HOF work around till voting is patched

ra7c7er · 05-10-2015, 09:25 PM

Has anyone discovered a reasonable work around for the HOF issues when using multiple leagues. One that doesn't include hours of looking through all the retired players and manually putting them in the HOF.

ra7c7er · 05-11-2015, 10:08 AM

I played around with what little I could and found that turning off HOF voting will have the AI put some players in the HOF but it still only puts them in if they retired from the league in which they had HOF worthy stats.

Part of what I think it's doing is taking the stats in a league vs. total service time and not service time in a league. So you have a guy who is a sure fire HOF'er but he ends his career with 3 years in a lesser league. So the game takes his stats from the main league but adds 3 years of zero stats. Effectively watering down his career stats.

Perhaps a good change would be adding "service time in league" and only having HOF voting look at that. Which it should. The HOF doesn't look at minor league stats for voting or stats from another country so the game shouldn't.

Setting up service time like this would help.

Service time in league
Total service time (from all leagues)
Time as professional (total service time plus time in minors if no minors then this isn't needed)

Service time in league would never reset. If a player was traded or FA'd out of the league his time would stop and then restart from that point if he comes back.

Matt Arnold · 05-11-2015, 10:56 AM

It doesn't (or shouldn't) matter what league the player retired from. Now, where it could be going wrong is if a player put up great stats in one league, then played 3 years in another league before retiring, it will check by default from 5 years after he last played in the league in question. If he's not retired yet, then he may get bypassed from the ballot.

We do not add extra zeros from other leagues. If a guy played 12 years in one league, then 3 years in a separate league, when looking at the HOF, we only look at the stats from the league in question. We do check Major league service years, so if your leagues are set up so that major league service resets when players switch between the leagues, then yes, you may run into a case where a player changes leagues late.

If that is the case, set the min service time threshold to 0 - it's really only used as a pre-filter anyways. Players still need a mininum of criteria to show up on a ballot even if they have the service time, so the worst case is you may have a few extra players on your ballots.

Unfortunately at the moment the HOF is stuctured a little oddly - we have a global hall of fame, in that a player is either elected or not, but each league elects players separately, based only on their stats from the league in question. So if a player had good careers in two different leagues, they may get missed, but set correctly, if they played majorly in one league, and put up enough stats from that league, that should be enough for them to make it in.

ra7c7er · 05-11-2015, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

It doesn't (or shouldn't) matter what league the player retired from. Now, where it could be going wrong is if a player put up great stats in one league, then played 3 years in another league before retiring, it will check by default from 5 years after he last played in the league in question. If he's not retired yet, then he may get bypassed from the ballot.

We do not add extra zeros from other leagues. If a guy played 12 years in one league, then 3 years in a separate league, when looking at the HOF, we only look at the stats from the league in question. We do check Major league service years, so if your leagues are set up so that major league service resets when players switch between the leagues, then yes, you may run into a case where a player changes leagues late.

If that is the case, set the min service time threshold to 0 - it's really only used as a pre-filter anyways. Players still need a mininum of criteria to show up on a ballot even if they have the service time, so the worst case is you may have a few extra players on your ballots.

Unfortunately at the moment the HOF is stuctured a little oddly - we have a global hall of fame, in that a player is either elected or not, but each league elects players separately, based only on their stats from the league in question. So if a player had good careers in two different leagues, they may get missed, but set correctly, if they played majorly in one league, and put up enough stats from that league, that should be enough for them to make it in.

I'll try what you said. I have the service time to not reset. I'll move the service time to 0 anyway.

I think, the part I bolded is where the issue is arising. I have 5 leagues all with trading between leagues and a shared FA pool. So the players move around between the leagues more then "normal".

It sounds like raising the time before induction would be a good idea to since that will give the players more time to actually retire after switching leagues. Would that help?

Matt Arnold · 05-11-2015, 11:29 AM

Yeah, raising the time before induction and/or the time on ballots to be really long would both help catch guys, but if you have 5 leagues with fairly decent movement between them, there's going to be a lot of guys missed. The system is set up mostly for an MLB-type modern environment. Multiple leagues will always have troubles.

ra7c7er · 05-11-2015, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Yeah, raising the time before induction and/or the time on ballots to be really long would both help catch guys, but if you have 5 leagues with fairly decent movement between them, there's going to be a lot of guys missed. The system is set up mostly for an MLB-type modern environment. Multiple leagues will always have troubles.

