Pitcher usages: Starter/reliever stamina and recovery

jberg57 · 08-10-2023, 05:26 PM

As a former pitcher there are many things I'd like to see enhanced regarding pitcher recovery and build-up.

Starters are conditioned to throw multiple innings and throw over 100 pitches. They just don't wake up and throw complete games. For this reason the stamina bar should be variable. If Pitcher A has 35 stamina, but you start him in Spring Training (mostly MLB but this is basically what teams do in real life - stretch out their starters) and for then continue to start over the whole season, his stamina should rise as long as he makes starts and eventually hit his peak. Now, that doesn't mean by starting Aroldis Chapman he's be throwing 105mph after 8 innings! Each pitcher should have their own individual cap. On the flip side, if you take a guy with 75 stamina and throw him in at closer, he should eventually decrease to 15-20 stamina and have to build back up. Essentially preventing a pitcher to just jump from Starter to Closer and vice versa. There should be a ratings effect based on which position that player is geared to or career adjusts to. I feel like the game is so quick to give a rating when you take an average starter and put him in relief, he gets a small bump in "Stuff" rating effectively making him a "better" reliever. This is not always the case in real life. Some guys are grinders and need innings to maximize their abilities over several innings. Other guys might get roughed up after the 2nd time through the order. This is usually based on how many pitches a guy has. Most reliever have 2 solid pitches, maybe a 3rd. Starters have to change up their speeds and locate a bit better and often have 3-5 pitches.

The Stamina bar should resemble pitch count. It makes too much sense to have a starter stamina at 100 (for 100 pitches) and know about how long a guy can go. Closer who has 25 stamina/pitches is gonna break down if you use him too long - just as it is in MLB.

Another thing I've wanted to change is recovery. This needs to be a variable as well right next to Stamina and Holding Runners. If a guy is super durable, he should be able to go 2-3 or even 4 days in a row. We called these guys rubber arms or bulldogs, guys who grit it out for the team. Closers (usually) have to be ready to go all the time - they're paid the big bucks to lock down games of importance. I hate seeing 5 guys get saves and then see my closer mop up the 9th inning of an 8-2 ballgame. Closer needs to be durable and reliable. If he can't then he might not be a closer for you, but still be able to contribute as a setup guy or Hi Leverage reliever. Sometimes a pitcher might need more rest and not be able to go in back-to-back games. This is something that would be more apparent when a starter goes in relief. He isn't used to the arm strain that comes with pitching multiple days.

Bottom line, this would prevent a lot of randomness and categorically define what pitchers roles are - or have the potential to be.

Rain King · 08-10-2023, 06:07 PM

Yes, the variable stamina IMO is the next big step OOTP should make.

I do feel, though, that having the AI be able to handle this well is going to be a huge hurdle.

jberg57 · 08-10-2023, 06:17 PM

I'm not so sure, the AI already plays fielders at different positions to get in the lineup and they get better at those positions. It would be interesting to see though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain King

Yes, the variable stamina IMO is the next big step OOTP should make.

I do feel, though, that having the AI be able to handle this well is going to be a huge hurdle.

Rain King · 08-10-2023, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jberg57

I'm not so sure, the AI already plays fielders at different positions to get in the lineup and they get better at those positions. It would be interesting to see though.

I'm not so much worried about the AI understanding which role the pitcher fits and making that decision, but on how it will handle the transition.

Will it set up the roster to make sure it can cover a starter that is likely to only go 3 or 4 innings as they stretch out or maybe send a younger guy down to AAA for that "stretching out" period?

jberg57 · 08-10-2023, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain King

I'm not so much worried about the AI understanding which role the pitcher fits and making that decision, but on how it will handle the transition.

Will it set up the roster to make sure it can cover a starter that is likely to only go 3 or 4 innings as they stretch out or maybe send a younger guy down to AAA for that "stretching out" period?

I understand what you're saying. We still have high rated guys performing well...then they get waived or released or allowed to be Rule 5'd

SWAVcast · 09-27-2023, 07:28 PM

I'm going to add to this. It's the feature I want the most.

An SP gets demoted to an RP and shouldn't suffer the same consequences as a regular reliever with regard to how many pitches they can throw.

We need a middle-ground on the recovery system as well to match.

08-10-2023, 05:26 PM	#1
jberg57 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 95	Pitcher usages: Starter/reliever stamina and recovery As a former pitcher there are many things I'd like to see enhanced regarding pitcher recovery and build-up. Starters are conditioned to throw multiple innings and throw over 100 pitches. They just don't wake up and throw complete games. For this reason the stamina bar should be variable. If Pitcher A has 35 stamina, but you start him in Spring Training (mostly MLB but this is basically what teams do in real life - stretch out their starters) and for then continue to start over the whole season, his stamina should rise as long as he makes starts and eventually hit his peak. Now, that doesn't mean by starting Aroldis Chapman he's be throwing 105mph after 8 innings! Each pitcher should have their own individual cap. On the flip side, if you take a guy with 75 stamina and throw him in at closer, he should eventually decrease to 15-20 stamina and have to build back up. Essentially preventing a pitcher to just jump from Starter to Closer and vice versa. There should be a ratings effect based on which position that player is geared to or career adjusts to. I feel like the game is so quick to give a rating when you take an average starter and put him in relief, he gets a small bump in "Stuff" rating effectively making him a "better" reliever. This is not always the case in real life. Some guys are grinders and need innings to maximize their abilities over several innings. Other guys might get roughed up after the 2nd time through the order. This is usually based on how many pitches a guy has. Most reliever have 2 solid pitches, maybe a 3rd. Starters have to change up their speeds and locate a bit better and often have 3-5 pitches. The Stamina bar should resemble pitch count. It makes too much sense to have a starter stamina at 100 (for 100 pitches) and know about how long a guy can go. Closer who has 25 stamina/pitches is gonna break down if you use him too long - just as it is in MLB. Another thing I've wanted to change is recovery. This needs to be a variable as well right next to Stamina and Holding Runners. If a guy is super durable, he should be able to go 2-3 or even 4 days in a row. We called these guys rubber arms or bulldogs, guys who grit it out for the team. Closers (usually) have to be ready to go all the time - they're paid the big bucks to lock down games of importance. I hate seeing 5 guys get saves and then see my closer mop up the 9th inning of an 8-2 ballgame. Closer needs to be durable and reliable. If he can't then he might not be a closer for you, but still be able to contribute as a setup guy or Hi Leverage reliever. Sometimes a pitcher might need more rest and not be able to go in back-to-back games. This is something that would be more apparent when a starter goes in relief. He isn't used to the arm strain that comes with pitching multiple days. Bottom line, this would prevent a lot of randomness and categorically define what pitchers roles are - or have the potential to be. Last edited by jberg57; 08-10-2023 at 05:29 PM.

09-27-2023, 07:28 PM	#6
SWAVcast Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2022 Location: andjbock Posts: 60	I'm going to add to this. It's the feature I want the most. An SP gets demoted to an RP and shouldn't suffer the same consequences as a regular reliever with regard to how many pitches they can throw. We need a middle-ground on the recovery system as well to match. __________________ Motion Picture League Baseball - watch on twitch

08-10-2023, 06:07 PM	#2
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,936	Yes, the variable stamina IMO is the next big step OOTP should make. I do feel, though, that having the AI be able to handle this well is going to be a huge hurdle.