Possible to build a competing MLB league?

Bulldog Johnny Blatnik · 12-12-2021, 01:29 PM

I'm curious if it's possible to successfully build a professional baseball league to run concurrently as a competitor to Major League Baseball? I've tried something similar years ago but ran into issues when it came time for free agency. But the idea has always stuck with me. Given the current state of lock-out in MLB I wander what would happen if MLB was seriously challenged by a new league. It's been a 100+ years (not counting the failed Continental League), perhaps it's time to find out.

Back story: I was thinking of creating a fictional professional league made up of owners frustrated over the endless lock-out of MLB that cancels the 2022 season. The new league would be something like 16 teams. The league would commence in the Spring of 2023.

But what would a competing league look like to survive against the MLB? What rule changes would bring in the fans and make players want to jump to the new league? Less years until free agency? Salary cap?

I would be very interested to know what others think of the proposed new league and how they would implement it if they were appointed commissioner. And most importantly, can it be done in OOTP?

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! Thanks!!

LansdowneSt · 12-12-2021, 03:34 PM

This is all an impression based on reading various threads over the years but would love for a developer to chime in....

I believe there can only be one major league and that is MLB. I believe there may also have to be two divisions in the MLB. This came up as some of us were speculating how the Negro League's new MLB status would be incorporated into the game. It's more than just elevating the stats (like was done for the 1871-1875 NA in the game) to MLB stats - it'd be having the NeL teams in the game as a parallel MLB-rated league but there are limitations to that approach based on how the game was built from a coding perspective. You could have additional MLB divisions that don't play the "regular" MLB ones and free agency would be smooth that way and trades too but those AltMLB stats will still all be on the same leaderboard and you'd need to think about post season and award consequences.

I think if you went with an *** set-up or even the 1920+ NeL approach as OOTP currently has it, where it is a separate AAA or foreign league, the players in-game would see it as a lesser league in all respects, I think. But maybe that's true to life.

fredbeene · 12-16-2021, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

This is all be impression based on reading various threads over the years but would love for a developer to chime in....

I believe there can only be one major league and that is MLB. I believe there may also have to be two divisions in the MLB. This came up as some of us were speculating how the Negro League's new MLB status would be incorporated into the game. It's more than just elevating the stats (like was done for the 1871-1875 NA in the game) to MLB stats - it'd be having the NeL teams in the game as a parallel MLB-rated league but there are limitations to that approach based on how the game was built from a coding perspective. You could have additional MLB divisions that don't play the "regular" MLB ones and free agency wpuld be smooth that way and trades too but those AltMLB stats will still all be on the same leaderboard and you'd need to think about post season and award consequences.

I think if you went with an *** set-up or even the 1920+ NeL approach as OOTP currently has it, where it is a separate AAA or foreign league, the players in-game would see it as a lesser league in all respects, I think. But maybe that's true to life.

Hmmmmm this is interesting question......That would be a new fun way (challenge) to play the game. WHA did it.....ABA did it......it would be interesting to see if you had MLB and started a rogue Baseball league luring some free agents.....how long it would take to build up to x number of teams or which team would survive in dual city (ie should i create a team in CHI or Columbus ohio...)
So many things to look fw too with future enhancements once we get our sortable team stats :P

Pelican · 12-21-2021, 12:42 PM

I have tried this with the Federal League in 1914, and much earlier with the Union Association in 1884. Laborious task, in that there was no template provided for either league in OOTP. However, the players who played in the "major leagues" as defined by OOTP exist, and the others can be roughly created. My main player issue was no minors in 1884 or 1914, although players who later played in the majors do exist, with their minor league records, in 1914. If you are trying this today, you would have the entire universe of players, down to independent leagues and unsigned free agents. I think, as long as your new league was unaffiliated with MLB or any MLB team, it could operate independently. Of course, labor of love, you would have to set up franchises with stadiums and budgets and their own farm systems. [Others would know better; but you might be able to reach the same outcome through expansion; although this would be within the structure of MLB, and not the competitive outlier you want. Another option is to play off-season, winter league, when MLB players might be "available" to you.]. You might have to play as Commissioner, at least as to the teams in your new league, as I don't know how you you could otherwise prevent MLB raids and signings of your new league players by the AI. I'd encourage you to try and post the results.

Trebro · 12-21-2021, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bulldog Johnny Blatnik

And most importantly, can it be done in OOTP?

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! Thanks!!

