League Total Modifiers: Finding the Right Files and Numbers

[Charlie Hough]

I'm trying to work with OOTP Developments on a major bug with importing historical league total modifiers, and I need some help in verifying where to find the right files that contain the correct modifiers for OOTP 23.

The total_modifiers and total_modifiers_neutralized text files in the default database folder should be what I need. But the numbers that OOTP 23 imports never match these, and the categories of the numbers are not labeled in the database text files.

I have attached a screenshot of the numbers I need to find for each historical season. Should I use the total_modifiers or total_modifiers_neutralized files (depending on whether I'm using neutralized stats), so I can manually enter the correct numbers and work around this bug?

There are 40 total modifiers on this screen, and there are 40 numbers for each season in the total_modifiers and total_modifiers_neutralized text files (screenshot of this attached). Hopefully I can use one of those.

But I want to be sure these files are still valid, and I want to make sure that I enter the numbers in the right sequence. I'm assuming that the numbers in the text files follow the sequence on the screen, with numbers for boxes under the Errors column entered last.

[actionjackson]

Oof. This one's a doozy. Are you trying to replicate the output of a certain season, or do you want that feature automated? Looks like you've got that box checked, so I'm gonna assume automated. You can also do it manually, by merely selecting the year, and the AI will fill in the modifier settings that it will use to try and reach the league totals that you're hoping to reach.

Are the league totals (the nine to the left at the top) the ones that you're aiming for? What will happen is that the total modifiers will change every year, to adjust the game to get you the league wide totals that you want. They won't be 1.000 all the way down, and they won't be whatever's in the file, because once you've started your game, the AI will continually adjust the modifiers to pull the totals towards where they "should" be.

Not sure that makes any sense, but I'll post a couple of pics of my Stats & AI page settings. This is from Actionland, where it's always 1984. The day before the regular season starts, I hit that "Select Year" bar, and select 1984. The AI roars to life, and when it's done, there are different numbers in all the modifier boxes. That should tell you that there really are no designated modifiers for each season. They're constantly being adjusted. I know they look kind of weird, really weird in some cases, but they are designed to get you to the totals in the boxes at the top left, and they do a terrific job at it. I wouldn't set them back to 1.000, or whatever it says in the .txt file, because I don't think you'll get what you want year over year. In fact, for the first year of my current save, I selected 1984 three times, and different modifiers popped up each time. It's just AI voodoo to get you where you want to go, really.

[kq76]

I don't play historical so I'm only hazarding a guess here, but I don't think the game is really meant to import the actual numbers from the file. Obviously there must be a purpose to them, otherwise why have them, but seeing as how running auto-calc multiple times will give you different numbers, I think it's only meant to give you numbers close to, or maybe only modified by, that set of numbers while comparing your league's ratings to its totals.

Your other thread mentioned a modifier of 5 something for sac bunts. I see above you have the 1979 totals, haven't pressed auto-calc, and have a 1 for sac bunts. I tested a 1979 file (I don't know your exact settings, but...), pressed auto-calc three times and got 2.019, 2.163, 2.323, and I'm sure more presses would just result in more 2s. And while 2s, it would seem, are still a bit on the high side, they're nowhere near the 5 you got. I wouldn't be shocked by 2s, but I would be by a 5, so I don't know what was with that lg of yours. If it was a league you had run for multiple years and let the development engine do whatever it wanted, maybe sac bunt ratings got out whack with you'd see from a freshly created 1979 league, and then the 5 was generated only to try to get it back in line?

Did you also tweak the left side of the screen's General Strategic Tendencies in that league? That could throw off your modifiers too. For instance, as a test I set bunting to Very Rarely (from Often) then pressed auto-calc again and the modifier changed to 7.621! In the past I've sometimes found GST settings completely contrary to what I'd expect for the year and so I changed them, but I'm not sure why they're there as modifiers and them seem to control the same thing. Only modifiers seem to allow you to get closer to what you want so maybe don't change the GSTs.

[Garlon]

The game generates the modifiers dynamically when you set up a league. The only tube it will reference the modifier files is when you create an exhibition game from the title screen.

If you are trying to get your league to play to the ratios of a particular season then you should select that season in the modifiers screen before opening day. Do not press the button to generate the modifiers. Simply select the season you want and then proceed to sinister until opening day and the game will dynamically create the appropriate modifiers to get the results you want.

There is no bug with the modifiers.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by Garlon

There is no bug with the modifiers.

I beg to differ, and this has been reported, documented with numerous saved game test files, and I've provided OOTP Developments with multiple save files and a video to show the sim's behavior.

First, let's be clear on what I'm going here. I'm creating new historical replays using OOTP's own historical game creation wizard, with neutralized stats and real minors turned on. I'm choosing the year from OOTP's own menus.

