The Dark Side

David Watts · 09-27-2022, 09:13 AM

I'm 7 years into a random debut league and it's one that may get me banned from the historical forums once and for all. You see, I'm not using recalc. This league is 100% OOTP development engine with TCR set to 100. It's a small league, one subleague of 12 teams, no divisions. League began in 1961 and I'm about to wrap up 1967. I'm using historical modifiers according to year.. Been fast simming seasons and then watching the post seasons play out.

So, I will leave it up to y'all whether I deserve a ban. I enjoy my time in this forum, but if my sins warrant it, I will move on to the fictional forum

David Watts · 10-03-2022, 11:18 AM

Well, I liked some of what I was seeing without recalc, but there were things like Lou Whitaker turning out to be a low end bench player for the prime of his career that turned me off as well. I was seeing quite a few of the modern day players fail, which is odd, because when using recalc I often feel the modern day players are too productive. Francisco Lindor was pretty Lamar mundane, Trevor Story was relegated to a bench player pretty early in his career. I did like how the players moved from season to season using only the development engine. Closers for example were way more consistent year after year without recalc on. When using recalc the closer role is often a game of musical chairs. I definitely think recalc results in more outlier type seasons.

LansdowneSt · 10-03-2022, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

Well, I liked some of what I was seeing without recalc, but there were things like Lou Whitaker turning out to be a low end bench player for the prime of his career that turned me off as well. I was seeing quite a few of the modern day players fail, which is odd, because when using recalc I often feel the modern day players are too productive. Francisco Lindor was pretty Lamar mundane, Trevor Story was relegated to a bench player pretty early in his career. I did like how the players moved from season to season using only the development engine. Closers for example were way more consistent year after year without recalc on. When using recalc the closer role is often a game of musical chairs. I definitely think recalc results in more outlier type seasons.

Any big upside surprises in performance for particular players?

Brad K · 10-03-2022, 08:15 PM

The only truly historical save is one with historical teams, historical players, as played schedules, and as played lineups. Obviously people consider saves with a lot more non historical than that still be in the historical house.

To me what qualifies a save as being within the scope of historical is that it uses what was available at the time in a plausible way. So I don't consider not using recalc to make it non historical. Likewise, expansion that's not exactly historical but plausible keeps the save in the area of historical.

I think 12 teams in 1967 isn't plausible and also think random debut doesn't qualify as historical. HOWEVER, I think if you were to ask your questions on the fictional forum they'd tell you that the save doesn't qualify as fictional because it has real players (even though often at the wrong time) and historical modifiers.

Anyway, if I were you I wouldn't worry about it.

David Watts · 10-04-2022, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

The only truly historical save is one with historical teams, historical players, as played schedules, and as played lineups. Obviously people consider saves with a lot more non historical than that still be in the historical house.

To me what qualifies a save as being within the scope of historical is that it uses what was available at the time in a plausible way. So I don't consider not using recalc to make it non historical. Likewise, expansion that's not exactly historical but plausible keeps the save in the area of historical.

I think 12 teams in 1967 isn't plausible and also think random debut doesn't qualify as historical. HOWEVER, I think if you were to ask your questions on the fictional forum they'd tell you that the save doesn't qualify as fictional because it has real players (even though often at the wrong time) and historical modifiers.

Anyway, if I were you I wouldn't worry about it.

I love this section of the forums, so I'm going to take your advice.

David Watts · 10-04-2022, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Any big upside surprises in performance for particular players?

There were some, but not too many. I think the disappointments stood out way more.

Reed · 10-04-2022, 10:17 AM

In my humble opinion, pretty much the only thing historical in that set up are the names. You are making a completely alternate universe but then seem disappointed that it seems so different than real life. I would say your game is about 90% fictional.
As you know, I play random and I consider that about 80% fictional.

David Watts · 10-04-2022, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed

In my humble opinion, pretty much the only thing historical in that set up are the names. You are making a completely alternate universe but then seem disappointed that it seems so different than real life. I would say your game is about 90% fictional.
As you know, I play random and I consider that about 80% fictional.

I don't disagree. I actually think that the fictional aspect of random debut is what draws me to it. I like creating leagues and watching them build history. Lately I've been doing more simming and just playing out the final months or maybe just the post season. This allows me to get through more season. I've been trying to find the sweet spot in terms of settings.