It absolutely *can* be done. Takes work--you have to go into global and set up a new league, with all the setting you want and then delete all its players so you can use existing ones. But it's very doable. If you search forums there should be some how-tos posted over the years.

joefromchicago · 12-21-2021, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bulldog Johnny Blatnik

I'm curious if it's possible to successfully build a professional baseball league to run concurrently as a competitor to Major League Baseball?

Depends on the terminology you use. In OOTP terms, there can only be one "league" at a time. But for OOTP, a "league" is the equivalent of a tier or level of baseball.* So, for instance, in real life the top tier is MLB. You can't have another top-tier "league" running at the same time, unless you create an association or you set up your rival league as a foreign league at the same level as MLB (and I'm not entirely sure about that last bit).

Below the "league" is the "sub-league." The equivalent in real-life terms is the "league," such as the AL and NL. In OOTP, there can only be two sub-leagues under one league. So if you wanted to set up a third league to compete with the NL/AL, you would, again, have to create an association.

If I understand you correctly, what you want is to have a world where players can potentially play in any of the three leagues (or sub-leagues in OOTP speak). That would mean the same universe of players spread out among the three leagues. Again, that's not possible in OOTP without creating an association. And someone who knows more about associations than me - which is literally almost anyone - would have to explain how to set that up.

It would be great if MLB's decision to acknowledge the Negro Leagues as major leagues would be the final impetus for the OOTP development team to expand the number of possible sub-leagues beyond the current limit of two. But I believe that limit is so firmly embedded in the code that it would be difficult to wrench it out. I know even less about computer coding than I do about associations in OOTP, however, so I can only speculate.

*OOTP also uses "league" as the equivalent of "the world," which is kinda' confusing. So your "league" (world) will have a "league" (tier) which has one or two "sub-leagues" (leagues).

beepollen · 12-22-2021, 01:34 AM

Best of luck to you. Wish I had advice to give, but my foray into such a world was a time-sucking mess.

I tried to put together a league that starts up right after the players go on strike in '94. Declared everyone in the MLB to be free agents... and then they all signed Triple-A teams. (sad trombone)

mitchkenn · 12-22-2021, 03:50 AM

by using the association feature - you can create another league to run along with MLB. You can make trades between the leagues and share a draft. Takes a "bit" of work but is doable. it's been 5 or more years since i did this, so very rusty on details but i figured it out from the manual, so it can be done. Unfortunately all the notes and stuff i had were on an older (deceased) computer.

BBGiovanni · 12-22-2021, 11:29 AM

Try to create the league around the time free agency starts so that the teams have a chance to grab available players (assuming that's how you want it to work).

Bulldog Johnny Blatnik · 12-22-2021, 03:53 PM

Thank you all! I never thought it possible but everyone's replies has made me optimistic!!

I'm working on building a competing league, I don't mind the work to custom build a league, financials and modifiers, I've done it so many times over the years. Though I might try simming a little before spending too much time on uniforms and such.

My biggest worry is finding a way to have one draft class for both leagues with competing bids for the players.

As BBGiovanni suggested, I set-up a new game of OOTP and simmed till the season ended then started the new league to allow teams to sign free agent players (and manager I hope) during the Winter. Both leagues will play games starting in the Spring of 2022.

12-12-2021, 01:29 PM	#1
Bulldog Johnny Blatnik Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 29	Possible to build a competing MLB league? I'm curious if it's possible to successfully build a professional baseball league to run concurrently as a competitor to Major League Baseball? I've tried something similar years ago but ran into issues when it came time for free agency. But the idea has always stuck with me. Given the current state of lock-out in MLB I wander what would happen if MLB was seriously challenged by a new league. It's been a 100+ years (not counting the failed Continental League), perhaps it's time to find out. Back story: I was thinking of creating a fictional professional league made up of owners frustrated over the endless lock-out of MLB that cancels the 2022 season. The new league would be something like 16 teams. The league would commence in the Spring of 2023. But what would a competing league look like to survive against the MLB? What rule changes would bring in the fans and make players want to jump to the new league? Less years until free agency? Salary cap? I would be very interested to know what others think of the proposed new league and how they would implement it if they were appointed commissioner. And most importantly, can it be done in OOTP? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! Thanks!!

