FHM9 - Game adding players

laving39 · 10-24-2023, 11:18 PM

Online league
Custom mode

Day after the Expansion Draft, the game as added like 13 players to the Expansion Teams. These players were not picked in the Expansion Draft, and they were not signed by the GMs.

Same thing happened one day after the initial Fantast Draft, but that time it was just a few players.

What all these players have in common, is that they are rubbish, and gets at least 2 years on their contracts.

I would guess that the game does this to make sure the teams have enough players. But common. 1 day after the Expansion Draft? It completely ruins the flexibility for the GMs.

This also has to be fixed!

laving39 · 10-25-2023, 12:08 AM

Just realized that the way the game did this, was by adding an extra round to the Expansion Draft, and picking 13 players each for the expansion teams in that round.

So now I have to manually change those players back to their original teams.

laving39 · 10-25-2023, 12:49 AM

This is the same thing that happened with the Fantasy Draft. The game added an extra round afterwards, and picked extra players for the teams. Something is fundamentally wrong here.

Castleview · 10-25-2023, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laving39

Just realized that the way the game did this, was by adding an extra round to the Expansion Draft, and picking 13 players each for the expansion teams in that round.

So now I have to manually change those players back to their original teams.

I've previously reported this issue with the expansion draft adding an extra round when teams haven't filled their 'max players lost' quota, but until now it seemed like it was unique to me as nobody could reproduce it.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=348960

Edit: just noticed you'd mentioned having issue in Fantasy Draft previously....

laving39 · 10-25-2023, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castleview

I've previously reported this issue with the expansion draft adding an extra round when teams haven't filled their 'max players lost' quota, but until now it seemed like it was unique to me as nobody could reproduce it.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=348960

Edit: just noticed you'd mentioned having issue in Fantasy Draft previously....

We filled every teams max players lost quota. Not according to the game, but it was set to 3, and all teams lost 3 players. But what I think happened in my case, is that there is something fundamentally wrong with the player rights. Because:

* During the Expansion Draft, in the bottom half of the Expansion Draft view, "Old Team" was left blank after a player were picked.
* During the Expansion Draft, when a team had their max players lost quota filled, the rest of their players were not made unavailable for the draft.
* I had 13 rounds in my Expansion Draft (with 3 Expansion Teams). In the 14th round that the game created afterwards, "Old Team" was suddenly filled, and the game added exactly 13 players to each Expansion Team.
* During the Expansion Draft, all the players that were available had their rights set to "free" (or what ever it was). I discovered this when trying to make a filtered search for available players from a specific team, to make it easier for my GMs to see which players were actually available.
* The bug I reported about the 17 year olds that were available to sign as free agents, despite that minimum draft age is set to 19, were explained to me as there were something odd with the rights.

laving39 · 10-25-2023, 08:50 PM

Yeah. Yet another issue with the rights:

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=349979

laving39 · 10-25-2023, 09:16 PM

Wouldn't you know it!

So, I manually moved back the players from the extra round to the teams where they belong. Sim on day ahead. And the game ADDED THEM BACK AGAIN to the expansion teams!

What do I have to do to get an answer from ANYONE, ANYWHERE, that works on this game???

JeffR · 10-25-2023, 11:32 PM

As Casteview said, we've had occasional reports of this but haven't been able to successfully replicate it. It sounds like it's something that's caused by a specific league configuration, so having the save to look at would be helpful in tracking it down.

laving39 · 10-26-2023, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffR

As Casteview said, we've had occasional reports of this but haven't been able to successfully replicate it. It sounds like it's something that's caused by a specific league configuration, so having the save to look at would be helpful in tracking it down.

I have one backup from july 1st, july 2nd, july 3rd, and july 4th. I'll upload them all. That way you can both reproduce the issues and see what things look like after the issues occured.

* The game is still making 17 year olds available as free agents, even though our minimum draft age is set to 19.

* The max players lost quota basically has no effect in the expansion draft. It is set to 3 for this draft, but players does not get unavailable if their team loses 3 players.

* The expansion draft adds an extra round, drafting the same amount of players extra as the original expansion draft. You have to sim to july 3rd to experience this (using a backup from either july 1st or july 2nd). I'm assuming this is because the rights are set to "free" for the available players during the expansion draft, since the Expansion Draft View does not show old team. My guess is that the game don't count players as lost if it does not say "old team" in the bottom half of the Expansion Draft View, and therefor "fills out" the expansion draft afterwards. Picking apart the 14th round suggests this, all teams looses 3 extra players, and all expansion teams picks 13 extra players. A copy of the draft settings.

Castleview mentioned that this could happen when you don't fill the max players lost quota. In this case this seems to be technically true even though we did fill the quota, since the game does not register old team during the draft, but the 14th round does register old team and picks the exact same amount of players as the real draft.

If you can't replicate this, try to pick players manually. I don't know. If it's a league setting issue, it's in these files. Tell me if you need me to remember what settings I used to start the league.