Are you still using "double weight the current year" in your leagues? It's on by default this year

Reed · 10-04-2022, 03:02 PM

I tried 1 year recalc but I have gone back to 3 year recalc double weight current year. I play at a somewhat slow pace. Started in 1901 and now up to 1908. What I like most is seeing players that I have forgotten about.
Right now in my league I have Jim Rice, Carl Yastrzemski and his grandson Mike which I think is pretty cool.. Carl is on pace to win the triple crown in one league and Don Mattingly ison pace to win the triple crown in the other league. Never had 2 batters win the triple crown in the same year but about 40 games remain.

David Watts · 10-06-2022, 08:38 AM

Still playing around with this no calc league. Walter Johnson is 23-2 so far in 1969. He has 180+ wins over 9 seasons. Bobby Mathews younger than Johnson has been invincible on the mounds as well.

Brad K · 10-06-2022, 03:10 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esEcwAWi6dk

David Watts · 10-06-2022, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esEcwAWi6dk

I guessed wrong. I thought for sure it would be a John Cafferty video

Brad K · 10-06-2022, 09:10 PM

Considering your reference to the Dark Side I'm surprised someone hadn't done something like that previously.

Brad K · 10-06-2022, 09:14 PM

I found the musical act for your world series game opening ceremonies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_WERPN8KO8

David Watts · 10-07-2022, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

I found the musical act for your world series game opening ceremonies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_WERPN8KO8

Love it.

David Watts · 10-13-2022, 09:14 AM

Alright, I had to move away from the dark side and head toward the light, so I've moved on and now have a 12 team, one subleague random debut league going. This one started in 1950 and I'm using 5 year recalc. I turned off the "double weight the current year." This league is using a combo of 5 year recalc and the OOTP development engine. I went back and found some of Garlon's recommendations for adjust and make bad settings.

I'm liking what I'm seeing so far. My last few leagues with recalc on, I was having a major issue with modern day stars turning into super studs and stringing together Khris Davis like groundhog day like stats year after year. Not seeing that with this go around with double weight turned off. I have Francisco Lindor and Paul Goldschmidt in this league and they have had a good mix of season outcomes. Jared Walsh and Randy Arozarena are in the league as well and I'm glad to say they aren't hitting .325 or better every season.

Beirnej1 · 10-13-2022, 09:57 AM

which make bad settings are you using?

David Watts · 10-13-2022, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beirnej1

which make bad settings are you using?

At work, but pretty sure it was 167 54 for hitters and 17 14 for pitchers. I think Garlon posted them in a old thread of mine titled Career Recalc if you want to do a search for his post.

Pelican · 10-24-2022, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

The only truly historical save is one with historical teams, historical players, as played schedules, and as played lineups. Obviously people consider saves with a lot more non historical than that still be in the historical house.

To me what qualifies a save as being within the scope of historical is that it uses what was available at the time in a plausible way. So I don't consider not using recalc to make it non historical. Likewise, expansion that's not exactly historical but plausible keeps the save in the area of historical.

Anyway, if I were you I wouldn't worry about it.

In the first paragraph, I think you are confusing historical with replay. Certainly a manager could change lineups, while sticking to the available players, and could also make trades, promote rookies. As you seem to say in the second paragraph. My practice is to start with what was available at the time, and play/manage in a plausible way. That would include making trades, promoting rookies, signing free agents, and making up my own lineups. I would still consider that historical and not fictional; but it would not be a strict replay with no input or changes.

For example, in my 1938 season sim, I have dissolved the color line, and many (but not all) teams have signed Negro League players. Lou Gehrig does not contract ALS in my sim.

In my 1952 Season, managing the A’s, we signed several Negro League stars who were passed over, or relegated to the minors.

My formula for the 1960 Phillies was to undo the awful trades of Richie Ashburn, Don Cardwell, Robin Roberts, Curt Simmons, Jack Sanford, and other foolish moves.

09-27-2022, 09:13 AM	#1
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,611 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	The Dark Side I'm 7 years into a random debut league and it's one that may get me banned from the historical forums once and for all. You see, I'm not using recalc. This league is 100% OOTP development engine with TCR set to 100. It's a small league, one subleague of 12 teams, no divisions. League began in 1961 and I'm about to wrap up 1967. I'm using historical modifiers according to year.. Been fast simming seasons and then watching the post seasons play out. So, I will leave it up to y'all whether I deserve a ban. I enjoy my time in this forum, but if my sins warrant it, I will move on to the fictional forum

