Pitching skills vs. Individual pitches

Thunder · 08-16-2015, 08:24 AM

How much do you value each?

Are these guys a wash, or would you value one over the other?

Jones
Stuff: 6, Movement: 6: Control: 6
Three pitches, FB: 5, Curve: 5, Change: 5

Smith
Skills: 5/5/5
Pitches: 6/6/6

That's a 2-8 scale and presume scouting is 100%.

beorn · 08-16-2015, 10:07 AM

Pitch ratings are only a component of the stuff rating. So, assuming your scout has the numbers right, a pitcher with a 6 rating in stuff is better than a pitcher with 5 rating in stuff, regardless of the pitch ratings.

(A different issue, but keep in mind is that if the pitcher only has two good pitches, his stuff rating as a starter will suffer seriously.)

Thunder · 08-16-2015, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beorn

Pitch ratings are only a component of the stuff rating.

Hmmm, so they are. Thanks. I've probably been over-valuing the repertoire for a while now.

ThePretender · 08-16-2015, 11:36 AM

It's important to look at individual pitches with regards to whether a guy is better off as a SP or RP. If a guy has 3 pitches and the third is below, say, 40, then he's likely a RP. Beyond that, you can make pretty good guesses as to what a pitcher's stuff is as a RP/SP depending on the quality of each pitch, and how many pitches a guy has.

For ex, if a SP has 70 stuff (1-100), and 6 pitches which are 60-70, odds are he's not gaining much as a MR, and may actually have lower stuff as a RP. But if he has, say two 80 pitches and a 50 pitch, that SP with 70 stuff probably has between 80-85 stuff as a MR.

So pitch ratings and stuff ratings go hand in hand, but it's important to look at each to determine whether a player is more likely to succeed as a RP/SP, or where they can provide more value.

RchW · 08-16-2015, 01:08 PM

There are rare 2-pitch SP. In this thread we suggested that exceptional pitches and not the presence of a poor 3rd pitch made the difference.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...g-pitcher.html

jpeters1734 · 08-16-2015, 01:39 PM

do type of pitches factor into if he's be a good reliever or starter? for example, if i had a guy with an elite knuckleball and an ok fastball, would he be a decent starter? or does he need that 3rd pitch regardless?

IsaacR · 08-16-2015, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

do type of pitches factor into if he's be a good reliever or starter? for example, if i had a guy with an elite knuckleball and an ok fastball, would he be a decent starter? or does he need that 3rd pitch regardless?

Knuckleballers are almost entirely starters. They're the exception the rule.

ThePretender · 08-16-2015, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

There are rare 2-pitch SP. In this thread we suggested that exceptional pitches and not the presence of a poor 3rd pitch made the difference.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...g-pitcher.html

If I ever find a pitcher like that I'll have to test it out.

jpeters1734 · 08-16-2015, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsaacR

Knuckleballers are almost entirely starters. They're the exception the rule.

that's what I thought. are there any other pitches like that? Also is there anything to the combinations of pitches?

08-16-2015, 08:24 AM	#1
Thunder Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 3,865	Pitching skills vs. Individual pitches How much do you value each? Are these guys a wash, or would you value one over the other? Jones Stuff: 6, Movement: 6: Control: 6 Three pitches, FB: 5, Curve: 5, Change: 5 Smith Skills: 5/5/5 Pitches: 6/6/6 That's a 2-8 scale and presume scouting is 100%. __________________ I like Stats Mostly

08-16-2015, 10:07 AM	#2
beorn All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: near Rochester, NY Posts: 1,269	Pitch ratings are only a component of the stuff rating. So, assuming your scout has the numbers right, a pitcher with a 6 rating in stuff is better than a pitcher with 5 rating in stuff, regardless of the pitch ratings. (A different issue, but keep in mind is that if the pitcher only has two good pitches, his stuff rating as a starter will suffer seriously.) __________________ Commish of Dog Days Baseball Commish Pennant Chase Baseball League (PCBL) Commish and Blue Jays GM Extra Innings Baseball

08-16-2015, 01:08 PM	#5
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	There are rare 2-pitch SP. In this thread we suggested that exceptional pitches and not the presence of a poor 3rd pitch made the difference. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...g-pitcher.html __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

08-16-2015, 01:39 PM	#6
jpeters1734 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Juust a bit outside... Posts: 6,211	do type of pitches factor into if he's be a good reliever or starter? for example, if i had a guy with an elite knuckleball and an ok fastball, would he be a decent starter? or does he need that 3rd pitch regardless? __________________ "Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!! Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21 Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet

08-16-2015, 11:36 AM	#4
ThePretender All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,323	It's important to look at individual pitches with regards to whether a guy is better off as a SP or RP. If a guy has 3 pitches and the third is below, say, 40, then he's likely a RP. Beyond that, you can make pretty good guesses as to what a pitcher's stuff is as a RP/SP depending on the quality of each pitch, and how many pitches a guy has. For ex, if a SP has 70 stuff (1-100), and 6 pitches which are 60-70, odds are he's not gaining much as a MR, and may actually have lower stuff as a RP. But if he has, say two 80 pitches and a 50 pitch, that SP with 70 stuff probably has between 80-85 stuff as a MR. So pitch ratings and stuff ratings go hand in hand, but it's important to look at each to determine whether a player is more likely to succeed as a RP/SP, or where they can provide more value.