* Try to manually switch back the players from the 14th round to their original teams on july 3rd (probably using the backup from july 2nd) and sim to july 4. For me, they were back with the expansion teams again on july 4th. I guess the lazy version of reproducing this would be to open the backup from july 3rd, notice that players from the 14th round are in the right teams (their old teams), sim to july 4th, and see them in the expansion teams.

* Check out the trades including J. Wall on july 1st between Rostov Travellers and expansion team Mexicali Sombreros, and including J. Dampier on july 3rd between St Johns Icebergs and San Diego Riptide. If you watch these trades on the july 3rd backup, and then simulate to july 4th, these two players will end up back with their old team (but have the rights set to their new team, just like the extra expansion draft players). With the trade on july 1st, you will see the same problem already from july 1st, simming to july 2nd.

Should be mentioned though that I believe these two players where originally available for the expansion draft. If I remember it correctly, I received Rostov Travellers protection list (making J. Wall available for the draft) before I completed that trade.

Notice that J. Wall was traded to an expansion team the day before the expansion draft, but probably after the player were made available to the expansion draft by his old team. There is another similar trade like this one. L. Kirk was traded from Gothenburg Lions to the expansion team Mexicali Sombreros on july 1st, but L. Kirk was never an issue. I think that trade were completed before Gothenburg submitted their protection list.

The trade issues could very well just be the expansion draft, and not the trades itself.

Zip-file including all 4 backups is called Global Hockey League EXP.zip

Commish password will be sent in a moment.

JeffR · 10-27-2023, 06:32 AM

OK, some progress: I was finally able to replicate the extra picks it by doing all the picks manually. If I use the AI or just advance past the draft, it works fine. So it may be something with the way the draft is terminating if all the picks (or maybe just the last one) are made manually. I'm going to have to have the guys take a much closer look to find out.

The traded players are available in the draft because they're still on the exposed list of their previous team. That's expected, you can't remove a player from that list via a trade. Them being taken is probably unrelated to the extra picks, but I'm not 100% certain; if they are, we'll know when we check the draft.

The 17-year-olds are being generated by a league that does not have a junior league and draft attached to it. It looks like your Zamboni League is set up like that. It'll create new 17-year-olds as free agents at the appropriate potential level for the league, so for that one they'll max out at the 2-star level you're seeing.

laving39 · 10-27-2023, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffR

The 17-year-olds are being generated by a league that does not have a junior league and draft attached to it. It looks like your Zamboni League is set up like that. It'll create new 17-year-olds as free agents at the appropriate potential level for the league, so for that one they'll max out at the 2-star level you're seeing.

The Zamboni League is a Farm League. Are you sure it's the Zamboni League? I have 8 other leagues that does not have a junior league attached to them.

JeffR · 10-27-2023, 11:59 PM

Yeah, you're right, it's set as a farm league so no player generation there - it'll be from those other leagues.

laving39 · 10-28-2023, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffR

Yeah, you're right, it's set as a farm league so no player generation there - it'll be from those other leagues.

Okay. Do the other leagues need both a junior league and a draft to avoid this? Or is it enough with just one of the two?

laving39 · 10-29-2023, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffR

Yeah, you're right, it's set as a farm league so no player generation there - it'll be from those other leagues.

Since it's not possible to move players, I've paused the league. Is there any chance that the july 4th files can get fixed? Or should I re-start my league from july 1st? Guys are waiting.

JeffR · 10-30-2023, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laving39

Okay. Do the other leagues need both a junior league and a draft to avoid this? Or is it enough with just one of the two?

All of them would need one - if any don't, you'll get those players. But since there's a fairly limited number of them that would have enough potential for the top league, it might be easier to just manually edit the rights of the better players in the top league to "None", which will keep them unsignable until they're the right age for the main league's draft.

JeffR · 10-30-2023, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laving39

Since it's not possible to move players, I've paused the league. Is there any chance that the july 4th files can get fixed? Or should I re-start my league from july 1st? Guys are waiting.

You'll get the same thing if you re-start from the 1st, you would need to let the AI make all the picks to avoid it. That may be the best option, I'm not sure how long it'll take to fix this.

laving39 · 10-30-2023, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffR

You'll get the same thing if you re-start from the 1st, you would need to let the AI make all the picks to avoid it. That may be the best option, I'm not sure how long it'll take to fix this.

To fix it "here and now", to be able to move on with the save file, I should be able to restart from july 1st, and simply just don't have an Expansion Draft, but rather trade the selected players to the Expansion Teams, right? That should solve the biggest issue for now?

laving39 · 11-01-2023, 06:51 PM

Okay, so. I've decided to try to go back to july 1st, delete the expansion draft and redo the expansion draft via trades instead, and sim back to our "current" date july 4th using the Team Files that the GMs submitted during these days.

This is quite interesting. I get to july 2nd on the new save file, and import team files from july 2nd from the old save file. One of the expansion teams submitted a team file on "the old" july 2nd, after the expansion draft was done. Now, on the new save file, importing this team file, it moves the players he selected in the old expansion draft to his team on the new save file.

