinch-hitting. Who you gonna send up there? The best hitter for the situation?"
Alex: "No way! He is way too good defensively. Let's send up someone less likely to give us a tie or a lead so we can use the other guy as a defensive substitute in the 9th to preserve the one run deficit."

That doesn't sound right. How about this one?

Sparky: "Geez Alex, We're down a run. I gotta pinch hit for this guy!! You're in charge of pinch-hitting. Who you gonna send up there? The best hitter for the situation?"
Alex: "No way! Let's send up the old guy."
Sparky: "The one with the limp?"
Alex: "Yeah, that's the guy. Sure he gives us less of a chance to win, but he has 2,999 hits and I heard the grounds crew has fireworks set up. I like fireworks!"

Hmmm, that doesn't sound quite right either. Okay one more....

Sparky: "Geez Alex, We're down a run. I gotta pinch hit for this guy!! You're in charge of pinch-hitting. Who you gonna send up there? The best hitter for the situation?"
Alex: "No way! I'm playing a historical replay league. I'm playing as Pete Rose, and I bet on the other team!"

In that case, I guess we really would need the pinch hitter depth chart.

[WWBL Commissioner]

I think the biggest frustration in this is we had the feature, I used it all the time in my online league, then for no reason went away. The development team has spent time on things like wife and kids, owners etc but this thing effects actual game play. The back up catcher comment is exactly what happens to me to, he gets all the PH at bats regardless of what is happening in the game.