Do pitchers have a hidden factor determining how they will do as starters or relievers?

[Qeltar]

I have a top notch RP who was an SP earlier in his career, has great stats, 4 good pitches and marginal stamina (35).

But I'm desperate for SPs. However, whenever I try to put him in the rotation, he does much worse than he does in relief. So I am wondering if I'm missing something or if it's just the way the guy is and maybe there's some sort of factor that controls success in transitioning to the rotation.

I also noticed that his actual ratings change if I set his position to "SP" instead of "RP" and I don't understand why that is. Will the lower numbers for stuff, movement and control affect his results, or is this just different figures from my scout about how well he sees the guy in the different role?

Thanks.

PS Is making this conversion more likely to be successful during spring training? I have heard that it is easier to get position players to new positions in ST.

[Bluenoser]

Check the last para on "Pitching Roles" here - http://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com/...ions_and_roles

Topic also discusses learning new roles for position players.

[Qeltar]

Thanks. It doesn't mention learning new pitches though. From what I've read this seems to be mostly random.

It says position players learn new positions more easily during ST. I am wondering if this also applies to changing pitcher positions.

Also if changing position doesn't change ability I wonder why the numbers for their abilities change.. or maybe I am misunderstanding what these numbers mean (I thought they directly controlled performance, so I am not sure why the guy would for example give up more home runs simply by virtue of being made a starter from a reliever.)

[Timofmars]

Originally Posted by Qeltar

Also if changing position doesn't change ability I wonder why the numbers for their abilities change.. or maybe I am misunderstanding what these numbers mean (I thought they directly controlled performance, so I am not sure why the guy would for example give up more home runs simply by virtue of being made a starter from a reliever.)

I play OOTP 18, not 19, so I don't know if it is changed there. But in 18, only the Stuff rating is reduced when a pitcher is used as a starter in a game, though he will be able to pitch more pitches before becoming tired compared to if he were used as a reliever.

The difference in Stuff is due to a bonus relievers get based on how good their top 2 pitches are compared to the others, based on the idea that they don't need to use their other pitches to mix things up since they will only see each batter once, usually. Starting pitchers have to mix in other weaker pitches so the batters will have difficulty figuring out the pitcher after seeing him multiple times in an outing.

For SPs that have a variety of well balanced pitches, they won't have much of any penalty, and in fact I've seen some where they showed higher stuff when set as a SP.

[Matt Arnold]

Yeah, essentially RP ratings are focused more on their top couple pitches, whereas SP ratings are more based on depth of pitches. So if your guy is a junkballer who throws 4 mediocre pitches, he might be rated higher as a starter than a reliever.

Otherwise, ratings may be different as by default the ratings are relative, so if relievers are rated higher than starters (which they generally should be), then the ratings will be a little lower as a starter.

And overall, if the guy is not doing well as a starter, there's a few reasons for that. One might simply be sample size - maybe he just had a couple bad starts. Another is that starters will just naturally have worse numbers - as mentioned, they throw softer, to save energy, so won't be quite as effective when they pitch. And batters get a bonus against them the 2nd/3rd/4th time through the order, so the deeper he goes, he'll probably get rocked at some point. And if the guy has a low/marginal stamina, it might be that he's doing well early, but then tires out and gets bombed a 3rd time through the lineup.

[Qeltar]

Thanks for the explanation about the pitch mix, that makes sense.

Well here's his current ratings as an RP, then I'll change it and see what it is.

S/M/C: 80/75, 60/60, 55/55.
Fastball: 70/70.
Cutter: 70/70.
Slider: 75/75.
Splitter: 70/70.

(I just noticed all of these are pretty hard, nothing really off-speed except the splitter I guess, maybe that's a factor.)

Okay changing to SP.... You're right, all the changed was Stuff, which dropped from 80/75 to 70/70.

At least on paper this guy should be a top flight SP. Maybe I just need to give it some time?

Thanks.

PS Thanks Matt. Can you answer about the spring training aspect?

Also, is there any systematic way to "stretch" an RP as occurs IRL by having him throw more innings as an SP? Or am I just getting him shellacked for no reason?

[Qeltar]

Okay as soon as I put him in a game his control dropped from 55 to 50. I don't know why.

(EDIT: It may have been 50/55 originally and I just misread it.)

[Timofmars]

Originally Posted by Qeltar

Okay as soon as I put him in a game his control dropped from 55 to 50. I don't know why.

(EDIT: It may have been 50/55 originally and I just misread it.)

Also check where you're getting the scout reports from. It might possibly be your scout's rating in one, and the OSA rating in another.

[Qeltar]

So could the low stamina be holding him back in terms of overall rating as a starter? Because everything else is amazing and it still says he's 3*.

I guess the overall has no real purpose anyway, aside from driving me nuts.