When creating a new saved game using the wizard, the game does not always import or create the same modifiers for the selected year. It sets different modifiers at times, which makes no sense. They should always be the same numbers when the saved game is first created and before a single game has been simmed.

Regardless, once OOTP has created the new game and I click the Continue button to actually advance and begin the season, it calculates the modifiers again and seems to use entirely random numbers. They are different every time. I have repeated this again and again with new saved game files, and I submitted video to show it happening live.

When using the menu in an attempt to re-import the correct settings, it does the same thing. Sometimes it seems to import or calculate a common set of numbers for the season in question. At other times, it imports or calculates random numbers.

In either case, once you click Continue and advance the sim, it calculates league totals and modifiers again, and it creates a random set of numbers, some of which can be extreme, and not just in a single case. I've seen OOTP calculate and create an extreme number for a particular stat or category multiple times.

Even if I use the menu to re-import from the same historical season, the results are still sometimes random, and certain modifiers are occasionally extreme.

So it's very clear that something is seriously wrong here, especially since I'm not doing anything other than using the historical wizard and setting the recalc period, the type of stats used, and how potential and ratings are calculated. I have never touched anything related to league totals or modifiers in the creation process.

[actionjackson]

Long story short, ignore the modifiers. Focus on the league wide stats results you get, when you check them out, at the end of the year. If they're reasonably close, then you know the modifiers did their job, regardless of how crazy they look.

Here are my league totals from 1907 (remember, they should resemble the actual 1984 MLB totals, because that's the year my stats output is based on), in my latest Random Debut Historical. I play 162 games every season, too. Back then, there were only 16 teams, which differs from the RL number of 26 in 1984, so I'll average them out per team. My game vs RL (1984):

6215 PA (6176)

5586 AB (5532)

686 R (689)

1428 H (1438)

239 2B (239)

39 3B (38)

124 HR (125)

650 RBI (645)

504 BB (512)

890 K (865)

23 HBP (26)

46 SH (55)

54 SF (49)

113 SB (117)

52 CS (58)

.256/.317/.379/.696 (.260/.323/.385/.708)

4.23 R/G (4.26)

3.77 ERA (3.81)

38 SV (38)

1458.0 IP (1450)

610 ER (613)

43 WP (43)

12 BK (11)

22 CG (24)

10 SHO (10)

.282 BABIP (.286)

13122 DefInn (13051)

6148 TC (6250)

4374 PO (4351)

1649 A (1763)

134 DP (150)

125 E (136)

.980 FPct (.978)

.700 DEF (Defensive Efficiency) (.699)

That's pretty damn good, right there. Allows room for variance, due to pitching or batting being stronger in certain years, but I don't think you can ask for much more than that. There is a method to the madness of those crazy looking LTMs, so ignore them, and look at your year over year league totals that the modifiers are guiding your game to. Don't try to make sense of them. Let them do their job.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

I beg to differ, and this has been reported, documented with numerous saved game test files, and I've provided OOTP Developments with multiple save files and a video to show the sim's behavior.

First, let's be clear on what I'm going here. I'm creating new historical replays using OOTP's own historical game creation wizard, with neutralized stats and real minors turned on. I'm choosing the year from OOTP's own menus.

When creating a new saved game using the wizard, the game does not always import or create the same modifiers for the selected year. It sets different modifiers at times, which makes no sense. They should always be the same numbers when the saved game is first created and before a single game has been simmed.

Regardless, once OOTP has created the new game and I click the Continue button to actually advance and begin the season, it calculates the modifiers again and seems to use entirely random numbers. They are different every time. I have repeated this again and again with new saved game files, and I submitted video to show it happening live.

When using the menu in an attempt to re-import the correct settings, it does the same thing. Sometimes it seems to import or calculate a common set of numbers for the season in question. At other times, it imports or calculates random numbers.

In either case, once you click Continue and advance the sim, it calculates league totals and modifiers again, and it creates a random set of numbers, some of which can be extreme, and not just in a single case. I've seen OOTP calculate and create an extreme number for a particular stat or category multiple times.

Even if I use the menu to re-import from the same historical season, the results are still sometimes random, and certain modifiers are occasionally extreme.

So it's very clear that something is seriously wrong here, especially since I'm not doing anything other than using the historical wizard and setting the recalc period, the type of stats used, and how potential and ratings are calculated. I have never touched anything related to league totals or modifiers in the creation process.

