Ability vs tools

GoPedro99 · 03-30-2016, 06:41 PM

when I comes to a scout. What exactly is the difference between favorin ability and favoring tools

monkeystyxx · 03-30-2016, 07:10 PM

Favour ability = the 'Moneyball' method, looking for talent based on their actual production and ability now, projecting on from there how good they can become in the future.

Favour tools = the 'old school' method, looking at a guy's basic 'tools', the building blocks on which a baseball player is built. Their strength, speed, athleticism etc, projecting how they will turn into ability later on. They're not just looking for 'good' players, they're looking for guys who have what it takes to be huge. But in the process they'll miss perfectly good talent because they don't have the traditional 'tools'.

Generally speaking, Ability guys will find more 'average' talent, and a few really good guys. Whereas Tools guys will find more 'meh' players that never develop like they're expected to, but also the occasional megastar that ability guys wouldn't have found.

If you've got an athletic, strong guy who can't hit for toffee in college, ability guys won't be interested. But Tools guys will say "hang on a minute, give him a few years to develop and he could be great" - maybe he will, maybe he won't, that's down to destiny. Likewise, the Jose Altuve's of the world would be completely ignored by Tools guys, even though they're hitting over .300, because they don't 'look' like stars. Most Altuve's will go on to be mediocre AAA depth players, but a few of them will turn in to a big league star.

Basically, Ability guys find players with high floors but can't be too sure about their ceilings. Tools guys find guys with generally low floors, and huge ceilings. But not all of them will ever reach that ceiling.

Doc_Brown · 03-30-2016, 07:24 PM

Excellent post.

GoPedro99 · 03-30-2016, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeystyxx

Favour ability = the 'Moneyball' method, looking for talent based on their actual production and ability now, projecting on from there how good they can become in the future.

Favour tools = the 'old school' method, looking at a guy's basic 'tools', the building blocks on which a baseball player is built. Their strength, speed, athleticism etc, projecting how they will turn into ability later on. They're not just looking for 'good' players, they're looking for guys who have what it takes to be huge. But in the process they'll miss perfectly good talent because they don't have the traditional 'tools'.

Generally speaking, Ability guys will find more 'average' talent, and a few really good guys. Whereas Tools guys will find more 'meh' players that never develop like they're expected to, but also the occasional megastar that ability guys wouldn't have found.

If you've got an athletic, strong guy who can't hit for toffee in college, ability guys won't be interested. But Tools guys will say "hang on a minute, give him a few years to develop and he could be great" - maybe he will, maybe he won't, that's down to destiny. Likewise, the Jose Altuve's of the world would be completely ignored by Tools guys, even though they're hitting over .300, because they don't 'look' like stars. Most Altuve's will go on to be mediocre AAA depth players, but a few of them will turn in to a big league star.

Basically, Ability guys find players with high floors but can't be too sure about their ceilings. Tools guys find guys with generally low floors, and huge ceilings. But not all of them will ever reach that ceiling.

Thank you very much. This is extremely helpful. Just our of curiosity, which do you think is better in the game

injury log · 03-30-2016, 09:53 PM

In OOTP terms, the Tools scout just focuses on a prospect's Potential ratings. The ability scout pays some attention to the guy's current ratings. The younger the player, the bigger the (possible) difference between the two scouts. If an 18 year old is already polished, and would succeed in the low minors right away, the Ability scout will like him. The Tools scout will also like him if he has good Potentials. On the other hand, if you have an 18 year old who is dead raw and would suck in Rookie ball, the Ability scout will hate him. The Tools scout might still like him if his Potential ratings are high.

This all makes sense, because in OOTP, guys who are really raw (very bad current ratings) are far riskier than polished guys with the same Potentials. So your Tools scout will like a lot of guys who are high-risk, high-reward -- a lot of them will flame out, but some will be stars. The Ability scout will like lower risk players, but will miss out on identifying some of the high-risk sky-high upside types.

It's probably best to choose your scout based on your attitude to risk. If you want to take a high-risk approach to prospects, pick a Tools scout. But a lot of the prospects he finds exciting will turn into junk later on. If you want a safer approach (but less exciting-looking draft pools), take the Ability scout.