10-03-2022, 08:15 PM	#4
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,658 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	The only truly historical save is one with historical teams, historical players, as played schedules, and as played lineups. Obviously people consider saves with a lot more non historical than that still be in the historical house. To me what qualifies a save as being within the scope of historical is that it uses what was available at the time in a plausible way. So I don't consider not using recalc to make it non historical. Likewise, expansion that's not exactly historical but plausible keeps the save in the area of historical. I think 12 teams in 1967 isn't plausible and also think random debut doesn't qualify as historical. HOWEVER, I think if you were to ask your questions on the fictional forum they'd tell you that the save doesn't qualify as fictional because it has real players (even though often at the wrong time) and historical modifiers. Anyway, if I were you I wouldn't worry about it. __________________ . Pirates Play Moneyball 1951-2008 Ratings and League Totals Modifiers A new pre-calc file! (Applause!) Settings and Auto-calc Popular Opinions and Undisputable Facts The cover up is usually more damaging than the original act. Last edited by Brad K; 10-03-2022 at 11:59 PM.

10-04-2022, 03:02 PM	#9
Reed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 2,339	I tried 1 year recalc but I have gone back to 3 year recalc double weight current year. I play at a somewhat slow pace. Started in 1901 and now up to 1908. What I like most is seeing players that I have forgotten about. Right now in my league I have Jim Rice, Carl Yastrzemski and his grandson Mike which I think is pretty cool.. Carl is on pace to win the triple crown in one league and Don Mattingly ison pace to win the triple crown in the other league. Never had 2 batters win the triple crown in the same year but about 40 games remain. Last edited by Reed; 10-04-2022 at 03:24 PM.

10-06-2022, 03:10 PM	#11
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,658 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esEcwAWi6dk __________________ . Pirates Play Moneyball 1951-2008 Ratings and League Totals Modifiers A new pre-calc file! (Applause!) Settings and Auto-calc Popular Opinions and Undisputable Facts The cover up is usually more damaging than the original act. Last edited by Brad K; 10-06-2022 at 03:13 PM.

10-06-2022, 09:10 PM	#13
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,658 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	Considering your reference to the Dark Side I'm surprised someone hadn't done something like that previously. __________________ . Pirates Play Moneyball 1951-2008 Ratings and League Totals Modifiers A new pre-calc file! (Applause!) Settings and Auto-calc Popular Opinions and Undisputable Facts The cover up is usually more damaging than the original act.

10-03-2022, 11:18 AM	#2
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,611 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Well, I liked some of what I was seeing without recalc, but there were things like Lou Whitaker turning out to be a low end bench player for the prime of his career that turned me off as well. I was seeing quite a few of the modern day players fail, which is odd, because when using recalc I often feel the modern day players are too productive. Francisco Lindor was pretty Lamar mundane, Trevor Story was relegated to a bench player pretty early in his career. I did like how the players moved from season to season using only the development engine. Closers for example were way more consistent year after year without recalc on. When using recalc the closer role is often a game of musical chairs. I definitely think recalc results in more outlier type seasons.

10-04-2022, 10:17 AM	#7
Reed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 2,339	In my humble opinion, pretty much the only thing historical in that set up are the names. You are making a completely alternate universe but then seem disappointed that it seems so different than real life. I would say your game is about 90% fictional. As you know, I play random and I consider that about 80% fictional.

10-06-2022, 08:38 AM	#10
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,611 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Still playing around with this no calc league. Walter Johnson is 23-2 so far in 1969. He has 180+ wins over 9 seasons. Bobby Mathews younger than Johnson has been invincible on the mounds as well.

10-06-2022, 09:14 PM	#14
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,658 Infractions: 0/2 (3)	I found the musical act for your world series game opening ceremonies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_WERPN8KO8 __________________ . Pirates Play Moneyball 1951-2008 Ratings and League Totals Modifiers A new pre-calc file! (Applause!) Settings and Auto-calc Popular Opinions and Undisputable Facts The cover up is usually more damaging than the original act.

10-13-2022, 09:14 AM	#16
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,611 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Alright, I had to move away from the dark side and head toward the light, so I've moved on and now have a 12 team, one subleague random debut league going. This one started in 1950 and I'm using 5 year recalc. I turned off the "double weight the current year." This league is using a combo of 5 year recalc and the OOTP development engine. I went back and found some of Garlon's recommendations for adjust and make bad settings. I'm liking what I'm seeing so far. My last few leagues with recalc on, I was having a major issue with modern day stars turning into super studs and stringing together Khris Davis like groundhog day like stats year after year. Not seeing that with this go around with double weight turned off. I have Francisco Lindor and Paul Goldschmidt in this league and they have had a good mix of season outcomes. Jared Walsh and Randy Arozarena are in the league as well and I'm glad to say they aren't hitting .325 or better every season.

10-13-2022, 09:57 AM	#17
Beirnej1 Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 115	which make bad settings are you using?