See my breakdown of my season totals from my HRD upthread. Your output stats at the end of the season are all that matters. The strange looking modifiers that get you there, are just the vehicle to arrive at the stats you want. I know it looks bizarre when you look at the wacky looking modifiers, but trust me, it works. I'm a real stickler for controlling the offensive environment in all my games, and I've never seen it done any better than OOTP does it. I'd be right there with you, if it didn't.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by kq76

I don't play historical so I'm only hazarding a guess here, but I don't think the game is really meant to import the actual numbers from the file. Obviously there must be a purpose to them, otherwise why have them, but seeing as how running auto-calc multiple times will give you different numbers, I think it's only meant to give you numbers close to, or maybe only modified by, that set of numbers while comparing your league's ratings to its totals.

Your other thread mentioned a modifier of 5 something for sac bunts. I see above you have the 1979 totals, haven't pressed auto-calc, and have a 1 for sac bunts. I tested a 1979 file (I don't know your exact settings, but...), pressed auto-calc three times and got 2.019, 2.163, 2.323, and I'm sure more presses would just result in more 2s. And while 2s, it would seem, are still a bit on the high side, they're nowhere near the 5 you got. I wouldn't be shocked by 2s, but I would be by a 5, so I don't know what was with that lg of yours. If it was a league you had run for multiple years and let the development engine do whatever it wanted, maybe sac bunt ratings got out whack with you'd see from a freshly created 1979 league, and then the 5 was generated only to try to get it back in line?

Did you also tweak the left side of the screen's General Strategic Tendencies in that league? That could throw off your modifiers too. For instance, as a test I set bunting to Very Rarely (from Often) then pressed auto-calc again and the modifier changed to 7.621! In the past I've sometimes found GST settings completely contrary to what I'd expect for the year and so I changed them, but I'm not sure why they're there as modifiers and them seem to control the same thing. Only modifiers seem to allow you to get closer to what you want so maybe don't change the GSTs.

Well lookey, lookey. A Canadian talkin' about the GST. Hope you didn't get dumped on by the snow today. Not sure it hit Vancouver, but it looked nasty.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Long story short, ignore the modifiers. Focus on the league wide stats results you get, when you check them out, at the end of the year. If they're reasonably close, then you know the modifiers did their job, regardless of how crazy they look.

That's the issue. With these random and extreme modifiers that OOTP either calculates when it first creates the game or re-calculates as the first season begins, completely skewed things are happening.

For example, the game set sac bunts at 5.556 when it re-calculated the modifiers when I advanced from initial creation to the first game of the first season (it has set a number above 5 more than once in my saves, all for the exact same historical season).

In the first instance, where I actually simmed nearly 100 games of the season, not one sacrifice bunt attempt that was actually put into the field of play ever failed, and not one catcher ever threw to second in an attempt to throw out the runner moving from first. Not once. Ever. But as soon as I re-imported the modifier to a sane number, the very next sac bunt attempt failed, and failures have been happening with some regularity since then, as you would expect. It was a complete night-and-day difference.

If gameplay were unaffected or functioning as normal, that would be one thing. But that's not what's happening, depending on which numbers get imported or re-calculated. The numbers are all over the place, and this is all happening when I finish creating the save and then I click Continue to simply start the season. Once it creates those random and sometimes bizarre numbers, it uses them all season, and if a certain modifier is really extreme, it has a major impact on stats and play outcomes.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Long story short, ignore the modifiers. Focus on the league wide stats results you get, when you check them out, at the end of the year. If they're reasonably close, then you know the modifiers did their job, regardless of how crazy they look.

What you say is true of course, but his totals were off and he found out his modifiers were far from 1 which made him think the modifiers were causing it. I don't know how he's getting modifiers that are so off, but I do think there's something he's doing that's causing them to change so much.

Charlie, if I were you I'd test it by starting a new league changing as few options as possible from the defaults at first (don't use the wizard) and then after each change you do make, check to see if that changes the modifiers.

I think you are correct the modifiers are causing what you're seeing, but the difference is I don't think the problem starts with the modifiers as you seem to think. Something is causing them to change like my GST example above.

[Garlon]

This is quite possibly his setup for the league. There are minor leagues and probably recalc is disabled so the game is using the development engine and then there is talent change randomness settings and development settings. The player ratings are probably changing to all of these things each time he sets up the league so when the game dynamically tests before the season begins it is faced with many random variables for that test. Player ratings are probably significantly different at the end of the season every time he okays the season. The game accounts for all of this as per the setup but when you do this the minor leagues alone will give you a ton more players who could develop and make the mlb teams during the season and thus puts way more ray ok bet in the league than there was historically and then throw in talent changes and you will get very different modifiers. Those random variables the game gets during the test to generate the modifiers will not necessarily be replicated the same way during the actual season.

[Garlon]

If the sac bunting modifier is spiking it is probably because it is fighting with the strategy setting, which is too low. Try putting Sac Bunting to Very Often.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by kq76

What you say is true of course, but his totals were off and he found out his modifiers were far from 1 which made him think the modifiers were causing it. I don't know how he's getting modifiers that are so off, but I do think there's something he's doing that's causing them to change so much.

