Aborted steals

mytreds · 09-02-2020, 05:45 PM

Every time I have my base stealers on first and I select the steal second action, they never go. They always abort the attempt. I can only steal on failed hit and runs, i.e. batter swings and misses, runner advances on the steal. Anyone else encounter this?

Brad K · 09-02-2020, 05:54 PM

Your use of every, never, and always makes analysis impossible.

Matt Arnold · 09-02-2020, 06:01 PM

Players won't try on every opportunity, otherwise you could force a player to have a few hundred steals in a season. Especially players with low speed or steal ratings will rarely go even if you hit the button for them to try.

polydamas · 09-02-2020, 06:07 PM

I always run and hit instead of steal. I don't notice very many aborted attempts.

r0nster · 09-02-2020, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polydamas

I always run and hit instead of steal. I don't notice very many aborted attempts.

thats exactly what i do to avoid that

mytreds · 09-03-2020, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polydamas

I always run and hit instead of steal. I don't notice very many aborted attempts.

That’s basically what I have to do now. I played 5 straight games, and in 20 attempts by me to have my base runner solo steal second, he stopped 19 times. Just wondering if this is a bug, normal, or user error on my part.

mytreds · 09-03-2020, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Players won't try on every opportunity, otherwise you could force a player to have a few hundred steals in a season. Especially players with low speed or steal ratings will rarely go even if you hit the button for them to try.

My base stealers I’m attempting with have 7-8 ratings in steal and speed. Even then, I assumed as in real life, runners get the sign to steal, and they steal. They don’t stop halfway and go back to first. Otherwise they are picked off. Again, if this is as your hame has intended, fine, but maybe make it a little more clear what the button does or does not do.

You give us the option to intentional hit every single batter, yet having my base runner the steal a base every time I call for it is “unrealistic”?

mytreds · 09-03-2020, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

Your use of every, never, and always makes analysis impossible.

Your use of the word impossible makes your post irrelevant.

luckymann · 09-03-2020, 07:44 AM

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the game performs differently "in-play" with regard to stealing than in games of AI v AI.

I build my game plan around speed and regularly have among the highest-rated speed / steal / baserunning players on my roster. But only once have I won the SB title. Most years the league leader in this category has double (or near to) the amount of my top guy.

Moreover, I regularly experience it where my 100+ rated speedster has to resort to run and hit to be able to steal a base, thereby increasing his chances of being caught, even against low rated batteries in HOLD / ARM. Then their 65 STEAL rated guys run amok against my 90 HOLD / 75 ARM battery. This applies almost exclusively to stealing second. Third is a cakewalk, especially with a RHB at the plate.

Anecdotal rather than evidentiary or empirical, I know. That doesn't mean it isn't true.

David Watts · 09-03-2020, 10:04 AM

Been a while since I've played any of the other games on the market, but is there a single game out there that automatically sends the runner each and every time the user hits the steal option? I know the ones I've played in the past all employed something very similar to what's used by OOTP.

RchW · 09-03-2020, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

Been a while since I've played any of the other games on the market, but is there a single game out there that automatically sends the runner each and every time the user hits the steal option? I know the ones I've played in the past all employed something very similar to what's used by OOTP.

Isn't there a force run or force runner button in-game?

Matt Arnold · 09-03-2020, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Isn't there a force run or force runner button in-game?

There is a "Send Forced" button that will cause the runner to always go. Otherwise, the "Steal X" options will basically check and not always send the runner (I do agree the animations probably shouldn't have him go halfway, but's more of an overt visual cue in that case).

Otherwise, you have the hit&run or run&hit options, which are basically send forced + force the batter to swing, or send forced but let the batter potentially take the pitch. Between those 4 options gives a fair bit of leeway for handling plays depending what you want, although we will certainly think if there's either missing cases there, or perhaps a better way to display and describe the situations.

David Watts · 09-03-2020, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Isn't there a force run or force runner button in-game?

Been so long since I've managed I had to ask my nephew. He said there is a force runner button.

BBGiovanni · 09-03-2020, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

Been so long since I've managed I had to ask my nephew. He said there is a force runner button.

Right, that's supposed to mimic the runners starting on a pitch with two outs.

