Nikola Jokic - Top 5 of All Time?

[dsvitak]

I couldn't believe it when I read that he now has the most assists of ALL TIME as a center.

This year, 30-12-11, averaging a triple double, and leading the league in assists AND rebounds per game.

The dude is only 30.

Edit to add...he's shooting 44% from downtown this year, at 5 attempts per game, and 85% from the line.

[Cobra Mgr]

I brought this up maybe 2 years ago. If he had a 2nd ring, I would have him below Wilt and Kareem only @ center. He's the equal of Hakeem, Shaq, Moses & the Admiral. He doesn't have the defensive ability those guys have. And he is not going up nightly against any peers like the above. But he is superior offensively. What also has to be factored is he has yet to play w/another All-Star. The single ring is keeping him from seriously contending for #3 on my list.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I brought this up maybe 2 years ago. If he had a 2nd ring, I would have him below Wilt and Kareem only @ center. He's the equal of Hakeem, Shaq, Moses & the Admiral. He doesn't have the defensive ability those guys have. And he is not going up nightly against any peers like the above. But he is superior offensively. What also has to be factored is he has yet to play w/another All-Star. The single ring is keeping him from seriously contending for #3 on my list.

Basketball reference dot com has his offensive rating, ORtg, at 141, the highest in the league.

His defensive rating, DRtg, historically has been better than average, at 105 to 110. This year, it is at 113, the highest of his career. Last year was 111. Career rating is currently 108 and climbing.

Perhaps his defense is better than his reputation. The numbers certainly bear this out. 113 is pretty good.

Edit to add...Bam's defensive rating the last two years is lower than Jokers...and he was top ten defensive player of the year six years in a row.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

Basketball reference dot com has his offensive rating, ORtg, at 141, the highest in the league.

His defensive rating, DRtg, historically has been better than average, at 105 to 110. This year, it is at 113, the highest of his career. Last year was 111. Career rating is currently 108 and climbing.

Perhaps his defense is better than his reputation. The numbers certainly bear this out. 113 is pretty good.

Edit to add...Bam's defensive rating the last two years is lower than Jokers...and he was top ten defensive player of the year six years in a row.

I don't put a lot into those rating metrics. I'm old school. But again, who is Joker going against? Kareem went at Wilt, Parrish, Thurmond, Malone. Shaq faced Robinson, Hakeem, Mutumbo, Mourning. What is Joker's challenge? KAT? Goebert?

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I don't put a lot into those rating metrics. I'm old school. But again, who is Joker going against? Kareem went at Wilt, Parrish, Thurmond, Malone. Shaq faced Robinson, Hakeem, Mutumbo, Mourning. What is Joker's challenge? KAT? Goebert?

I'm a stat guy ... and I place WAY more emphasis on stats than feelings when evaluating performance.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

I'm a stat guy ... and I place WAY more emphasis on stats than feelings when evaluating performance.

Nothing wrong with that. We can all dress our burger how we want.

I feel like our math teachers when dealing w/numbers: Show me your work. How do we get that sum? Why does that total exist? The game that exists now is nothing like the one when Mikan played, which is not like the one when Russell played, which is not like the one when Issel played which is not like the one when Ewing played, which is not like the one when Howard played, which is not like the one Joker plays today.

While Joker is doing things no center has ever done, there has never been NBA era like this where the pivot is seen as passe'. He's a unicorn and not just based on his abilities. So I think taking into account his direct competition is fair.

What would his numbers be like if he played in the center's hey day? I have no doubt he'd still get triple doubles. But would other great centers have 20-20 games vs him? In 2026, he is pretty much like Wilt in 1960. There is no close equal. No matchup problem. No one that can get him in foul trouble. That shows his greatness, but also quantifies it a little bit.

[David Watts]

Kind of crazy to think that by getting hurt, Jokic is already disqualified from winning the MVP. I'm hoping he comes back in a few weeks and dominates the league like no one has ever done before and embarrasses the fools that created such a stupid rule.