Never Saw This Before... Even in Real Life Games

Eugene Church · 10-03-2015, 11:05 PM

I've been listening to and watching baseball games since 1950 and never heard or saw this happen.

In my State Line League Dynasty report a pitcher pinched hit for a pitcher in the last of the ninth... the team was losing 3-2 at the time... they ended up winning the game 4-3 and the pinchhitting pitcher was credited with the victory though he didn't throw a pitch.

Was this scored correctly?

It seems to be the right way to do it... the pitcher the pinchhitting pitcher hit for was no longer the pitcher of record, so you have to give the win to the pitcher of record, who was the pinchhitter, though he didn't ever go to the mound.

Here the game writeup:

DECATUR RALLIES PAST TRAVS 4-3 IN FIRST GAME
Behind 3-1 going into the bottom of the eighth frame in the first game of the doubleheader, Decatur came alive and rallied past Russellville to capture a 4-3 triumph and snapped a four-game losing streak... the Locos got one score in the eighth on a triple by RF Eddy Grimsley (.314) and a single by RF Chick Sparkman (.231) and finished off the Travelers with two more in the last of the ninth on RBIs by SS Red Caudill (.234) and CF Jimmy Hookfin (.245)... in a strange happening, reliever Johnny Meadows (1-2/6.56), who pinched hit for pitcher Cullen Rich in the ninth, got credit for the win, though he didn't throw a pitch... each club collected 10 hits with four Locos getting two apiece: Hookfin, Grimsley, 3B Gator Wickman (.327) and Caudill... Russellville was led by RF Gus Tyndall (.220), LF Smiley Bailyn (.152) and C Jarrod Van (.208) all with a pair of base hits... neither starter figured in the decision... but both were effective... Del Nathan (0-0/3.70) went seven innings for Decatur, gave up two runs and seven hits, while Emil Gunn (2-3/2.92) tossed seven and two-thirds innings for Russellville, permitted two runs on seven hits with six Ks and no walks... both clubs have won 5 games and lost 8 so far this season.

NCBeachBum · 10-03-2015, 11:22 PM

I think it's wrong and that in this case it would go to the pitcher who was pulled, because he was last to have thrown a pitch. The pinch-hitting pitcher had not yet thrown a pitch.

If being pinch-hit for removed you as the pitcher of record before another pitcher came in in the next half-inning, then you'd lose your shot by being pinch-hit for by a position player, which clearly isn't the case. Until the other guy threw a pitch, he wasn't a pitcher, he was a pinch-hitter.

I think.

HerbD · 10-03-2015, 11:22 PM

I'm pretty sure that the last guy to throw a pitch is still the pitcher of record. Otherwise the PH, even if it was a position player, would get the win in this situation.

Eugene Church · 10-03-2015, 11:37 PM

I think you guys are correct... OOTP may not score it correctly.

Still it's an interesting question to me.

I guess I never saw it happen because a position player almost always hits for a pitcher.

In my Dynasty League, I only have three bench players... a spare catcher, infielder and outfielder... plus whatever pitchers that I haven't used in the game.

I only have 16 players on each team... 5 pitchers and 11 position players.

Eugene Church · 10-03-2015, 11:45 PM

I found this online:

Starting Pitcher

If the pitcher was the starter, he can get credit for the win if the following conditions are met:

1. He pitches at least 5 innings (*). (This is why often when pitchers start to struggle in the 5th, their managers are reluctant to pull them if they are winning and try to squeeze another out or two out of them. Managerial decisions should never be based on impact to a player’s stats, but I’ll rant about that later – probably moreso in relation to the save rule).

2. His team assumes the lead while he is in the game, or during the inning on offense in which he is removed from the game. (e.g., he pitches 6 innings with the score tied, and his team scores in the top of the 7th, and a new pitcher comes in for the bottom of the 7th).

3. His team never relinquishes the lead.

4. And finally, his team wins the game. (Well, you knew that already)

joefromchicago · 10-04-2015, 12:40 AM

It's not scored correctly, and this has been a longstanding problem. As soon as a pitcher leaves the game, the AI immediately replaces him with a reliever. I've seen the situation where a pitcher is injured in the last at-bat in the top of the ninth inning and his team then wins the game in the bottom of the ninth, in which case the reliever (who hasn't stepped foot on the field) is credited with the victory. I've never seen the situation you describe, where a pitcher pinch-hits for a pitcher in the bottom of the final inning and the home team wins the game, but I'm sure the same glitch is responsible for assigning the victory to the pinch-hitting pitcher.

sc_superstar · 10-04-2015, 01:00 AM

If the pitcher was instered into the game as a pitcher and not as a pinch hitter even while baatting, OOTP incorrectly assumes he is the pitcher of record when the tie is broken