In all other situations I prefer to think of "send forced" as the "get thrown out" button

Brad K · 09-03-2020, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBGiovanni

Right, that's supposed to mimic the runners starting on a pitch with two outs.

In all other situations I prefer to think of "send forced" as the "get thrown out" button

Yea, maybe because they go even if they don't get a good jump.

David Watts · 09-03-2020, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

Yea, maybe because they go even if they don't get a good jump.

Yup it's working as it should.

CBeisbol · 09-03-2020, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mytreds

Your use of the word impossible makes your post irrelevant.

No

Brad is correct

When you say "always" and "never" and then later say they didn't steal in 19 out of 20 attempts it's impossible to 1) know what the truth is (is it never? 95% of the time? something else?). It's impossible to fix a problem if you don't know that the problem is.

I do think the steal command could be improved.

Perhaps "Green Light" would he better.

And an additional "force steal" which would, obviously, lead to a lot of caught stealings

BIG17EASY · 09-03-2020, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

I do think the steal command could be improved.

Perhaps "Green Light" would he better.

And an additional "force steal" which would, obviously, lead to a lot of caught stealings

I've always thought of the steal option as essentially being a green light, so I agree with you on that.

I'm not sure adding a "force steal" option is realistic. I'm quite certain the only time a team wants to force the runner to go no matter what is a situation like a full count to try to stay out of a double play, which we have with the "send forced" option, or a hit-and-run, which we also have.

CBeisbol · 09-03-2020, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I'm not sure adding a "force steal" option is realistic. I'm quite certain the only time a team wants to force the runner to go no matter what is a situation like a full count to try to stay out of a double play, which we have with the "send forced" option, or a hit-and-run, which we also have.

It's a concession to players like the OP

I also feel like there should be something "stronger" than a green light. Think Dave Roberts vs the Yankees.

Perhaps when the user calls for a steal there should be some kind of threshold.
Go if you're 90% sure you'll make it
75%
50%
...

09-02-2020, 05:45 PM	#1
mytreds All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 1,182	Aborted steals Every time I have my base stealers on first and I select the steal second action, they never go. They always abort the attempt. I can only steal on failed hit and runs, i.e. batter swings and misses, runner advances on the steal. Anyone else encounter this? __________________ “Baseball isn’t statistics; it’s Joe DiMaggio rounding second.” “Once, centuries ago, it was the beloved national pastime of the Americas, Wesley. Abandoned by a society that prized fast food and faster games. Lost to impatience.” “ The term ‘WAR’ should be replaced by ‘WAG’. WAR isn’t an actual measurement; it’s just a wild-ass guess” -Bill James RIP National League 1876-2022 Floreat semper vel invita morte. I make custom ballparks.

09-03-2020, 07:44 AM	#9
luckymann Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 13,445	There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the game performs differently "in-play" with regard to stealing than in games of AI v AI. I build my game plan around speed and regularly have among the highest-rated speed / steal / baserunning players on my roster. But only once have I won the SB title. Most years the league leader in this category has double (or near to) the amount of my top guy. Moreover, I regularly experience it where my 100+ rated speedster has to resort to run and hit to be able to steal a base, thereby increasing his chances of being caught, even against low rated batteries in HOLD / ARM. Then their 65 STEAL rated guys run amok against my 90 HOLD / 75 ARM battery. This applies almost exclusively to stealing second. Third is a cakewalk, especially with a RHB at the plate. Anecdotal rather than evidentiary or empirical, I know. That doesn't mean it isn't true. Last edited by luckymann; 09-03-2020 at 07:46 AM.

09-02-2020, 05:54 PM	#2
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	Your use of every, never, and always makes analysis impossible.

09-02-2020, 06:01 PM	#3
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,834	Players won't try on every opportunity, otherwise you could force a player to have a few hundred steals in a season. Especially players with low speed or steal ratings will rarely go even if you hit the button for them to try.

09-02-2020, 06:07 PM	#4
polydamas All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 599	I always run and hit instead of steal. I don't notice very many aborted attempts.

09-03-2020, 10:04 AM	#10
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,871 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Been a while since I've played any of the other games on the market, but is there a single game out there that automatically sends the runner each and every time the user hits the steal option? I know the ones I've played in the past all employed something very similar to what's used by OOTP.