Yeah I figured it will. OOTP 15 seemed to do a good job catching the shoe-in guys but it tended to have trouble catching the bubble guys so to speak. I'd be happy with 16 if I could get it to catch anyone. Obviously I have to play a bit after changing the settings. So hopefully that will get some people getting voted on. Because that's the secondary issue is that even when the game says hey vote on this guy nobody votes for them even when they are good enough.

Any chance you guys could work on the HOF some more for 17 or maybe even a patch for 16 down the road

please

DustinthePOWERHOUSE · 05-11-2015, 11:45 AM

Where is the service time resets button located? I'm starting my hopefully finally attempt at a fictional league tonight and I want to make sure I uncheck it.

ra7c7er · 05-11-2015, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustinthePOWERHOUSE

Where is the service time resets button located? I'm starting my hopefully finally attempt at a fictional league tonight and I want to make sure I uncheck it.

On the financials screen. Under Financials and Free Agency settings.

The Game · 05-11-2015, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ra7c7er

I'll try what you said. I have the service time to not reset. I'll move the service time to 0 anyway.

I think, the part I bolded is where the issue is arising. I have 5 leagues all with trading between leagues and a shared FA pool. So the players move around between the leagues more then "normal".

It sounds like raising the time before induction would be a good idea to since that will give the players more time to actually retire after switching leagues. Would that help?

In my EBL vs MLB league I have yet to see an active player in one league be elgible for the HOF in another league. Kevin France who is a clone of Eddie Collins has 3000 Hits 2000 in EBL 1000 in MLB and had yet to come up on the EBL ballot. He is now back in the EBL this season.

Trebro · 05-13-2015, 11:37 PM

As a data point:

I'm running 2 ML-level leagues. I did what Matt suggested and set service time to 0 and wait time to 10 years.

What I'm seeing is that while it will let people go onto either ballot (and sometimes, both), it's erasing the history if the player changes ballots. I.e. a player who gets, say 10% year 1, 12% year 2, 5% year 3 in league A loses that history if he's put on the ballot of League B. Year 4 of League A/Year 1 of League B, the player will only show the League B total.

So it theoretically allows you to catch everyone, but it's not going to be a complete history if you run a more-than-one-ML set-up. That's a bit of a bummer, and I wish it would be fixed. However, I am well aware that this is yet another case of "most people only play with one ML" so it's unlikely to happen anytime soon.

Trebro · 05-13-2015, 11:51 PM

Further data point: The Hall elected two people in one league who they never gave me a chance to vote on. Both were retired 10 years, both played ONLY in one league.

I am testing turning off HoF in one of the leagues, to see what, if anything, that changes. So yeah, based on this testing, looks like I can't use the Hall for any dual-ML setups I want to create, which is a real bummer.

Trebro · 05-14-2015, 12:17 AM

And yup, now all the players who should be in League A's potential pool for the Hall are in, if I shut down the Hall for the other League.

Matt Arnold · 05-14-2015, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trebro

Further data point: The Hall elected two people in one league who they never gave me a chance to vote on. Both were retired 10 years, both played ONLY in one league.

I am testing turning off HoF in one of the leagues, to see what, if anything, that changes. So yeah, based on this testing, looks like I can't use the Hall for any dual-ML setups I want to create, which is a real bummer.

What do you mean by "never gave you a chance to vote on"? When you go to vote, as it stands now, you can only vote for one "league" at a time's HOF. You can switch between the leagues on the voting page, but you can only vote for one of the two leagues Halls.

*edit to add: I might see what you mean. The voting page was caching players, so even switching leagues wasn't changing the actual list of eligible players. You'd have to leave the page and go back. This will be fixed.

Trebro · 05-14-2015, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

What do you mean by "never gave you a chance to vote on"? When you go to vote, as it stands now, you can only vote for one "league" at a time's HOF. You can switch between the leagues on the voting page, but you can only vote for one of the two leagues Halls.

*edit to add: I might see what you mean. The voting page was caching players, so even switching leagues wasn't changing the actual list of eligible players. You'd have to leave the page and go back. This will be fixed.

Yup, that was what happened. Thanks for looking into this, as it makes a big difference. Losing the voting history isn't a big deal to me, but losing the ability to vote if there are more than 1 ML leagues would mean probably switching to one-league only instead of 2. (And given that OOTP runs better with 2 ML-leagues of 24 each than 1 ML-league of 48, that's a big thing for me and my less-monopolized version of ML-level ball.)

