Are minor leaguers hanging onto a roster spot too long?

[jpeters1734]

I'm noticing that most rookie teams have several players that are in their 30's and have not played in years, but are still in rookie ball. Teams are not cutting them the way they should and the players are not retiring when they should.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

I'm noticing that most rookie teams have several players that are in their 30's and have not played in years, but are still in rookie ball. Teams are not cutting them the way they should and the players are not retiring when they should.

Set age limits for your minor leagues. The limit for my rookie leagues is 20. The AI will get rid of players who are too old for a given level but not good enough to promote.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

Set age limits for your minor leagues. The limit for my rookie leagues is 20. The AI will get rid of players who are too old for a given level but not good enough to promote.

i tried that but they seem to keep players down that should be promoted instead

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

i tried that but they seem to keep players down that should be promoted instead

Setting age limits is the best solution regardless. I keep players at lower levels, even if the arrow says they should be promoted, because there's a player one step above in the way or they aren't putting up stats that can justify a promotion.

Setting age limits will force the AI to cut players, and you won't have guys who should have long since been sent packing sticking around the minors resulting in huge competitive imbalances in leagues.

There will always be players at a level higher than they should be, or lower, but with age limits players of pretty much equal experience and age will be at the same levels of minors.

[jpeters1734]

but the problem seems to be the AI not cutting the players

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

but the problem seems to be the AI not cutting the players

Set age and roster size limits and watch players head out the door in droves.

[Hammercraft]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

Set age and roster size limits and watch players head out the door in droves.

This is a good idea for managing the AI.

For my own minor leagues I just do an annual purge of everyone with low Intelligence and Work Ethic. If they have any potential I try to trade them, but otherwise there's no place for them in my minors. I'll keep older guys around if they're a good influence on the 3-4 guys I need to develop, everyone else is just there to help them grow.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

Set age and roster size limits and watch players head out the door in droves.

yeah along with legitimate prospects the AI has no business releasing.

I've skimmed through countless seasons using the same settings and I haven't seen on a consistent bases the number of old guys hanging around like i do now.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by Hammercraft

For my own minor leagues I just do an annual purge of everyone with low Intelligence and Work Ethic. If they have any potential I try to trade them, but otherwise there's no place for them in my minors. I'll keep older guys around if they're a good influence on the 3-4 guys I need to develop, everyone else is just there to help them grow.

If guys with those attributes are developing and putting up the numbers to justify promotions, I keep them. I get rid of smart, hard workers every year who just don't have the talent and results.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

yeah along with legitimate prospects the AI has no business releasing.

Not so fast, my fellow fan. I release guys every year who I didn't think were worth keeping around that get picked up by other teams and eventually make it to the majors. I've signed guys who the AI teams have cut, thinking I found a diamond in the rough, only to find that the AI was right along. Sometimes I find guys that end up being my best prospects.

That happens in real life too. Organizations give up on guys, other teams sign them, some pan out and others don't. You make mistakes in cutting some guys, smart decisions with others, and you have both good and bad results with the free agent guys you sign. It's all part of the challenge of finding guys who might contribute at the major league level one day.

[bwburke94]

Why can't you just enable minor league free agency? That should solve the problem.

[Hammercraft]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

That happens in real life too. Organizations give up on guys, other teams sign them, some pan out and others don't. You make mistakes in cutting some guys, smart decisions with others, and you have both good and bad results with the free agent guys you sign. It's all part of the challenge of finding guys who might contribute at the major league level one day.

Doug Melvin was the king of the trash heap. Not that he always found gems that other teams threw away (Axford) but he was always digging through the refuse for something of value.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

Not so fast, my fellow fan. I release guys every year who I didn't think were worth keeping around that get picked up by other teams and eventually make it to the majors. I've signed guys who the AI teams have cut, thinking I found a diamond in the rough, only to find that the AI was right along. Sometimes I find guys that end up being my best prospects.

That happens in real life too. Organizations give up on guys, other teams sign them, some pan out and others don't. You make mistakes in cutting some guys, smart decisions with others, and you have both good and bad results with the free agent guys you sign. It's all part of the challenge of finding guys who might contribute at the major league level one day.

I'm talking about legitimate top talent. not some hidden gem. This shouldn't be a surprise as this is a long standing issue with age and roster limits in the minors.

Originally Posted by bwburke94

Why can't you just enable minor league free agency? That should solve the problem.

I do have MiL FA on

[NoOne]

not a solution but...

if you have the AI set to play potential over ability, it should prevent lineup/staff related issues related to this concern.

although, does this setting only affect setting lineups/staff or does it also influence AI MiL decisions? i don't believe the manual states this specifically from my memory. it may or may not alleviate all possible issues that might arise from "old" players clogging the system.

heh, i just called a 21 year old, old. funny stuff

[Number4]

"Did you know? In 2001, David Ortiz was released by the Minnesota Twins."

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

I'm talking about legitimate top talent. not some hidden gem.

That's what I'm talking about, too. What looks like "legitimate top talent" to you may not look that way to the team that released him. And how many of these guys have you signed that turned out to be All Star players?

I've signed "top talent" from the free agent pool and these guys never get past AA or were bench players.

[BIG17EASY]

I have not played 17 yet, but I have used roster limits in the last three versions and have not had an issue with AI-controlled teams releasing elite prospects since the early versions of 15. When Markus & Co. addressed the issue back then, it straightened out for me and a lot of others. So roster limits do work.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by Number4

"Did you know? In 2001, David Ortiz was released by the Minnesota Twins."

Ortiz was not offered arbitration by a low budget small market team. There is a difference.

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

That's what I'm talking about, too. What looks like "legitimate top talent" to you may not look that way to the team that released him. And how many of these guys have you signed that turned out to be All Star players?

I've signed "top talent" from the free agent pool and these guys never get past AA or were bench players.

When I say top talent, I mean guys drafted in the first round being released after a season or two. That doesn't happen in real life

Just for shiggles, I'm going to copy the league and run a few seasons with limits to give an example

[Elf Marine]

I have age limits for the different levels. 30 is what I use for AAA. 26 for AA. 24 for A. On my own teams if I am the GM then I try to trade them. If nobody wants them I cut them (or if folks want them but only in exchange for people too old). I don't really care what the other teams do. They want to have a 34 year old in A it helps me. They can sign my rejects.

[jpeters1734]

Here's two players that were released after imposing age and roster limits