EZB · 07-22-2020, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

In OOTP terms, the Tools scout just focuses on a prospect's Potential ratings. The ability scout pays some attention to the guy's current ratings. The younger the player, the bigger the (possible) difference between the two scouts. If an 18 year old is already polished, and would succeed in the low minors right away, the Ability scout will like him. The Tools scout will also like him if he has good Potentials. On the other hand, if you have an 18 year old who is dead raw and would suck in Rookie ball, the Ability scout will hate him. The Tools scout might still like him if his Potential ratings are high.

This all makes sense, because in OOTP, guys who are really raw (very bad current ratings) are far riskier than polished guys with the same Potentials. So your Tools scout will like a lot of guys who are high-risk, high-reward -- a lot of them will flame out, but some will be stars. The Ability scout will like lower risk players, but will miss out on identifying some of the high-risk sky-high upside types.

It's probably best to choose your scout based on your attitude to risk. If you want to take a high-risk approach to prospects, pick a Tools scout. But a lot of the prospects he finds exciting will turn into junk later on. If you want a safer approach (but less exciting-looking draft pools), take the Ability scout.

I feel like this theory falls apart when you unpack it. You are saying that the tools scout will find the players with high potentials, but low current values. That makes sense, but what does the tools scout find that the ability scout does not? I think it's more likely that the tools scout sees potential in a lot of players, but many of them don't really have it. The ability scout sees potential in very few players. If 50 players have good potential out of 100, maybe the tools scout says 70 players have great potential, but 20 of them won't really. The ability scout might see only 30 players with potential, and all 30 are successful, but he misses 20 more that high high potential.

Now, the question is what happens with current ratings with each scout?

03-30-2016, 06:41 PM	#1
GoPedro99 All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 860	Ability vs tools when I comes to a scout. What exactly is the difference between favorin ability and favoring tools

03-30-2016, 07:10 PM	#2
monkeystyxx Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 293	Favour ability = the 'Moneyball' method, looking for talent based on their actual production and ability now, projecting on from there how good they can become in the future. Favour tools = the 'old school' method, looking at a guy's basic 'tools', the building blocks on which a baseball player is built. Their strength, speed, athleticism etc, projecting how they will turn into ability later on. They're not just looking for 'good' players, they're looking for guys who have what it takes to be huge. But in the process they'll miss perfectly good talent because they don't have the traditional 'tools'. Generally speaking, Ability guys will find more 'average' talent, and a few really good guys. Whereas Tools guys will find more 'meh' players that never develop like they're expected to, but also the occasional megastar that ability guys wouldn't have found. If you've got an athletic, strong guy who can't hit for toffee in college, ability guys won't be interested. But Tools guys will say "hang on a minute, give him a few years to develop and he could be great" - maybe he will, maybe he won't, that's down to destiny. Likewise, the Jose Altuve's of the world would be completely ignored by Tools guys, even though they're hitting over .300, because they don't 'look' like stars. Most Altuve's will go on to be mediocre AAA depth players, but a few of them will turn in to a big league star. Basically, Ability guys find players with high floors but can't be too sure about their ceilings. Tools guys find guys with generally low floors, and huge ceilings. But not all of them will ever reach that ceiling. Last edited by monkeystyxx; 03-30-2016 at 07:15 PM.

03-30-2016, 07:24 PM	#3
Doc_Brown All Star Starter Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,326	Excellent post.

03-30-2016, 09:53 PM	#5
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	In OOTP terms, the Tools scout just focuses on a prospect's Potential ratings. The ability scout pays some attention to the guy's current ratings. The younger the player, the bigger the (possible) difference between the two scouts. If an 18 year old is already polished, and would succeed in the low minors right away, the Ability scout will like him. The Tools scout will also like him if he has good Potentials. On the other hand, if you have an 18 year old who is dead raw and would suck in Rookie ball, the Ability scout will hate him. The Tools scout might still like him if his Potential ratings are high. This all makes sense, because in OOTP, guys who are really raw (very bad current ratings) are far riskier than polished guys with the same Potentials. So your Tools scout will like a lot of guys who are high-risk, high-reward -- a lot of them will flame out, but some will be stars. The Ability scout will like lower risk players, but will miss out on identifying some of the high-risk sky-high upside types. It's probably best to choose your scout based on your attitude to risk. If you want to take a high-risk approach to prospects, pick a Tools scout. But a lot of the prospects he finds exciting will turn into junk later on. If you want a safer approach (but less exciting-looking draft pools), take the Ability scout.