I understand that I'm not supposed to use old team files this way, but I'm trying to save the coolest and most unique online league there is.

JeffR · 11-02-2023, 11:04 AM

That may work, but it'll probably be safer if we take your post-draft July 2 save and make a change so the extra round can't happen. We're still not sure exactly how it's happening (the draft's not terminating properly for some reason) but we can change the data internally so the extra rounds don't get triggered. I'll ask Malte to do that and will get you a fixed version.

laving39 · 11-02-2023, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffR

That may work, but it'll probably be safer if we take your post-draft July 2 save and make a change so the extra round can't happen. We're still not sure exactly how it's happening (the draft's not terminating properly for some reason) but we can change the data internally so the extra rounds don't get triggered. I'll ask Malte to do that and will get you a fixed version.

That's awesome.

The thing is that in order to not kill the league, we have to start running again. It looks like my little experiment will work (I will have a final answer to that in a few hours).

Would there instead be a way to make sure it doesn't happen in the future? I don't know, like a patch or having the issue fixed to FHM10? Or is it more about fixing my save file only?

10-24-2023, 11:18 PM	#1
laving39 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 86	FHM9 - Game adding players Online league Custom mode Day after the Expansion Draft, the game as added like 13 players to the Expansion Teams. These players were not picked in the Expansion Draft, and they were not signed by the GMs. Same thing happened one day after the initial Fantast Draft, but that time it was just a few players. What all these players have in common, is that they are rubbish, and gets at least 2 years on their contracts. I would guess that the game does this to make sure the teams have enough players. But common. 1 day after the Expansion Draft? It completely ruins the flexibility for the GMs. This also has to be fixed!

10-25-2023, 12:08 AM	#2
laving39 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 86	Just realized that the way the game did this, was by adding an extra round to the Expansion Draft, and picking 13 players each for the expansion teams in that round. So now I have to manually change those players back to their original teams.

10-25-2023, 12:49 AM	#3
laving39 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 86	This is the same thing that happened with the Fantasy Draft. The game added an extra round afterwards, and picked extra players for the teams. Something is fundamentally wrong here.

10-25-2023, 08:50 PM	#6
laving39 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 86	Yeah. Yet another issue with the rights: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=349979

10-25-2023, 09:16 PM	#7
laving39 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 86	Wouldn't you know it! So, I manually moved back the players from the extra round to the teams where they belong. Sim on day ahead. And the game ADDED THEM BACK AGAIN to the expansion teams! What do I have to do to get an answer from ANYONE, ANYWHERE, that works on this game???

10-25-2023, 11:32 PM	#8
JeffR FHM Producer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Kelowna, BC Posts: 17,242	As Casteview said, we've had occasional reports of this but haven't been able to successfully replicate it. It sounds like it's something that's caused by a specific league configuration, so having the save to look at would be helpful in tracking it down.

10-27-2023, 06:32 AM	#10
JeffR FHM Producer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Kelowna, BC Posts: 17,242	OK, some progress: I was finally able to replicate the extra picks it by doing all the picks manually. If I use the AI or just advance past the draft, it works fine. So it may be something with the way the draft is terminating if all the picks (or maybe just the last one) are made manually. I'm going to have to have the guys take a much closer look to find out. The traded players are available in the draft because they're still on the exposed list of their previous team. That's expected, you can't remove a player from that list via a trade. Them being taken is probably unrelated to the extra picks, but I'm not 100% certain; if they are, we'll know when we check the draft. The 17-year-olds are being generated by a league that does not have a junior league and draft attached to it. It looks like your Zamboni League is set up like that. It'll create new 17-year-olds as free agents at the appropriate potential level for the league, so for that one they'll max out at the 2-star level you're seeing.

10-27-2023, 11:59 PM	#12
JeffR FHM Producer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Kelowna, BC Posts: 17,242	Yeah, you're right, it's set as a farm league so no player generation there - it'll be from those other leagues.

11-01-2023, 06:51 PM	#18
laving39 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 86	Okay, so. I've decided to try to go back to july 1st, delete the expansion draft and redo the expansion draft via trades instead, and sim back to our "current" date july 4th using the Team Files that the GMs submitted during these days. This is quite interesting. I get to july 2nd on the new save file, and import team files from july 2nd from the old save file. One of the expansion teams submitted a team file on "the old" july 2nd, after the expansion draft was done. Now, on the new save file, importing this team file, it moves the players he selected in the old expansion draft to his team on the new save file. I understand that I'm not supposed to use old team files this way, but I'm trying to save the coolest and most unique online league there is.

11-02-2023, 11:04 AM	#19
JeffR FHM Producer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Kelowna, BC Posts: 17,242	That may work, but it'll probably be safer if we take your post-draft July 2 save and make a change so the extra round can't happen. We're still not sure exactly how it's happening (the draft's not terminating properly for some reason) but we can change the data internally so the extra rounds don't get triggered. I'll ask Malte to do that and will get you a fixed version.