12-12-2021, 03:34 PM	#2
LansdowneSt Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: From Duxbury, Mass residing Baltimore Posts: 8,117	This is all an impression based on reading various threads over the years but would love for a developer to chime in.... I believe there can only be one major league and that is MLB. I believe there may also have to be two divisions in the MLB. This came up as some of us were speculating how the Negro League's new MLB status would be incorporated into the game. It's more than just elevating the stats (like was done for the 1871-1875 NA in the game) to MLB stats - it'd be having the NeL teams in the game as a parallel MLB-rated league but there are limitations to that approach based on how the game was built from a coding perspective. You could have additional MLB divisions that don't play the "regular" MLB ones and free agency would be smooth that way and trades too but those AltMLB stats will still all be on the same leaderboard and you'd need to think about post season and award consequences. I think if you went with an *** set-up or even the 1920+ NeL approach as OOTP currently has it, where it is a separate AAA or foreign league, the players in-game would see it as a lesser league in all respects, I think. But maybe that's true to life. Last edited by LansdowneSt; 12-16-2021 at 11:39 PM. Reason: typo

12-21-2021, 12:42 PM	#4
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 3,193	I have tried this with the Federal League in 1914, and much earlier with the Union Association in 1884. Laborious task, in that there was no template provided for either league in OOTP. However, the players who played in the "major leagues" as defined by OOTP exist, and the others can be roughly created. My main player issue was no minors in 1884 or 1914, although players who later played in the majors do exist, with their minor league records, in 1914. If you are trying this today, you would have the entire universe of players, down to independent leagues and unsigned free agents. I think, as long as your new league was unaffiliated with MLB or any MLB team, it could operate independently. Of course, labor of love, you would have to set up franchises with stadiums and budgets and their own farm systems. [Others would know better; but you might be able to reach the same outcome through expansion; although this would be within the structure of MLB, and not the competitive outlier you want. Another option is to play off-season, winter league, when MLB players might be "available" to you.]. You might have to play as Commissioner, at least as to the teams in your new league, as I don't know how you you could otherwise prevent MLB raids and signings of your new league players by the AI. I'd encourage you to try and post the results. Last edited by Pelican; 12-21-2021 at 12:43 PM.

12-22-2021, 01:34 AM	#7
beepollen All Star Starter Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 1,168	Best of luck to you. Wish I had advice to give, but my foray into such a world was a time-sucking mess. I tried to put together a league that starts up right after the players go on strike in '94. Declared everyone in the MLB to be free agents... and then they all signed Triple-A teams. (sad trombone) Last edited by beepollen; 12-22-2021 at 01:35 AM.

12-22-2021, 03:50 AM	#8
mitchkenn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Oregon, not by design Posts: 2,872	by using the association feature - you can create another league to run along with MLB. You can make trades between the leagues and share a draft. Takes a "bit" of work but is doable. it's been 5 or more years since i did this, so very rusty on details but i figured it out from the manual, so it can be done. Unfortunately all the notes and stuff i had were on an older (deceased) computer. __________________ "This is my opening farewell " - Jackson Browne “They make a desolation and call it peace.” ― Agha Shahid Ali "Maybe she just has to sing, for the sake of the song - And who do I think that I am to decide that she's wrong." - Townes Van Zandt "I saw a young man leaning on his wooden crutch - He called out to me, 'Don't ask for so much' And a young woman leaning in her darkened door She cried out to me, 'Why not ask for more?' " - Leonard Cohen "Hello darkness, my old Friend ...." - Paul Simon Before Mays, before DiMaggio, there was Oscar Charleston. "All the lies about Babe Ruth are true." - Waite Hoyt Avatar is the late great Townes Van Zandt. rip.

12-22-2021, 11:29 AM	#9
BBGiovanni All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Republic of California Posts: 1,910	Try to create the league around the time free agency starts so that the teams have a chance to grab available players (assuming that's how you want it to work). __________________ Let's Go (San Jose) Giants, Let's Go Mets! Current Project: WBAT/AABBA: Organized Base Ball And the "New Normal" World Baseball Aid Tournament 2023 trophy round underway!

12-22-2021, 03:53 PM	#10
Bulldog Johnny Blatnik Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 29	Thank you all! I never thought it possible but everyone's replies has made me optimistic!! I'm working on building a competing league, I don't mind the work to custom build a league, financials and modifiers, I've done it so many times over the years. Though I might try simming a little before spending too much time on uniforms and such. My biggest worry is finding a way to have one draft class for both leagues with competing bids for the players. As BBGiovanni suggested, I set-up a new game of OOTP and simmed till the season ended then started the new league to allow teams to sign free agent players (and manager I hope) during the Winter. Both leagues will play games starting in the Spring of 2022.