10-03-2015, 11:05 PM	#1
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 35,986	Never Saw This Before... Even in Real Life Games I've been listening to and watching baseball games since 1950 and never heard or saw this happen. In my State Line League Dynasty report a pitcher pinched hit for a pitcher in the last of the ninth... the team was losing 3-2 at the time... they ended up winning the game 4-3 and the pinchhitting pitcher was credited with the victory though he didn't throw a pitch. Was this scored correctly? It seems to be the right way to do it... the pitcher the pinchhitting pitcher hit for was no longer the pitcher of record, so you have to give the win to the pitcher of record, who was the pinchhitter, though he didn't ever go to the mound. Here the game writeup: DECATUR RALLIES PAST TRAVS 4-3 IN FIRST GAME Behind 3-1 going into the bottom of the eighth frame in the first game of the doubleheader, Decatur came alive and rallied past Russellville to capture a 4-3 triumph and snapped a four-game losing streak... the Locos got one score in the eighth on a triple by RF Eddy Grimsley (.314) and a single by RF Chick Sparkman (.231) and finished off the Travelers with two more in the last of the ninth on RBIs by SS Red Caudill (.234) and CF Jimmy Hookfin (.245)... in a strange happening, reliever Johnny Meadows (1-2/6.56), who pinched hit for pitcher Cullen Rich in the ninth, got credit for the win, though he didn't throw a pitch... each club collected 10 hits with four Locos getting two apiece: Hookfin, Grimsley, 3B Gator Wickman (.327) and Caudill... Russellville was led by RF Gus Tyndall (.220), LF Smiley Bailyn (.152) and C Jarrod Van (.208) all with a pair of base hits... neither starter figured in the decision... but both were effective... Del Nathan (0-0/3.70) went seven innings for Decatur, gave up two runs and seven hits, while Emil Gunn (2-3/2.92) tossed seven and two-thirds innings for Russellville, permitted two runs on seven hits with six Ks and no walks... both clubs have won 5 games and lost 8 so far this season.

10-03-2015, 11:22 PM	#2
NCBeachBum All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Topsail Island, NC, USA Posts: 1,049	I think it's wrong and that in this case it would go to the pitcher who was pulled, because he was last to have thrown a pitch. The pinch-hitting pitcher had not yet thrown a pitch. If being pinch-hit for removed you as the pitcher of record before another pitcher came in in the next half-inning, then you'd lose your shot by being pinch-hit for by a position player, which clearly isn't the case. Until the other guy threw a pitch, he wasn't a pitcher, he was a pinch-hitter. I think. __________________ And ain't that a shame, shame, shame Shame, shame, the way you do Oh, it's a shame, shame, shame Shame, shame on you

10-03-2015, 11:22 PM	#3
HerbD All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Indiana Posts: 972	I'm pretty sure that the last guy to throw a pitch is still the pitcher of record. Otherwise the PH, even if it was a position player, would get the win in this situation. __________________

10-04-2015, 12:40 AM	#6
joefromchicago Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,711	It's not scored correctly, and this has been a longstanding problem. As soon as a pitcher leaves the game, the AI immediately replaces him with a reliever. I've seen the situation where a pitcher is injured in the last at-bat in the top of the ninth inning and his team then wins the game in the bottom of the ninth, in which case the reliever (who hasn't stepped foot on the field) is credited with the victory. I've never seen the situation you describe, where a pitcher pinch-hits for a pitcher in the bottom of the final inning and the home team wins the game, but I'm sure the same glitch is responsible for assigning the victory to the pinch-hitting pitcher. __________________ American-Ethnic (and Canadian) Namesets Historical Minor League Schedules 1870s City/Team Nickname Randomizers "It's Usually Sunny in Philadelphia" weather mod Negro League Schedules

10-03-2015, 11:37 PM	#4
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 35,986	I think you guys are correct... OOTP may not score it correctly. Still it's an interesting question to me. I guess I never saw it happen because a position player almost always hits for a pitcher. In my Dynasty League, I only have three bench players... a spare catcher, infielder and outfielder... plus whatever pitchers that I haven't used in the game. I only have 16 players on each team... 5 pitchers and 11 position players.

10-03-2015, 11:45 PM	#5
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 35,986	I found this online: Starting Pitcher If the pitcher was the starter, he can get credit for the win if the following conditions are met: 1. He pitches at least 5 innings (*). (This is why often when pitchers start to struggle in the 5th, their managers are reluctant to pull them if they are winning and try to squeeze another out or two out of them. Managerial decisions should never be based on impact to a player’s stats, but I’ll rant about that later – probably moreso in relation to the save rule). 2. His team assumes the lead while he is in the game, or during the inning on offense in which he is removed from the game. (e.g., he pitches 6 innings with the score tied, and his team scores in the top of the 7th, and a new pitcher comes in for the bottom of the 7th). 3. His team never relinquishes the lead. 4. And finally, his team wins the game. (Well, you knew that already)

10-04-2015, 01:00 AM	#7
sc_superstar Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 407	If the pitcher was instered into the game as a pitcher and not as a pinch hitter even while baatting, OOTP incorrectly assumes he is the pitcher of record when the tie is broken