What the heck?

luckymann · 10-23-2020, 08:59 AM

I just got this in the mailbox for the Footnote League. Why would this happen when it is supposed to follow the historical expansion of the MLB?

68pirate · 10-23-2020, 09:57 AM

Under Global Settings, make sure the "Enable Storylines" box is not checked. If it is, it will sometimes override the timeline of actual historical rules changes.

joefromchicago · 10-23-2020, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 68pirate

Under Global Settings, make sure the "Enable Storylines" box is not checked. If it is, it will sometimes override the timeline of actual historical rules changes.

Nope, that has nothing to do with storylines. That's automatic league evolution. It's also a box that must be unchecked.

luckymann · 10-23-2020, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Nope, that has nothing to do with storylines. That's automatic league evolution. It's also a box that must be unchecked.

Shouldn't automatic league evolution strictly follow what happened IRL? It has been for other aspects such as franchise moves and name changes.

joefromchicago · 10-23-2020, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckymann

Shouldn't automatic league evolution strictly follow what happened IRL? It has been for other aspects such as franchise moves and name changes.

Well, it's "automatic" in the sense that you don't change it, the AI does. In OOTP terms, it's called "dynamically evolving league." A lot of OOTP players detest this option and it's the first thing they turn off when they create a league, but I can see its appeal to some players who'd rather adapt to changing circumstances than be in charge of everything. It all depends on how much control you want over your league.

A lot of folks think the option should be disabled by default, as unwary players who don't know about this option will be caught by surprise when a major change takes place - as appears to have happened to you

luckymann · 10-23-2020, 11:13 AM

OK, I may be missing something here. I have attached a screenshot of the HISTORICAL tab in SETTINGS. You see I have checked the "Automatically expand league" option.

I have also attached a screenshot of the 21 Manual description of historical expansion.

Nowhere in that manual section does it mention anything other than following historical league expansion / structure / name changes. As far as I'm aware there was no DL introduced into the National League in 1904.

Dynamic evolution, on the other hand, is what I thought was the one to stay clear of. And I don't think dynamic evolution is available in historical saves. Or at least I can't see it in the OPTIONS tab, which is where the manual says it should be (see third and fourth attachments).

So, unless I am greatly mistaken, this is a bug.

joefromchicago · 10-23-2020, 12:24 PM

Somebody else is going to have to help you out here. I have never created a random-debut league - no interest in that whatsoever. So I don't know if that's historical or fictional. I am very confident, however, that storylines have nothing to do with random rule changes.

David Watts · 10-23-2020, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Somebody else is going to have to help you out here. I have never created a random-debut league - no interest in that whatsoever. So I don't know if that's historical or fictional. I am very confident, however, that storylines have nothing to do with random rule changes.

Random Debut leagues if created using the historical wizard operate exactly like a historical league. Except for all park factors being set to neutral. As Luckyman said, Dynamic Evolution is not even an option, as it is for fictional leagues/mlb quickstarts only. Historical expansion is what controls most of a leagues automatic changes through history.

I agree, storylines are not going to cause a rule change. Looking at Luckyman's screenshots, I have no idea how the DH could come into play in year 1903. The only way I can see that happening is if one creates the league using the fictional setup wizard or custom game wizard and leaves the box for dynamic evolution checked.

David Watts · 10-23-2020, 01:40 PM

Luckyman, probably a stupid question, but did you check to see if rule change actually went into effect for the NL? Just wondering if this might be simply a news release bug?

luckymann · 10-23-2020, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

Luckyman, probably a stupid question, but did you check to see if rule change actually went into effect for the NL? Just wondering if this might be simply a news release bug?

I've checked my notes and this league was definitely set up as a historical with random debut.

And yeah, I thought that could have been the case and I'd just never heard of it, so I went and did some snooping. Nowhere have I seen a 1904 NL DH mentioned. Obviously it is an easy thing to deal with, which I have. But it worries me that something else not so easily fixed may come into play unexpectedly down the track.

Mat · 10-30-2020, 04:39 AM

Do you see this option in league settings > options?

luckymann · 10-30-2020, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat

Do you see this option in league settings > options?

I believe that screenshot you've uploaded Mat is for fictional leagues, mine is historical. See post # 6 for what my OPTIONS tab looks like.

Mat · 10-30-2020, 07:46 AM

Yes it is, I cant remember how to do it right now but I was sure you could have a historical/fictional so I was wondering if you these options also.

I didnt notice your second screenshot at first, I am assuming there is nothing above the promotion/relegation section ?

RchW · 10-30-2020, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Well, it's "automatic" in the sense that you don't change it, the AI does. In OOTP terms, it's called "dynamically evolving league." A lot of OOTP players detest this option and it's the first thing they turn off when they create a league, but I can see its appeal to some players who'd rather adapt to changing circumstances than be in charge of everything. It all depends on how much control you want over your league.

A lot of folks think the option should be disabled by default, as unwary players who don't know about this option will be caught by surprise when a major change takes place - as appears to have happened to you

I've been on this issue for years and it's disappointing to me that it's not fixed.

luckymann · 11-03-2020, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat

Yes it is, I cant remember how to do it right now but I was sure you could have a historical/fictional so I was wondering if you these options also.

I didnt notice your second screenshot at first, I am assuming there is nothing above the promotion/relegation section ?

You assume correctly. And while this one was an easy fix. I'm just worried the next one won't be. Still think it's a bug.

10-23-2020, 08:59 AM	#1
luckymann Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 13,806	What the heck? I just got this in the mailbox for the Footnote League. Why would this happen when it is supposed to follow the historical expansion of the MLB? Attached Images

10-23-2020, 11:13 AM	#6
luckymann Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 13,806	OK, I may be missing something here. I have attached a screenshot of the HISTORICAL tab in SETTINGS. You see I have checked the "Automatically expand league" option. I have also attached a screenshot of the 21 Manual description of historical expansion. Nowhere in that manual section does it mention anything other than following historical league expansion / structure / name changes. As far as I'm aware there was no DL introduced into the National League in 1904. Dynamic evolution, on the other hand, is what I thought was the one to stay clear of. And I don't think dynamic evolution is available in historical saves. Or at least I can't see it in the OPTIONS tab, which is where the manual says it should be (see third and fourth attachments). So, unless I am greatly mistaken, this is a bug. Attached Images

10-23-2020, 12:24 PM	#7
joefromchicago Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,722	Somebody else is going to have to help you out here. I have never created a random-debut league - no interest in that whatsoever. So I don't know if that's historical or fictional. I am very confident, however, that storylines have nothing to do with random rule changes. __________________ American-Ethnic (and Canadian) Namesets Historical Minor League Schedules 1870s City/Team Nickname Randomizers "It's Usually Sunny in Philadelphia" weather mod Negro League Schedules

10-23-2020, 09:57 AM	#2
68pirate Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 85	Under Global Settings, make sure the "Enable Storylines" box is not checked. If it is, it will sometimes override the timeline of actual historical rules changes.

10-23-2020, 01:40 PM	#9
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 10,058 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Luckyman, probably a stupid question, but did you check to see if rule change actually went into effect for the NL? Just wondering if this might be simply a news release bug?

10-30-2020, 04:39 AM	#11
Mat All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Australia Posts: 652	Do you see this option in league settings > options?

10-30-2020, 07:46 AM	#13
Mat All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Australia Posts: 652	Yes it is, I cant remember how to do it right now but I was sure you could have a historical/fictional so I was wondering if you these options also. I didnt notice your second screenshot at first, I am assuming there is nothing above the promotion/relegation section ?