05-10-2015, 09:25 PM	#1
ra7c7er All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,098	HOF work around till voting is patched Has anyone discovered a reasonable work around for the HOF issues when using multiple leagues. One that doesn't include hours of looking through all the retired players and manually putting them in the HOF.

05-11-2015, 11:45 AM	#7
DustinthePOWERHOUSE All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Boston Posts: 871	Where is the service time resets button located? I'm starting my hopefully finally attempt at a fictional league tonight and I want to make sure I uncheck it. __________________ Shootin' at the walls of heartache, BANG BANG, I am THE WARRIOR! "It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am"- Ali Wladimir Klitschko will DESTROY you.

05-13-2015, 11:37 PM	#10
Trebro All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 753	As a data point: I'm running 2 ML-level leagues. I did what Matt suggested and set service time to 0 and wait time to 10 years. What I'm seeing is that while it will let people go onto either ballot (and sometimes, both), it's erasing the history if the player changes ballots. I.e. a player who gets, say 10% year 1, 12% year 2, 5% year 3 in league A loses that history if he's put on the ballot of League B. Year 4 of League A/Year 1 of League B, the player will only show the League B total. So it theoretically allows you to catch everyone, but it's not going to be a complete history if you run a more-than-one-ML set-up. That's a bit of a bummer, and I wish it would be fixed. However, I am well aware that this is yet another case of "most people only play with one ML" so it's unlikely to happen anytime soon. __________________ 2020 2021

05-13-2015, 11:51 PM	#11
Trebro All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 753	Further data point: The Hall elected two people in one league who they never gave me a chance to vote on. Both were retired 10 years, both played ONLY in one league. I am testing turning off HoF in one of the leagues, to see what, if anything, that changes. So yeah, based on this testing, looks like I can't use the Hall for any dual-ML setups I want to create, which is a real bummer. __________________ 2020 2021

05-14-2015, 12:17 AM	#12
Trebro All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 753	And yup, now all the players who should be in League A's potential pool for the Hall are in, if I shut down the Hall for the other League. __________________ 2020 2021

05-11-2015, 10:08 AM	#2
ra7c7er All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,098	I played around with what little I could and found that turning off HOF voting will have the AI put some players in the HOF but it still only puts them in if they retired from the league in which they had HOF worthy stats. Part of what I think it's doing is taking the stats in a league vs. total service time and not service time in a league. So you have a guy who is a sure fire HOF'er but he ends his career with 3 years in a lesser league. So the game takes his stats from the main league but adds 3 years of zero stats. Effectively watering down his career stats. Perhaps a good change would be adding "service time in league" and only having HOF voting look at that. Which it should. The HOF doesn't look at minor league stats for voting or stats from another country so the game shouldn't. Setting up service time like this would help. Service time in league Total service time (from all leagues) Time as professional (total service time plus time in minors if no minors then this isn't needed) Service time in league would never reset. If a player was traded or FA'd out of the league his time would stop and then restart from that point if he comes back.

05-11-2015, 10:56 AM	#3
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,786	It doesn't (or shouldn't) matter what league the player retired from. Now, where it could be going wrong is if a player put up great stats in one league, then played 3 years in another league before retiring, it will check by default from 5 years after he last played in the league in question. If he's not retired yet, then he may get bypassed from the ballot. We do not add extra zeros from other leagues. If a guy played 12 years in one league, then 3 years in a separate league, when looking at the HOF, we only look at the stats from the league in question. We do check Major league service years, so if your leagues are set up so that major league service resets when players switch between the leagues, then yes, you may run into a case where a player changes leagues late. If that is the case, set the min service time threshold to 0 - it's really only used as a pre-filter anyways. Players still need a mininum of criteria to show up on a ballot even if they have the service time, so the worst case is you may have a few extra players on your ballots. Unfortunately at the moment the HOF is stuctured a little oddly - we have a global hall of fame, in that a player is either elected or not, but each league elects players separately, based only on their stats from the league in question. So if a player had good careers in two different leagues, they may get missed, but set correctly, if they played majorly in one league, and put up enough stats from that league, that should be enough for them to make it in.

05-11-2015, 11:29 AM	#5
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,786	Yeah, raising the time before induction and/or the time on ballots to be really long would both help catch guys, but if you have 5 leagues with fairly decent movement between them, there's going to be a lot of guys missed. The system is set up mostly for an MLB-type modern environment. Multiple leagues will always have troubles.