Charlie, if I were you I'd test it by starting a new league changing as few options as possible from the defaults at first (don't use the wizard) and then after each change you do make, check to see if that changes the modifiers.

I think you are correct the modifiers are causing what you're seeing, but the difference is I don't think the problem starts with the modifiers as you seem to think. Something is causing them to change like my GST example above.

Is Auto-Calc still a thing? I got some really weird modifiers with that, when I briefly fiddled around with it. Since then, I've stuck with selecting the year I want my stats to be based on, a day before the regular season. Works a charm for me.

I wish we could find something that works for you, Charlie. There could be something somewhere in your settings, like kq said, as well.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by Garlon

This is quite possibly his setup for the league. There are minor leagues and probably recalc is disabled so the game is using the development engine and then there is talent change randomness settings and development settings. The player ratings are probably changing to all of these things each time he sets up the league so when the game dynamically tests before the season begins it is faced with many random variables for that test.

No, all of this originally happened using the game's default single-season replay settings, where it's strictly 1-year recalc with development turned off.

It happens immediately at the start when absolutely nothing has happened yet in the sim. All I've done is create the game and then click Continue to advance one day.

In other sims where I've tested this with development turned on, no games have been simmed, and there have been no ratings changes, no talent updates, and no development yet. It's happening right at the start, before the first season can even begin.

It's also not a temporary test by the sim because OOTP calculates these random modifiers and then uses them for the entire season. It does not change them at any point throughout the season after it does this initial calculation.

This affects all modifier categories, with complete randomness for the exact same historical season created with identical settings. And I've now confirmed that this happens whether you're using historical minors or not. I just created a 1979 sim where most teams have only a handful of players assigned to the minors, and the teams with the most minor leaguers have maybe 10 to 15 at the most. So it can't be an issue of players in the minors somehow causing this.

Whatever this is, it's not acceptable because it's already proven to dramatically skew play outcomes and statistical output. Also, since the modifiers end up being random, and the numbers vary wildly from instance to instance, it's not as simple as tweaking one category or setting. It's a complete mess.

[Rain King]

Charlie, have you seen this issue when starting in a year other than 1979?

I started some test seasons and for 1979, just as you are describing, I am seeing the Sac Bunts modifier go up over 4 or 5 on Opening Day when the modifiers get calculated. This happened both with and without real minors.

However, I tested a few other years and always got much more reasonable Sac Bunt modifiers.

I am wondering if there is something wonky going on specifically with that year.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Is Auto-Calc still a thing? I got some really weird modifiers with that, when I briefly fiddled around with it. Since then, I've stuck with selecting the year I want my stats to be based on, a day before the regular season. Works a charm for me.

It depends on what you want to do and how you want to do it. It sounds like you want to get as close to the very specific numbers a certain year in history had and that's all. In that situation, you shouldn't use auto-calc as it's going to make your numbers diverge from what you want.

Some people, like myself, however, want a certain run environment, but we want some randomness to it. For example, I've created a RE based on very specific ratios, a blend of a few years, not any specific year, but I don't want every season's totals to be nearly identical. Auto-calc is great for that.

I only brought it up, however, because I was trying to see how Charlie might have been getting such weird modifiers. Who knows how he might be getting what he's getting. I wouldn't want OOTP's customizability to ever change, but with that customizability comes increased troubleshooting difficulty.

Who here is considered the foremost expert on historical sims? Maybe send them a PM and ask them to take a look at your threads, Charlie.

[Garlon]

The game will always generate values based on a test sample. The values in the modifier file are averaged from some hundred or thousand trials of each season. However, any time something is adjusted in the game engine those files become relatively obsolete. Again, those files are really for exhibition games from the main menu. You should not ever need to press the auto calculate modifier button because the game will adjust the modifiers appropriately before opening day. It may be this stacking of calculations that is resulting in the strange values.

[Rain King]

When I recreated the issue Charlie is describing I did not use the Auto Calc button, I only allowed the game to progress to Opening Day. This was for 1979. The Sac Bunt modifier was over 4 in one try and well over 5 in another.

I tried a couple other years and got a number that was well under or around 2 each time.

So, my question would be whether it is possible for there to be an issue for just one (or potentially a few) years while others are fine.

[Garlon]

Try setting sac bunting to Often or Very Often in the strategy settings before letting the game calculate the modifiers. Do not let OOTP select the strategy settings.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by Garlon

Try setting sac bunting to Often or Very Often in the strategy settings before letting the game calculate the modifiers. Do not let OOTP select the strategy settings.

I did check that setting (it was set to Often), but after the game had adjusted the modifiers. I can test again with setting that ahead of time...but that probably isn't something that users should generally be expected to do to get acceptable modifiers.